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Dadawg_77
03-03-2003, 11:27 PM
Just finished reading Will Carroll and Dr William Carroll's article in Baseball Prospectus 2003 and also Will Carroll's new article on BP.com. I would link it, but it is premium content.

In the article in the book he talks about SLAP Lesion (Superior Labrum Anterior Posterior) injury ot a torn labrum. One thing that is said in the book is there are not to many people who return from this injury unlike Tommy John surgery. In today's article, Will reports that Jon Rauch does not look good, with no velocity, which commonly doesn't return after this injury.

So, I hoping with some of the smartest baseball fans out there, that we would have a doctor who could confirm, deny this and/or go into more in depth on what to expect from Jon and other who suffer this injury?

jeremyb1
03-04-2003, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Just finished reading Will Carroll and Dr William Carroll's article in Baseball Prospectus 2003 and also Will Carroll's new article on BP.com. I would link it, but it is premium content.

In the article in the book he talks about SLAP Lesion (Superior Labrum Anterior Posterior) injury ot a torn labrum. One thing that is said in the book is there are not to many people who return from this injury unlike Tommy John surgery. In today's article, Will reports that Jon Rauch does not look good, with no velocity, which commonly doesn't return after this injury.

So, I hoping with some of the smartest baseball fans out there, that we would have a doctor who could confirm, deny this and/or go into more in depth on what to expect from Jon and other who suffer this injury?

what time period is carroll refering to when he claims rauch's velocity does not look good? at the end of last season he was hitting 92-93 with regularity which is only 2-3 mph below his velocity at the most.

Dadawg_77
03-04-2003, 10:11 AM
Spring training. Not regaining all of your velocity is a standard of SLAP injuries, so it something to think about.

FanOf14
03-04-2003, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
what time period is carroll refering to when he claims rauch's velocity does not look good? at the end of last season he was hitting 92-93 with regularity which is only 2-3 mph below his velocity at the most.

I was just thinking the same thing. After he was given a chance to heal and work it out, he wasn't all that bad. Will he be what he was pre-surgery, I guess we'll find out soon enough... 4.50 isn't all that bad for Arizona, is it? Then again, it was only 2 innings (per MLB.com) and the run was a homer...I am not too worried about him yet...

Pete_SSAC
03-04-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by FanOf14
I was just thinking the same thing. After he was given a chance to heal and work it out, he wasn't all that bad. Will he be what he was pre-surgery, I guess we'll find out soon enough... 4.50 isn't all that bad for Arizona, is it? Then again, it was only 2 innings (per MLB.com) and the run was a homer...I am not too worried about him yet...

Also, the homer was hit by Gonzo and barely made it over the 345 mark, which would be a fly out in most parks.

- Pete

fsphog
03-04-2003, 08:28 PM
from what ive seen so far this spring, rauch has looked pretty sharp. his command is a little rusty, but that will come. the homer by gonzo was a curveball lifted off the dirt that the wind blew over the right field wall (just barely). It seems that rauch is having no ill affects from the injury. and as jeremy said - at the end of last year he was throwing 92-93, and on tv he was topping out at 95, which seems to be at par with his 2000 season.

Daver
03-04-2003, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by fsphog
from what ive seen so far this spring, rauch has looked pretty sharp. his command is a little rusty, but that will come. the homer by gonzo was a curveball lifted off the dirt that the wind blew over the right field wall (just barely). It seems that rauch is having no ill affects from the injury. and as jeremy said - at the end of last year he was throwing 92-93, and on tv he was topping out at 95, which seems to be at par with his 2000 season.

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

jeremyb1
03-04-2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by daver
Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

i think that's really irresponsible if he's assessing rauch's health based on one two inning long spring training appearance. that's pretty convinient to toss aside the last couple months of last season in favor of one spring outing. since when are pitchers expected to light up the gun at the beginning of the spring anyways? furthermore i'd love to know the source of the info about rauch's velocity. bp isn't known for field reporting. caroll isn't in arizona is he? i hadn't heard any reports of rauch's velocity so far this spring in the major newspapers.

Dadawg_77
03-05-2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i think that's really irresponsible if he's assessing rauch's health based on one two inning long spring training appearance. that's pretty convinient to toss aside the last couple months of last season in favor of one spring outing. since when are pitchers expected to light up the gun at the beginning of the spring anyways? furthermore i'd love to know the source of the info about rauch's velocity. bp isn't known for field reporting. caroll isn't in arizona is he? i hadn't heard any reports of rauch's velocity so far this spring in the major newspapers.

Caroll is a baseball fan with a background in sports medicine. He basically works the phones and has developed contacts like any other reporter. And like any other reporter, he can give out his sources since he can't violate the level trust with the source. What he said is just based on what Rauch has done but on what has occurred in the past with previous pitchers with SLAP injuries. Until Tommy John, UCLs ended your career, now pitchers are expected to come back from them Hopefully modern medicine has caught up with SLAPs, but it is yet to be seen.

jeremyb1
03-05-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Caroll is a baseball fan with a background in sports medicine. He basically works the phones and has developed contacts like any other reporter. And like any other reporter, he can give out his sources since he can't violate the level trust with the source. What he said is just based on what Rauch has done but on what has occurred in the past with previous pitchers with SLAP injuries. Until Tommy John, UCLs ended your career, now pitchers are expected to come back from them Hopefully modern medicine has caught up with SLAPs, but it is yet to be seen.

yeah, i understand the seriousness of rauch's injury. what i question is whether its prudent to read this much into rauch's velocity at this point in the spring and to disregard his velocity at the end of last season. i also question his source since this information has not been reported anywhere else. knowing that he at least has a source is helpful.

kermittheefrog
03-05-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i think that's really irresponsible if he's assessing rauch's health based on one two inning long spring training appearance. that's pretty convinient to toss aside the last couple months of last season in favor of one spring outing. since when are pitchers expected to light up the gun at the beginning of the spring anyways? furthermore i'd love to know the source of the info about rauch's velocity. bp isn't known for field reporting. caroll isn't in arizona is he? i hadn't heard any reports of rauch's velocity so far this spring in the major newspapers.

Carroll has sources in Arizona and he says they agree Rauch has no velocity or movement right now. BP may not be known for field reporting but they have A LOT of contacts in the baseball world.

jeremyb1
03-05-2003, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Carroll has sources in Arizona and he says they agree Rauch has no velocity or movement right now. BP may not be known for field reporting but they have A LOT of contacts in the baseball world.

interesting. that wasn't really laid out before. i wish chicago news papers would report something that important assuming that poor velocity and movement is a legitimate concern this early in the spring.

wright supposedly doesn't have his fastball yet and i haven't heard anyone show serious concern about that. obviously its a different situation considering the two pitchers' health histories but i'd be interested to know what the expectations are as far a pitchers' performance at this point in the spring.

what is the gist of carroll's argument? that it is typical for pitchers with slap lesions to improve their health and then take a major step backward? or that rauch may have somehow pulled a ryan anderson and injured himself again? i know nothing about these issues especially compared to caroll, its just suprising to me that rauch's performance this early is being given more weight than his performance at the end of last season.

Dadawg_77
03-06-2003, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
what is the gist of carroll's argument? that it is typical for pitchers with slap lesions to improve their health and then take a major step backward? or that rauch may have somehow pulled a ryan anderson and injured himself again? i know nothing about these issues especially compared to caroll, its just suprising to me that rauch's performance this early is being given more weight than his performance at the end of last season.

Me either, that why I asked if there is a doctor in the house. I think Carroll's argument is from historical prospective it uncommon for a pitcher to come back from a SLAP injury. So lack of velocity and movement is off a greater concern for a Rauch then a Danny Wright.

jeremyb1
03-06-2003, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Me either, that why I asked if there is a doctor in the house. I think Carroll's argument is from historical prospective it uncommon for a pitcher to come back from a SLAP injury. So lack of velocity and movement is off a greater concern for a Rauch then a Danny Wright.

that's definately true. if he's convieniently disregarding rauch's performance last season though, i don't think his argument holds much water. it would seem he at least needs to make the argument that it isn't uncommon for pitchers with slap lesions to regain 90% of their movement and velocity and then lose it again.