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rahulsekhar
03-03-2003, 03:19 PM
Just curious what thoughts on here on how many ABs D'Angelo will get v. Harris and what their respective season #s might look like?

My prediction: Jimenez wins 2B, Harris is the 2B/CF backup (with Jimenez shifting to SS to spell Jose on occasion or when Jose spells Crede @ 3B).

Jimenez: 450AB/.270/100R/60RBI/8HR/28SB
Harris: 250AB/.280/50R/40RBI/3HR/19SB

hold2dibber
03-03-2003, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
Just curious what thoughts on here on how many ABs D'Angelo will get v. Harris and what their respective season #s might look like?

My prediction: Jimenez wins 2B, Harris is the 2B/CF backup (with Jimenez shifting to SS to spell Jose on occasion or when Jose spells Crede @ 3B).

Jimenez: 450AB/.270/100R/60RBI/8HR/28SB
Harris: 250AB/.280/50R/40RBI/3HR/19SB

I agree that Jimenez almost certainly will win 2B. I still think, however, that there is a chance Harris will end up in AAA (but only if Rios can serve as a back-up CF or if Borchard wins the CF job outright, both of which seem unlikely). If Harris stays on the team, I'd be absolutely shocked if he hit .280. Over 250 ABs, I think Harris would hit .220 with 30 runs scored. I think your Jimenez numbers look pretty good, except SBs. I don't think he's that much of a SB threat. Maybe 10-15, tops.

lighttowerpower1
03-03-2003, 05:34 PM
Have you ever watched Harris bat? He will be lucky to hit over .200 in the majors. He looks completely clueless up there, he can bunt a few hits here or there, but that's about it.

guillen4life13
03-03-2003, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
Just curious what thoughts on here on how many ABs D'Angelo will get v. Harris and what their respective season #s might look like?

My prediction: Jimenez wins 2B, Harris is the 2B/CF backup (with Jimenez shifting to SS to spell Jose on occasion or when Jose spells Crede @ 3B).

Jimenez: 450AB/.270/100R/60RBI/8HR/28SB
Harris: 250AB/.280/50R/40RBI/3HR/19SB

YO MAN!! HOW YOU LIVIN? GUESS WHO?

jeremyb1
03-03-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by lighttowerpower1
Have you ever watched Harris bat? He will be lucky to hit over .200 in the majors. He looks completely clueless up there, he can bunt a few hits here or there, but that's about it.

yeah, lets use our own personal opinion to disregard harris' minor league career. clearly if he hit as well as he did last season he's capable of hitting .250 in the majors. that's not a guarantee that he'll do it but to say he can't is completely ludicrous.

harris has to make the team unless borchard wins center and rowand is the backup outfielder. i doubt that will happen because its quite unlikely borchard makes the team and even if he does i imagine we'd trade rowand before making him the backup centerfielder and nothing more. i don't think there's anyway rios can be the backup centerfielder.

Ventura23Fan
03-03-2003, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar

My prediction: Jimenez wins 2B, Harris is the 2B/CF backup (with Jimenez shifting to SS to spell Jose on occasion or when Jose spells Crede @ 3B).


If Jose is in the lineup, I want him at SS, not 3B. Tony G. can spell Crede at 3B.

guillen4life13
03-03-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
yeah, lets use our own personal opinion to disregard harris' minor league career. clearly if he hit as well as he did last season he's capable of hitting .250 in the majors. that's not a guarantee that he'll do it but to say he can't is completely ludicrous.

harris has to make the team unless borchard wins center and rowand is the backup outfielder. i doubt that will happen because its quite unlikely borchard makes the team and even if he does i imagine we'd trade rowand before making him the backup centerfielder and nothing more. i don't think there's anyway rios can be the backup centerfielder.

Here's the offensive lineup Depth Chart as I see it as of now.

1B
Konerko

2B
Jiminez
Graffanino

SS
Valentin/Nino

3B
Crede/Nino

C
Olivo
Alomar

LF
Daubach
Lee

CF
Rowand

RF
Maggs

czalgosz
03-03-2003, 08:21 PM
You should put Daubach behind Konerko at 1B. You also only have 11 players listed.

MarkEdward
03-03-2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Here's the offensive lineup Depth Chart as I see it as of now.


What about Armando Rios?

If it were up to me, I'd go with five bench players: Alomar, Daubach, Graffanino, Rios, and Harris/Borchard.

Daver
03-03-2003, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
What about Armando Rios?



Rios could be cut for all I care,KW never would have signed him if he knew he would be able to sign Daubach to a minor league deal.

guillen4life13
03-03-2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by daver
Rios could be cut for all I care,KW never would have signed him if he knew he would be able to sign Daubach to a minor league deal.

Agreed. While he may be having a good showing in S.T., I really don't think he will amount to anything. It would be best to take that roster spot and have another man in the pen. Oh yeah, and for the fourth bench player, I'd go for Harris.

OfficerKarkovice
03-03-2003, 10:07 PM
Here would be my 25 man roster as of right now (in alphabetical order by position)

Infielders:

Crede
Daubach (OF also)
Graffanino
Harris (OF also)
Jimenez
Konerko
Thomas
Valentin

Outfielders:
Lee
Ordonez
Rios
Rowand

Catchers:

Olivo
Alomar

Starting Pitchers

Buehrle
Colon
Garland
Loaiza
Wright

Bullpen

Glover
Gordon
Koch
Marte
White
Wunsch

guillen4life13
03-03-2003, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
Here would be my 25 man roster as of right now (in alphabetical order by position)

Infielders:

Crede
Daubach (OF also)
Graffanino
Harris (OF also)
Jimenez
Konerko
Thomas
Valentin

Outfielders:
Lee
Ordonez
Rios
Rowand

Catchers:

Olivo
Alomar

Starting Pitchers

Buehrle
Colon
Garland
Loaiza
Wright

Bullpen

Glover
Gordon
Koch
Marte
White
Wunsch

I don't know. I tend to prefer 7 man pens, and I honestly don't think that Wunsch deserves a spot on the roster. Munoz should be given a chance, or have Wunsch be the seventh man. A pen with three damn good LHP's is not bad.

Daver
03-03-2003, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
I don't know. I tend to prefer 7 man pens, and I honestly don't think that Wunsch deserves a spot on the roster. Munoz should be given a chance, or have Wunsch be the seventh man. A pen with three damn good LHP's is not bad.

Rushing Munoz is not really a good idea,the Sox have a bad habit of burning themselves by rushing their pitchers to the big leagues.

OfficerKarkovice
03-03-2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
I don't know. I tend to prefer 7 man pens, and I honestly don't think that Wunsch deserves a spot on the roster. Munoz should be given a chance, or have Wunsch be the seventh man. A pen with three damn good LHP's is not bad.

Munoz has been pitching for what seems like forever without a break. He's a good pitcher, he'll be here eventually. Give him a little time in AAA to get things together, get the season rolling and then we'll see.

voodoochile
03-03-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
I don't know. I tend to prefer 7 man pens, and I honestly don't think that Wunsch deserves a spot on the roster. Munoz should be given a chance, or have Wunsch be the seventh man. A pen with three damn good LHP's is not bad.

I would think that with the strength and experience of the starting rotation (4 starters with 190+ IP last year (thanks, Phil)) and the large quantity of days off in the first 2 months, the Sox would be better off going with a 6 man pen and and extra bat off the bench. Of course that is just IMO...

MarkEdward
03-03-2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
I don't know. I tend to prefer 7 man pens, and I honestly don't think that Wunsch deserves a spot on the roster. Munoz should be given a chance, or have Wunsch be the seventh man. A pen with three damn good LHP's is not bad.

How many innings would Munoz pitch? Considering Kelly Wunsch, our top LOOGY, will throw only about 60 innings, Munoz would probably only get about 30. And these innings would probably only be mop-up innings. He's better off continuing his development in AAA.

In my opinion, a 12th pitcher is a complete waste of a roster spot.

Bmr31
03-04-2003, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
Just curious what thoughts on here on how many ABs D'Angelo will get v. Harris and what their respective season #s might look like?

My prediction: Jimenez wins 2B, Harris is the 2B/CF backup (with Jimenez shifting to SS to spell Jose on occasion or when Jose spells Crede @ 3B).

Jimenez: 450AB/.270/100R/60RBI/8HR/28SB
Harris: 250AB/.280/50R/40RBI/3HR/19SB

I will just assume those projections were a joke?

jeremyb1
03-04-2003, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
How many innings would Munoz pitch? Considering Kelly Wunsch, our top LOOGY, will throw only about 60 innings, Munoz would probably only get about 30. And these innings would probably only be mop-up innings. He's better off continuing his development in AAA.

In my opinion, a 12th pitcher is a complete waste of a roster spot.

here's a hypothetical: lets say loaiza is the fifth starter and in his first start he gives up 8 runs in the first two innings and need to be pulled after two innings. who comes in to pitch?

glover can maybe pitch three innings but that's it. after three innings hitters have hit over .300 against him the last two seasons. that gets us through the fifth but we still have 4 innings left. maybe you pitch white for two, wunsch for one, and then gordon for one. maybe if you're really lucky you can pitch white for three innings and then you don't have to go to gordon. either way you look at it glover and white are going to be unavailable the next day.

that means that the next day, we're down to our closer two setup men, our left handed specialist, and our closer. if we have a pitcher throw less than 6 innings the next day we're putting a ton of stress on our pen all of a sudden.

i would really like to see us take a seventh reliever from the group of ginter and the losers of the fifth starters spot with munoz, sanders, and almonte potentially thrown into the mix also.

hold2dibber
03-04-2003, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
here's a hypothetical: lets say loaiza is the fifth starter and in his first start he gives up 8 runs in the first two innings and need to be pulled after two innings. who comes in to pitch?

glover can maybe pitch three innings but that's it. after three innings hitters have hit over .300 against him the last two seasons. that gets us through the fifth but we still have 4 innings left. maybe you pitch white for two, wunsch for one, and then gordon for one. maybe if you're really lucky you can pitch white for three innings and then you don't have to go to gordon. either way you look at it glover and white are going to be unavailable the next day.

that means that the next day, we're down to our closer two setup men, our left handed specialist, and our closer. if we have a pitcher throw less than 6 innings the next day we're putting a ton of stress on our pen all of a sudden.

i would really like to see us take a seventh reliever from the group of ginter and the losers of the fifth starters spot with munoz, sanders, and almonte potentially thrown into the mix also.

Well, first of all, if Loaiza gives up 8 runs in the first two innings, you can probably leave Glover in for 5 or 6, since it probably isn't going to matter if they start shelling him in his 4th IP (in light of the huge deficit the Sox would already be in).

Nonetheless, your point is well taken. The pen as it appears to be constituted does not seem to have a long relief guy. I think this is okay during the first month, because the fifth starter, who will miss several turns in the rotation, should be able to fill that role most of the time. However, once we hit May or so and the 5th starter is needed to start every 5th day, I think the Sox will need a 7th man in the pen at that point. Ginter, Heredia or Loaiza seem to make the most sense to me (or maybe Almonte if he can get his arm in shape to pitch long relief).

I'd start Munoz in AAA (he's only 20) to get more regular work. If someone up here falters or gets hurt and Munoz is mowing 'em down in Charlotte, he can come up at that time.

MarkEdward
03-04-2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
here's a hypothetical: lets say loaiza is the fifth starter and in his first start he gives up 8 runs in the first two innings and need to be pulled after two innings. who comes in to pitch?

glover can maybe pitch three innings but that's it. after three innings hitters have hit over .300 against him the last two seasons. that gets us through the fifth but we still have 4 innings left.

I agree with Dib that I'd probably leave Glover in for five or six innings. If we're getting shelled it doesn't matter if the score is 8-1 or 12-1.

maybe you pitch white for two, wunsch for one, and then gordon for one. maybe if you're really lucky you can pitch white for three innings and then you don't have to go to gordon. either way you look at it glover and white are going to be unavailable the next day.
that means that the next day, we're down to our closer two setup men, our left handed specialist, and our closer. if we have a pitcher throw less than 6 innings the next day we're putting a ton of stress on our pen all of a sudden.

And how many times does this actually happen? Once or twice every two months, maybe not even that. So Munoz will be pitching three or four innings every two months?

i would really like to see us take a seventh reliever from the group of ginter and the losers of the fifth starters spot with munoz, sanders, and almonte potentially thrown into the mix also.

*If* we take a twelfth pitcher, I'd rather take a long reliever like Ginter over one-inning guys like Munoz or Sanders.

EnricoPallazzo
03-07-2003, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
I agree with Dib that I'd probably leave Glover in for five or six innings. If we're getting shelled it doesn't matter if the score is 8-1 or 12-1.



And how many times does this actually happen? Once or twice every two months, maybe not even that. So Munoz will be pitching three or four innings every two months?



*If* we take a twelfth pitcher, I'd rather take a long reliever like Ginter over one-inning guys like Munoz or Sanders.


Good point Mark. Even with the off days and dates lost to weather, the worst thing to do would be to overuse the pen early. With the inconsistencies that I'm sure we'll get from Loaiza, Wright, & Garland, Ginter is the obvious pick.

I can't imagine Rios getting any playing time at all so he would just waste a roster spot.

Is Graffanino going to be ready? I haven't heard one way or another.

hold2dibber
03-07-2003, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by EnricoPallazzo
Good point Mark. Even with the off days and dates lost to weather, the worst thing to do would be to overuse the pen early. With the inconsistencies that I'm sure we'll get from Loaiza, Wright, & Garland, Ginter is the obvious pick.

I can't imagine Rios getting any playing time at all so he would just waste a roster spot.

Is Graffanino going to be ready? I haven't heard one way or another.

I've heard that he will be, barring any set backs.