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jeremyb1
02-28-2003, 11:45 AM
there are a number of articles running today in which manuel claims daubach should see 250-300 at bats this season between dh and 1b assuming he makes the team. i agree with the principle of getting our bench players a good amount of at bats so they'll be on the top of their game when they do play but where are all these games going to come from? 250 at bats would take a minimum of 45 games from frank and paully each of which have to figure to play 150 games if they're hitting well.

i'm hoping that this situation will be resolved by parting ways with rios. while he did seem like a good singing at the time, he's an inferior hitter when compared to daubach and probably not that good of a defensive outfielder to justify his inclusion on the roster. if daubach subs at both corner outfield spots in addition to first and dh then we're looking at at least 300 at bats. he could be an excellent supersub. this would also allow us to take one more pitcher which the sun times hinted might happen claiming saunders, munoz, and porzio are fighting for a seventh spot in the pen. i know the chairman wouldn't appretiate throwing away half a million dollars on rios but it seems like a logical decision right now.

czalgosz
02-28-2003, 11:56 AM
Well, Daubach can also play left and right (although neither very well), so he could spell Lee or very occasionally Ordonez as well.

I would think that 250-300 PAs isn't out of order for Daubach, as long as he's used carefully.

upnorthsox
02-28-2003, 12:05 PM
I think he's going to struggle to get 200 AB's but that'll mostly be because of the good play of the guys in front of him. I can't see Rios getting even 70 AB's unless they're all in CF so why bother, I'd rather have another lefty in the pen.

Paulwny
02-28-2003, 12:15 PM
I'm afraid it's the "everyone plays" philosphy JM learned from Alou. It may have worked with a young team but has yet to work with a more veteran team.

soxruleEP
02-28-2003, 12:31 PM
Manuel is operating from two conclusions here:

1. The reason Durham and Lofton fell off after great starts is he didn't give them days off.

2. The reason Leifer didn't hit is that he didn't give him enough at-bats.

I don't know what I think of these conclusions but if a ballplayer is so exhausted after April that he needs days off to stay sharp, there is something wrong with the spring training regimen.

jeremyb1
02-28-2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Well, Daubach can also play left and right (although neither very well), so he could spell Lee or very occasionally Ordonez as well.

I would think that 250-300 PAs isn't out of order for Daubach, as long as he's used carefully.

yeah. that's how i'd envisioned his role but the sun times article said he's only play outfield in emergency situations.

duke of dorwood
02-28-2003, 12:57 PM
The fatigue in April is more mental. Probably from the thought of pacing yourself for the long run.

joecrede
02-28-2003, 01:12 PM
Didn't the start of the team's slide last year coincide with JM finding AB's for Graffinino?

JM puts far too much emphasis on getting AB's for bench players.

czalgosz
02-28-2003, 01:33 PM
If it were my team, Daubach would get starts against strong right-handed pitching, spelling Lee or Konerko.

He would also get about 60-70 PAs as a pinch-hitter over the course of the season.

What bothers me more about Manuel than his propensity for starting bench players is his seeming loathing for pinch-hitting late in games. How many times over the past couple seasons has Alomar or Clayton or Paul batted for themselves in a tight game in the 8th or 9th innings while Liefer sat on the bench scratching himself?

gosox41
02-28-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Didn't the start of the team's slide last year coincide with JM finding AB's for Graffinino?

JM puts far too much emphasis on getting AB's for bench players.


:jerry
Can't wait to start doing some tinkering.

kermittheefrog
02-28-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Didn't the start of the team's slide last year coincide with JM finding AB's for Graffinino?

JM puts far too much emphasis on getting AB's for bench players.

Tony Graffanino is one of the last guys I'd say is hurting this team. He deserves the at bats he gets. He gets on base and has some gap power. If we didn't have Jimenez I'd suggest Graffanino for the starting second base job.

czalgosz
02-28-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Tony Graffanino is one of the last guys I'd say is hurting this team. He deserves the at bats he gets. He gets on base and has some gap power. If we didn't have Jimenez I'd suggest Graffanino for the starting second base job.

Actually, come to think of it, the Sox just may have one of the best benches out there this year, assuming Graffanino's healthy (I haven't heard one way or the other on this, is it a given he's ready to go?)

Hangar18
02-28-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Actually, come to think of it, the Sox just may have one of the best benches out there this year, assuming Graffanino's healthy (I haven't heard one way or the other on this, is it a given he's ready to go?)

Now you see why Im so excited about this season. This might be the best bench theyve had in Years, and the best Bullpen theyve had in years. Just one more established pitcher in the rotation, and Lee and Thomas to step up, and this team can Go Places....

hold2dibber
02-28-2003, 03:05 PM
I think it would be a huge waste of Daubach's talent for him to get less than 300 plate appearances, particularly in light of the Sox' right-handed heavy lineup. I don't really care if Rios gets ABs, but Daubach is a professional hitter from the left side of the plate. He should get a couple starts per week and should be pinch hitting fairly regularly for guys like Crede, Alomar, Olivo, Rowand when there is a right handed pitcher on the hill.

kermittheefrog
02-28-2003, 03:16 PM
I have absolutely no problem with Daubach taking ABs from Konerko or Thomas against righthanded pitchers. Barring a step up in production from both of those two I'll look forward to seeing Daubach in the lineup against right handed pitching a lot doing what he does best.

jeremyb1
02-28-2003, 04:15 PM
i think the bench has a great deal of versatility. daubach is a good lefthanded hitter with power. if manuel would let him he could spell carlos, maggs, paully, and frank. harris is highly versatile in that he can spell jiminez, rowand, and valentin (with jimenez sliding over to ss), provides great speed and also bats lefthanded. graffanino is a solid right handed hitter with good on base skills that can fill in at 2b, ss, and 3b.

the two somewhat weak links are alomar and rios. i could see alomar providing some valuable offensive contribuations if he plays infrequently enough to stay completely healthy (an .800 ops in april the last three seasons) throughout the season, however unlikely that may be. at this point rios' value seems limited to being a third lefty bat off the bench and the fact that apparently he's a somewhat better defensive outfielder than daubach. as i've already said numerous times, i think that roster spot could be better used on munoz, sanders, almonte, porzio, or one of the losers of the fifth starters spot as a 7th reliever but that's not much of an option since rios has a major league deal.

maurice
02-28-2003, 04:33 PM
With Graff being the only righthanded hitting IF on the bench, I expect to see him in almost a straight platoon with Valentin -- starting against virtually all lefties with Jimenez sliding over to short in what amounts to a tryout for the starting job there next season.