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TheBigHurt
02-23-2003, 11:58 PM
whats Tom Gordon's era going to be at season's end.......

Bmr31
02-24-2003, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
whats Tom Gordon's era going to be at season's end.......

FLash has the potential to be an excellent middle reliever. Its all up to his attitude. I am going to play the odds and pick 3.0-3.5.

fuzzy_patters
02-24-2003, 12:24 AM
I'm picking 2.51-3.00. JM won't allow him to face guys he matches up poorly against because JM is a tinkerer. This should help keep Gordon's ERA down. There is always the risk of the next pitcher allowing inherited runners to score when you manage like that, but that next pitcher will likely be either Marte or Koch because of Marte, Koch, and Gordon's expected roles in the bullpen.

Stoky44
02-24-2003, 12:37 AM
I know everybody is trying to be positive here, but I am going to be realistic. Don't get me wrong I think the Sox will do great and make it to at least the ALCS. But lets face K-Will is not a great G.M. in fact I don't think he is that he is even in the top 20 range. Yes he made two HUGE and GREAT pick ups with Koch and Colon, but let's not forget his past. I was thinking that Flash was going to have an ERA around 4.01-4.3. Then I looked at his career ERA, which stands at 4.11. Enough said. I agree from 96-02 his ERA has been bleow 3.5 4 out of those 6 seasons. But the other two seasons were in the 5.6 range. I know that was back in Boston. But I am just making a prediction that this pick up for the Sox will not pan out, I could be wrong. Hell, I hope I am wrong. But the fact remains we won't win all 173 games this year, and somebody will not have the best career year. Flash is not my pick to click.

Everyone of K-Will's pitching trades have been bad for us. I don't think now everyone of his picks this year will all of the sudden be great. Everytime K-Will makes a pitching move I get scared and wonder if they are damaged goods.

Don't take this post the wrong way, just giving my opinion. I HATE THE CUBS AND the Sox are going to the ALCS.

TheBigHurt
02-24-2003, 12:53 AM
dont say KW is not a good gm.....he isnt a bad one....he brought in 2 good trades and a couple of fa signings with the money we have KW has done a great job this offseason (wow i cant believe im saying that)

last yr you could of said he wasnt a good GM but hes done a fine job offseason...... yes i said fine

Bmr31
02-24-2003, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
dont say KW is not a good gm.....he isnt a bad one....he brought in 2 good trades and a couple of fa signings with the money we have KW has done a great job this offseason (wow i cant believe im saying that)

last yr you could of said he wasnt a good GM but hes done a fine job offseason...... yes i said fine

Ya know, KW got a bad rap because two of his "risks" didnt work out. I am not saying hes great, but he had a hell of an offseason.

TheBigHurt
02-24-2003, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Ya know, KW got a bad rap because two of his "risks" didnt work out. I am not saying hes great, but he had a hell of an offseason.

yeah he really did have one hell of a offseason ....which i havent heard much credit for

jeremyb1
02-24-2003, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by Stoky44
I know everybody is trying to be positive here, but I am going to be realistic. Don't get me wrong I think the Sox will do great and make it to at least the ALCS. But lets face K-Will is not a great G.M. in fact I don't think he is that he is even in the top 20 range. Yes he made two HUGE and GREAT pick ups with Koch and Colon, but let's not forget his past. I was thinking that Flash was going to have an ERA around 4.01-4.3. Then I looked at his career ERA, which stands at 4.11. Enough said. I agree from 96-02 his ERA has been bleow 3.5 4 out of those 6 seasons. But the other two seasons were in the 5.6 range. I know that was back in Boston. But I am just making a prediction that this pick up for the Sox will not pan out, I could be wrong. Hell, I hope I am wrong. But the fact remains we won't win all 173 games this year, and somebody will not have the best career year. Flash is not my pick to click.

Everyone of K-Will's pitching trades have been bad for us. I don't think now everyone of his picks this year will all of the sudden be great. Everytime K-Will makes a pitching move I get scared and wonder if they are damaged goods.

Don't take this post the wrong way, just giving my opinion. I HATE THE CUBS AND the Sox are going to the ALCS.

i think that with gordon there's a much better chance of him getting injured that pitching poorly.

kermittheefrog
02-24-2003, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i think that with gordon there's a much better chance of him getting injured that pitching poorly.

I completely agree.

WinningUgly!
02-24-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i think that with gordon there's a much better chance of him getting injured that pitching poorly.

Hopefully, since he'll be splitting time as a set-up guy, a lighter work load will allow him to remain injury free. :?:

CHISOXFAN13
02-24-2003, 10:20 AM
Yeah that's right. Williams' trades for pitching have all been bad, including giving up Matt Guerrier for Marte. What a horrible move, right? Have some validity to the posts before you make a ridiculous generalization.

Stoky44
02-24-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i think that with gordon there's a much better chance of him getting injured that pitching poorly.


Good point. I just don't think he will have a good year. Either a high ERA or he'll be hurt. Given recent history you are probably right, he'll more likely be hurt. I stand corrected.

delben91
02-24-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Stoky44
Everyone of K-Will's pitching trades have been bad for us.

I'm assuming you mean every pitching trade prior to this offseason. If you want to include this offseason I'm going to have to argue that not "every" one of his trades was terrible. Colon for Osuna, Biddle and Liefer, regardless of falling strikeout totals and any weight concerns on Colon's part was still one hell of a deal.

czalgosz
02-24-2003, 03:30 PM
(1) Gordon wasn't traded for, so I don't understand why KW's trades come into this. If the Sox were building the bullpen around Gordon (like the Cubs tried to do) then I would be upset. But he'll be at best the 3rd or 4th best reliever in the pen, so it's not like the Sox will fold up if he goes down to injury again...

(2) On the subject of KW's trades, I could break them all down, but the only trades that he's done that were completely bad were the Ritchie trade and Durham for Adkins. Other than that, he's either broken even or improved the team.

Guerrier for Marte turned out to be decent (despite all the bashing on this board) although that could still hurt in the long run. Bradford is a very good reliever, but Olivo's a more important part of the team. Despite Ramirez being a bust, he was a good risk, and Jeff Abbott isn't someone you're going to miss. Picking up a decent lefty starting prospect for 3 months of Kenny Lofton isn't bad. Getting D'Angelo Jimenez for nothing was a coup. And that's not even mentioning this offseason.

Those who say that KW doesn't know how to make trades isn't paying a lot of attention. He made two atrocious trades, and he deserves all the heat he's taken for them. But other than that, he's done a decent job as GM, IMHO.

TheBigHurt
02-24-2003, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Stoky44
Good point. I just don't think he will have a good year. Either a high ERA or he'll be hurt. Given recent history you are probably right, he'll more likely be hurt. I stand corrected.

well did ya want me to put in a seperate category: Injured before the season ends.......i didnt want to jinx flash

Huisj
02-24-2003, 04:47 PM
i'm that one guy on the 2.00-2.50 part, but i think it will only be over about 10 innings pitched. he'll be on the DL before you can say "May."

TheBigHurt
02-24-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Huisj
i'm that one guy on the 2.00-2.50 part, but i think it will only be over about 10 innings pitched. he'll be on the DL before you can say "May."

May....there i said it