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Vsahajpal
02-23-2003, 01:26 PM
Interesting.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/5227969.htm

PaleHoseGeorge
02-23-2003, 01:52 PM
Here's the part of the interview Gordon Wittenmyer left out from his column in the Pioneer Press:

"When asked whether 30 starts and 190 innings were important to a pitcher's credentials, Twins Joe Mays replied, 'Phil Rogers' mother wears combat boots!'"

My God... what is next? It's not enough that Gardenhire thinks the Sox players should shut up about the division (while he himself keeps crowing), now Chicago's baseball BEATWRITER needs to shut up, too?????

*****!!! Obviously these Twins will use any dime store motivational technique their little pea-brains can think up! I imagine them all staying up late in their bunks at camp, reading the Chicago Tribune under the covers with a flashlight.

What DOPES that entire city is filled with! :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

WinningUgly!
02-23-2003, 02:10 PM
Rogers starts with the premise that reliable starting pitching is the key to being a contender, and that a strong measure of reliability is a pitcher's workload. He then noted that looking at how many pitchers with at least 30 starts and 190 innings pitched was a remarkably accurate predictor of success in 2002.

The Anaheim Angels, for instance, were the only team to enter spring training last season with more than three pitchers with that kind of workload the previous year. They had five. The eight teams that made the playoffs last year were the only teams in the majors with at least three such pitchers.


I don't remember Phil saying "The eight teams that made the playoffs last year were the only teams in the majors with at least three such pitchers." I think Gordon Wittenmyer is putting a convienent spin on Phil's words.

Wittenmyer writes:
"the White Sox come into this season with four pitchers having reached that threshold last year Colon, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland and Dan Wright"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Buerhle, Garland & Wright all members of the White Sox staff last season? Didn't GW just tell us in the paragraph above, that "The eight teams that made the playoffs last year were the only teams in the majors with at least three such pitchers."???

What a drillrod!

DrCrawdad
02-23-2003, 06:16 PM
"Naturally, the theory suggests the White Sox might have the advantage over the Twins in the divisional race even before Chicago traded for 20-game winner Bartolo Colon."

If I understand one of the points here it's that Rogers is a Chicago writer so "naturally" Rogers theory on pitching puts the Sox in front. What? The Chicago media naturally puts out favorable propaganda for the White Sox. Yeah, that's their agenda.

I look at Rogers theory as take it for what it's worth. Is there any pitching stat (one stat that many Cub fans have fallen in love with is K's, mainly because their team led in K's last year) that can accurately predict team success?

In the end the only stat that really matters is team wins/losses.

- DrCrawdad.

progers0826
02-23-2003, 06:22 PM
To clarify, Gordon correctly stated my ramblings on 30/190 starters. It is a look at the previous year's performance of pitchers on Opening Day rosters. There were only eight teams that entered 2002 with at least three starters who had 30/190 seasons in 2001, and all eight made the playoffs. The White Sox, by the way, entered last season with two 30/190 men -- Buehrle and Todd Ritchie. I'm as interested as anyone to see if it will provide a decent barometer this season. The White Sox are the only team in the majors with four 30/190 guys -- and there's only one among the other four AL Central teams, Cleveland's C.C. Sabathia. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming ...

progers0826
02-23-2003, 06:29 PM
The good doctor, Mr. Crawdaddy, did hit on the one point in the Pioneer Press article I would take exception to -- that being the word "naturally.'' This seems to assume that a Chicago writer will draw conclusions favorable to a Chicago team. Well, in this case the conclusion favors a Chicago team, but what about 2002, when the same Chicago writer picked the Twins to win the AL Central? And now -- I promise -- back to your regularly scheduled programming ...

duke of dorwood
02-23-2003, 06:30 PM
Simply put the Twins know they are a "career year" team, destined to come to earth.

RKMeibalane
02-23-2003, 06:36 PM
I wonder if Kyle Lohse will wear his oversized hat this season.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-23-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I wonder if Kyle Lohse will wear his oversized hat this season.

You mean Kyle "Big Top" Lohse?

Yeah, we've got a million of 'em.

:gulp:

DrCrawdad
02-23-2003, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by progers0826
The good doctor, Mr. Crawdaddy, did hit on the one point in the Pioneer Press article I would take exception to -- that being the word "naturally.'' This seems to assume that a Chicago writer will draw conclusions favorable to a Chicago team. Well, in this case the conclusion favors a Chicago team, but what about 2002, when the same Chicago writer picked the Twins to win the AL Central? And now -- I promise -- back to your regularly scheduled programming ...

Thanks for the compliment. Here's one back at you, I appreciate your participation here (as well of course your column). Your posting here is cool and that you're using an easily identifiable name shows that you've got, well...hum...ok I'll try it in spanish, huevos grande.

- DrCrawdad.

WinningUgly!
02-23-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by progers0826
To clarify, Gordon correctly stated my ramblings on 30/190 starters. It is a look at the previous year's performance of pitchers on Opening Day rosters. There were only eight teams that entered 2002 with at least three starters who had 30/190 seasons in 2001, and all eight made the playoffs. The White Sox, by the way, entered last season with two 30/190 men -- Buehrle and Todd Ritchie. I'm as interested as anyone to see if it will provide a decent barometer this season. The White Sox are the only team in the majors with four 30/190 guys -- and there's only one among the other four AL Central teams, Cleveland's C.C. Sabathia. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming ...

Sorry, I'm easily confused by "fuzzy math":D:

So naturally, you're saying the Sox will win more games than the rest of the AL Central combined? :)

moochpuppy
02-24-2003, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge

What DOPES that entire city is filled with! :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

White Sox fans excluded, right PHG?.............................................. ................ .................................................. .................RIGHT?!?



:D:

PaleHoseGeorge
02-24-2003, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by moochpuppy
White Sox fans excluded, right PHG?.............................................. ............................ .................................................. ....RIGHT?!?



If not for the handful of Sox Fans living up there to raise the average, you would need a micrometer to measure the collective IQ of the Twin Cities population.

:)

pudge
02-24-2003, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
I don't remember Phil saying "The eight teams that made the playoffs last year were the only teams in the majors with at least three such pitchers." I think Gordon Wittenmyer is putting a convienent spin on Phil's words.

Wittenmyer writes:


Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Buerhle, Garland & Wright all members of the White Sox staff last season? Didn't GW just tell us in the paragraph above, that "The eight teams that made the playoffs last year were the only teams in the majors with at least three such pitchers."???

What a drillrod!

I think what he meant to say was, the 8 play-off teams had three such guys going into spring training last year... it's a bit confusing the way he words it.

Oops... I just noticed that Mr. Rogers already mentioned this, sorry.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-24-2003, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by pudge
I think what he meant to say was, the 8 play-off teams had three such guys going into spring training last year... it's a bit confusing the way he words it.

It's all packaged for local consumption. I'm sure the Twins have it posted on their bulletin board, too. That's how pathetic this war of words has become. The whiney punks from Minnesota are going to make the Tribune's baseball beatwriter EAT his words!

:)

Hangar18
02-24-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by progers0826
The good doctor, Mr. Crawdaddy, did hit on the one point in the Pioneer Press article I would take exception to -- that being the word "naturally.'' This seems to assume that a Chicago writer will draw conclusions favorable to a Chicago team. Well, in this case the conclusion favors a Chicago team, but what about 2002, when the same Chicago writer picked the Twins to win the AL Central? And now -- I promise -- back to your regularly scheduled programming ...

Heh Heh..... that PRogers....hes a card heh heh

Juan Pizarro
02-24-2003, 01:55 PM
There was a Baseball Prospectus piece a while back that noted Rogers' 30/190 "theory" and showed it was a fluke for 2002, has no historical heft and is basically useless.