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hold2dibber
02-22-2003, 02:30 AM
Insomnia tonight. I decided to compare Frank's career numbers in a variety of categories to a number of HOFers and two "much beloved" Flubs who many around these parts think are HOF shoe-ins when their time comes. The players I chose are, like Frank, sluggers (i.e., I didn't compare his numbers to Richie Ashburn or Ozzie Smith). I chose 10 players in addition to Frank:

Jimmie Foxx
Hank Greenberg
Harmon Killebrew
Tony Perez
Dave Winfield
Reggie Jackson
Willie McCovey
Willie Stargell
Sammy "Bacardi Bottle" Sosa
Andre Dawson

I have no clue how to turn my MS Word table setting forth various stats for these 11 guys into a readable chart here. So, instead, I'll give you Frank's numbers in each category I looked at, his rank (of 11) in each category and then, just for kicks, Sosa's numbers and rank in each category, and, finally, the leader among the 11 guys in each category with his numbers for that category. All stats are from www.baseball-reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com). Here we go:

Avg. Runs*: Frank 111 (no. 3); Sosa 105 (no. 4); leader Foxx and Greenberg (tie - 122)
Avg. 2B*: Frank 37 (no. 2); Sosa 26 (no. 9); leader Greenberg (44)
Avg. HR*: Frank 36 (no. 5); Sosa 43 (no. 1); leader Sosa
Avg. RBI*: Frank 123 (no. 3); Sosa 116 (no. 4); leader Greenberg (148)
Avg. BB*: Frank 123 (no. 1); Sosa 64 (tie no. 8); leader Frank
Avg. SO*: Frank 92 (tie no. 1); Sosa 158 (no. 11); leader Frank and Foxx
Career Avg.: Frank .314 (no. 2); Sosa .278 (no. 8); leader Foxx (.325)
Career OBP: Frank .432 (no. 1); Sosa .348 (no. 9); leader Frank
Career SLG: Frank .568 (no. 3); Sosa .546 (no. 4); leader Foxx (.609)
Career OPS: Frank 1.000 (no. 3); Sosa .894 (no. 4); leader Foxx (1.037)
No. of MVPs: Frank 2 (tie no. 2); Sosa 1 (tie no. 4); leader Foxx (3)
No. of Top 10 MVP: Frank 8 (tie no. 4); Sosa 6 (tie no. 6); leader Foxx (14)
Career Rank - OPS: Frank 10th all time (no. 3); Sosa 65th all time (no. 4); leader Foxx (4th all time)
No. of times All-Star: Frank 5 (no. 11); Sosa 6 (tie - no. 8); leader Jackson (14)
No. of times Top 10 total bases: Frank 8 (tie - no. 6); Sosa 9 (tie - no. 4); leader Foxx (12)
No. of times top 10 OBP: Frank 8 (tie - no. 3); Sosa 1 (no. 10); leader Foxx (12)
Career Rank - OBP: Frank 9th all time (no. 1); Sosa ? (not top 100); leader Frank
Career HRs: Frank 376 (no. 10); Sosa 499 (no. 6); leader Killebrew (573)
Career RBIs: Frank 1285 (no. 10); Sosa 1347 (no. 9); leader Foxx (1922)
No. of times top 10 HR: Frank 7 (tie - no. 10); Sosa 10 (tie - no. 4); leaders Foxx, Killebrew and Jackson (tie - 13)
No. of times top 10 RBI: Frank 8 (tie - no. 6); Sosa 7 (tie - no. 8); leader Foxx (13)

* Per 162 games

My conclusion: Frank is clearly a HOFer. And Jimmie Foxx was friggin' scary awesome. In a group of 8 hall of famers, 1 certain to be hall of famer (Sosa), and 1 likely to be hall of famer (Dawson), Frank clearly holds his own and is clearly in the top half of that group overall.

I hope that all makes sense.

WinningUgly!
02-22-2003, 02:41 AM
Very nicely done h2d. There's no doubt about it, Frank's numbers make him more than HOF worthy. The only thing that will work against him will be his years as a DH, which is total BS.

EnricoPallazzo
02-22-2003, 03:02 AM
WOW, great work dibber!

We all know Sammy will get in on fewer ballots than Frank. It is our lot in life. Maybe Sosa will wear a Sox hat at the induction.

I hope he didn't spill any of that rum.

OEO Magglio
02-22-2003, 03:22 AM
The only thing that will work against him will be his years as a DH, which is total BS.
Frank definetly deserves to be in the hof, winningugly, your exactly right being a dh will work against him, and it is total bs. It's better to be a dh then not know how to play right field(sosa).

DVG
02-22-2003, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber

My conclusion: Frank is clearly a HOFer. And Jimmie Foxx was friggin' scary awesome. In a group of 8 hall of famers, 1 certain to be hall of famer (Sosa), and 1 likely to be hall of famer (Dawson), Frank clearly holds his own and is clearly in the top half of that group overall.

I hope that all makes sense.

:moron

HA!HA!HA!HA!HA! As long as there is one breath in my tubby
little body I will see to it that your evil Antichrist never makes
the Hall of Fame!! and so I started my campaign before his
career is even over!! Got to start early!! You are warned, scum
Sox boy!! That vile discredit to the human race will never get
close to any Hall of Fame that my Sammy is in!! I will not stand
for such desecration!! Try and stop me!! HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!

jortafan
02-22-2003, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by DVG
:moron

HA!HA!HA!HA!HA! As long as there is one breath in my tubby
little body I will see to it that your evil Antichrist never makes
the Hall of Fame!! and so I started my campaign before his
career is even over!! Got to start early!! You are warned, scum
Sox boy!! That vile discredit to the human race will never get
close to any Hall of Fame that my Sammy is in!! I will not stand
for such desecration!! Try and stop me!! HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!

Somebody give that man a sedative. And tell him to change that cheap toupee.

Seriously, it would help if Frank could come up with a couple more monster years, and end his career on an upswing. Otherwise, the impression he leaves is that of the next Don Mattingly, who had a streak of years in the first half of his career where he was Hall of Fame-bound for sure, only to have a mediocre second half of his career derail it.

And for the record, yeah, I think Mattingly deserves a slot in the Hall, and I think Frank has already done enough to deserve to be a shoo-in. But these impressions unfortunately are the way things work sometimes.

Tragg
02-22-2003, 09:26 AM
Great work dibber. That should be e mailed to the moron every time he makes one of his ridiculous statements about Frank.

hose
02-22-2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Insomnia tonight. I decided to compare Frank's career numbers in a variety of categories to a number of HOFers and two "much beloved" Flubs who many around these parts think are HOF shoe-ins when their time comes. The players I chose are, like Frank, sluggers (i.e., I didn't compare his numbers to Richie Ashburn or Ozzie Smith). I chose 10 players in addition to Frank:

Jimmie Foxx
Hank Greenberg
Harmon Killebrew
Tony Perez
Dave Winfield
Reggie Jackson
Willie McCovey
Willie Stargell
Sammy "Bacardi Bottle" Sosa
Andre Dawson

I have no clue how to turn my MS Word table setting forth various stats for these 11 guys into a readable chart here. So, instead, I'll give you Frank's numbers in each category I looked at, his rank (of 11) in each category and then, just for kicks, Sosa's numbers and rank in each category, and, finally, the leader among the 11 guys in each category with his numbers for that category. All stats are from www.baseball-reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com). Here we go:

Avg. Runs*: Frank 111 (no. 3); Sosa 105 (no. 4); leader Foxx and Greenberg (tie - 122)
Avg. 2B*: Frank 37 (no. 2); Sosa 26 (no. 9); leader Greenberg (44)
Avg. HR*: Frank 36 (no. 5); Sosa 43 (no. 1); leader Sosa
Avg. RBI*: Frank 123 (no. 3); Sosa 116 (no. 4); leader Greenberg (148)
Avg. BB*: Frank 123 (no. 1); Sosa 64 (tie no. 8); leader Frank
Avg. SO*: Frank 92 (tie no. 1); Sosa 158 (no. 11); leader Frank and Foxx
Career Avg.: Frank .314 (no. 2); Sosa .278 (no. 8); leader Foxx (.325)
Career OBP: Frank .432 (no. 1); Sosa .348 (no. 9); leader Frank
Career SLG: Frank .568 (no. 3); Sosa .546 (no. 4); leader Foxx (.609)
Career OPS: Frank 1.000 (no. 3); Sosa .894 (no. 4); leader Foxx (1.037)
No. of MVPs: Frank 2 (tie no. 2); Sosa 1 (tie no. 4); leader Foxx (3)
No. of Top 10 MVP: Frank 8 (tie no. 4); Sosa 6 (tie no. 6); leader Foxx (14)
Career Rank - OPS: Frank 10th all time (no. 3); Sosa 65th all time (no. 4); leader Foxx (4th all time)
No. of times All-Star: Frank 5 (no. 11); Sosa 6 (tie - no. 8); leader Jackson (14)
No. of times Top 10 total bases: Frank 8 (tie - no. 6); Sosa 9 (tie - no. 4); leader Foxx (12)
No. of times top 10 OBP: Frank 8 (tie - no. 3); Sosa 1 (no. 10); leader Foxx (12)
Career Rank - OBP: Frank 9th all time (no. 1); Sosa ? (not top 100); leader Frank
Career HRs: Frank 376 (no. 10); Sosa 499 (no. 6); leader Killebrew (573)
Career RBIs: Frank 1285 (no. 10); Sosa 1347 (no. 9); leader Foxx (1922)
No. of times top 10 HR: Frank 7 (tie - no. 10); Sosa 10 (tie - no. 4); leaders Foxx, Killebrew and Jackson (tie - 13)
No. of times top 10 RBI: Frank 8 (tie - no. 6); Sosa 7 (tie - no. 8); leader Foxx (13)

* Per 162 games

My conclusion: Frank is clearly a HOFer. And Jimmie Foxx was friggin' scary awesome. In a group of 8 hall of famers, 1 certain to be hall of famer (Sosa), and 1 likely to be hall of famer (Dawson), Frank clearly holds his own and is clearly in the top half of that group overall.

I hope that all makes sense.



I think Frank wants to finish his career with a ring and then let his numbers speak for themselves, which as you point out are HoF worthy.

My only regret with Hurt is that he didn't stay at first base.

idseer
02-22-2003, 10:39 AM
the flaw in this observation to me is the fact that your first ten items on the list are percentage figures.
it's always been my contention that the only thing frank is short on in being elected is quantity not quality. as an exaggerated example, someone could conceivably lead ALL those catagories yet only play 3 seasons. is that a hall of famer?

i STILL believe frank needs at least 2 more solid years of frank like numbers to be elected and that it has nothing to do with his average yearly numbers.

TheBigHurt
02-22-2003, 01:09 PM
my opinion, BIG FRANK needs 1 more solid season to be a shoe-in HOFer

Bmr31
02-22-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
my opinion, BIG FRANK needs 1 more solid season to be a shoe-in HOFer

Nah its going to take more than that. If Frank can string together 3 more solid seasons, hes pretty much got it......

idseer
02-22-2003, 02:12 PM
like i said ... 2 more years of frank-like numbers gives him a 15 year career with over 2200 hits, over 1350 runs, 1500 rbi's, 430+ hr's, and 1500 walks. add these stats to his already impressive averages and he's a shoo in.

voodoochile
02-22-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by idseer
like i said ... 2 more years of frank-like numbers gives him a 15 year career with over 2200 hits, over 1350 runs, 1500 rbi's, 430+ hr's, and 1500 walks. add these stats to his already impressive averages and he's a shoo in.

It's money time for Frank anyway. I know he want's to finish his career with an OPS > 1.0, and that is where he sits to date. Another off year (by the standards he has set) and it goes down, but one more good year would probably guarantee him finishing over 1.00 after 15 seasons.

Anyone know if any player has a career over 1.00 and 15 seasons in the majors and he ISN'T in the HOF?

Jjav829
02-22-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
It's money time for Frank anyway. I know he want's to finish his career with an OPS > 1.0, and that is where he sits to date. Another off year (by the standards he has set) and it goes down, but one more good year would probably guarantee him finishing over 1.00 after 15 seasons.

Anyone know if any player has a career over 1.00 and 15 seasons in the majors and he ISN'T in the HOF?

No. Every retired player with a career OPS over 1.00 is in the HOF. Besides that he has 9 season with 100 RBI's, 100 walks and 100 runs. Only Ruth and Gehrig had more seasons like that. He should be in the HOF easily, DH or not.

MattSharp
02-23-2003, 02:07 AM
Wow. You know I am huge Frank fan. Always have been, well since CFisk retired. I really never looked at the numbers like that until now. I hear the word "Future hall of famer" thrown around a lot, but if these guys all retire around the same time its gonna take a while to get them all in. I mean at 1B alone, look at Palmeiro and Bagwell's numbers. Palmeiros seem better all around and Bagwells are real close. With all of the good players in the league right now closing in on retiring I don't think Thomas will be a first ballot HOF but he could make it eventually.