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kermittheefrog
02-17-2003, 05:20 PM
It's with A's pitching coach Rick Peterson who was once a coach in the Sox organization.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20030217keri.shtml

Daver
02-17-2003, 06:26 PM
They don't do things much differently from 90% of the teams at the MLB level,and they still haven't grasped the fact that the best way to avoid injury is to have the pitchers throw more,not less.

Bmr31
02-17-2003, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by daver
They don't do things much differently from 90% of the teams at the MLB level,and they still haven't grasped the fact that the best way to avoid injury is to have the pitchers throw more,not less.

Can you elaborate? I just saw Koch and Manuel have different views on how many innings Koch will get. Koch wants the ball, but same say he was overworked, causing his effectiveness to drop in September and the playoffs.

Daver
02-17-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Can you elaborate? I just saw Koch and Manuel have different views on how many innings Koch will get. Koch wants the ball, but same say he was overworked, causing his effectiveness to drop in September and the playoffs.

I was not referring to in game pitching,but this will relate to that too.

To put it plain and simple,there is a theory,Tommy John is one of the beleivers in it BTW,that pitchers do not throw enough,period.They should throw everyday,in a controlled regimen that starts out as short toss and progresses into long toss,all done away from the mound,and done for at least an hour and a half a day,everyday,unless that is the day you pitch in the rotation.

The goal is to build the muscles in the shoulder and the elbow to help them deal with the unnatural motion caused by pitching. I happen to be a beleiver in this theory,in my opinion get rid of pitch counts and the radar gun entirely and make the pitching coach know his job,in some extent Don Cooper agrees with me,Jerry Manuel does not,but then again Nardi Contreas is one of his best freinds.

Lip Man 1
02-17-2003, 09:28 PM
Jack McDowell in his WSI Interview said that Peterson was the best coach he ever had and that it was a big loss for the Sox organization when they let him go.

Lip

Daver
02-17-2003, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Jack McDowell in his WSI Interview said that Peterson was the best coach he ever had and that it was a big loss for the Sox organization when they let him go.

Lip

With no offense to Jack, or Peterson,had they followed the system I outlined in this thread there is a chance Jack would still be pitching as opposed to selling records.

jeremyb1
02-17-2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by daver
I was not referring to in game pitching,but this will relate to that too.

To put it plain and simple,there is a theory,Tommy John is one of the beleivers in it BTW,that pitchers do not throw enough,period.They should throw everyday,in a controlled regimen that starts out as short toss and progresses into long toss,all done away from the mound,and done for at least an hour and a half a day,everyday,unless that is the day you pitch in the rotation.

The goal is to build the muscles in the shoulder and the elbow to help them deal with the unnatural motion caused by pitching. I happen to be a beleiver in this theory,in my opinion get rid of pitch counts and the radar gun entirely and make the pitching coach know his job,in some extent Don Cooper agrees with me,Jerry Manuel does not,but then again Nardi Contreas is one of his best freinds.

well which is it? throwing more frequently or throwing a greater number of pitches? as the article explains peterson has had numerous talks with james andrews about how to preserve pitchers' health. with all due respect to hawk harrelson and tommy john, i give the more weight to comments made by arguably the best, most well respected sports surgeon in the world than ex-ballplayers.

Lip Man 1
02-17-2003, 09:37 PM
Daver:

I don't know. Jack had to retire because of a surgical accident. His forearm muscle was tramatized by an arthroscope. (I never did ask Jack if he sued the doctor over that but I'm assuming he did...)

Lip

Daver
02-17-2003, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Daver:

I don't know. Jack had to retire because of a surgical accident. His forearm muscle was tramatized by an arthroscope. (I never did ask Jack if he sued the doctor over that but I'm assuming he did...)

Lip

If he didn't seek legal recompense I would be amazed,that being said,I did not fully consider the extent of his injury.

My point remains though,had he followed the regimen I outlined,under a competent pithing coach, his original injury may have been averted.

Procol Harum
02-17-2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
well which is it? throwing more frequently or throwing a greater number of pitches? as the article explains peterson has had numerous talks with james andrews about how to preserve pitchers' health. with all due respect to hawk harrelson and tommy john, i give the more weight to comments made by arguably the best, most well respected sports surgeon in the world than ex-ballplayers.

At some point history and experience should have a word on this matter--the historical fact for decades in baseball was that pitchers would throw a lot more, starters would pitch every three days, and be left in deeper into the game--you had all sorts of guys who would pitch for years and years. Now--since the advent of enlightened sports medicine--it seems like the normal career of most pitchers is to flame out after a comparetively short career--in spite of pitch counts, 4-day rests between starts, advances in surgery, etc., etc. Something's wrong with this picture. I'd say that Tommy John--who worked under fabled Sox pitching coach Ray Berres who was a steadfast supporter of old baseball tradition--the need for constant throwing--probably has it right on this one.