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HootieMcBoob
08-14-2001, 01:44 PM
It's from the cubune's chicagosports.com, but it's still good.

http://www.chicagosports.com/whitesox/content/story/0,1984,159620,00.html

Also click on the article about burly and the "stats & stuff"

Kilroy
08-14-2001, 01:51 PM
No kidding. That's why dropping those last 2 in Seattle hurt so much. Saturday we woulda gained on both Minn and Cleve.

We got Texas coming followed by the hottest team in the league, Oakland. We need all three of these against Texas. Then take what we can get against Oakland. After that they should run off 10 straight against KC, Tampa, and Det. We could be sitting real pretty by then.

rmusacch
08-14-2001, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
No kidding. That's why dropping those last 2 in Seattle hurt so much. Saturday we woulda gained on both Minn and Cleve.

We got Texas coming followed by the hottest team in the league, Oakland. We need all three of these against Texas. Then take what we can get against Oakland. After that they should run off 10 straight against KC, Tampa, and Det. We could be sitting real pretty by then.

With the way this outfit has been playing, we will be lucky to go .500 in that stretch.

Kilroy
08-14-2001, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch
With the way this outfit has been playing, we will be lucky to go .500 in that stretch.

I don't agree with that at all. They just played three games against the best team in baseball in which they should have won 2 of the 3, and could have won them all. Even still, they played the M's tough, and showed that they can compete. If they can't carry that against these teams coming up, then they don't deserve to be in the running.

rmusacch
08-14-2001, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


I don't agree with that at all. They just played three games against the best team in baseball in which they should have won 2 of the 3, and could have won them all. Even still, they played the M's tough, and showed that they can compete. If they can't carry that against these teams coming up, then they don't deserve to be in the running.

I am not going based on just the Seattle series. They lost 2 of 3 to Anaheim. They should have lost two of 3. They had no business winning Friday night just like Seattle had no business winning Saturday night. Every time they get to .500. they have this ****ing mental block that they cannot win and get to over .500 and if they do, they lose again. Don't know what the deal is. I hope you are right but I just don't see it.

Bmr31
08-14-2001, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
No kidding. That's why dropping those last 2 in Seattle hurt so much. Saturday we woulda gained on both Minn and Cleve.

We got Texas coming followed by the hottest team in the league, Oakland. We need all three of these against Texas. Then take what we can get against Oakland. After that they should run off 10 straight against KC, Tampa, and Det. We could be sitting real pretty by then.


Drugs? Drugs anyone? run off 10 straight? youre kidding right? this current sox team couldnt run off ten straight against anyone. TO expect that is absolutely ridiculous. Expect the sox to win 5 or 6 of those 10. thats realistic....

Kilroy
08-14-2001, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Drugs? Drugs anyone? run off 10 straight? youre kidding right? this current sox team couldnt run off ten straight against anyone. TO expect that is absolutely ridiculous. Expect the sox to win 5 or 6 of those 10. thats realistic....

I'll admit that the Sox winning 10 straight is optimistic, but certainly not impossible against KC, Tampa, and Detroit. Expecting 5 or 6 wins is very unambitious, and borderline corwardice.

The Sox are better than those teams, plain and simple. They CAN win all 10 of those games if they get their heads out of their a$$es, specifically CLee and Durham, and play like they want it. Will they? I can't say a resounding "yes" here, but I expect that they will win at least 8 of those games.

Procol Harum
08-14-2001, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy

The Sox are better than those teams, plain and simple. They CAN win all 10 of those games if they get their heads out of their a$$es, specifically CLee and Durham, and play like they want it. Will they? I can't say a resounding "yes" here, but I expect that they will win at least 8 of those games.

Kilroy, dude--this team as currently constituted cannot win ten in a row against anybody. The only thing that's kept their butts in this "race" is the fact that Minnesota lost Radke and has finally started to play to their overall ability whilst Cleveland is simply mediocre. The only way we can "win" this division is if both the Tribe and the Twinks totally self-destruct and the Sox start to play reasonably over .500 from here-on out. Even under that miraculous scenario--and believe me it would be particularly delicious in light of another el-foldo by the Flubs--the Sox would undoubtedly make a quick exit from the first round of the playoffs. Enjoy the development of the young pitchers and Aaron Rowand and have fun discussing possible moves for 2002--this one is done.

Procol Harum
08-14-2001, 05:51 PM
Jonathan Hood has been hosting in place of the recently-canned Les Grobstein overnight on the Score and has a hilarious shtick poking fun at Manuel's continued happy-talk about the Sox being in the thick of the playoff race. "All we need to do is take 12 of the next 14, two of the next one, 19 of the next 23, eight of the next five etc., etc" As I believe Hood is a Sox fan it's all the funnier 'cuz it's typical Sox fan moxie--we hate folks who tee-tee in our ears and tell us it's raining.

Kilroy
08-14-2001, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Procol Harum


Kilroy, dude--this team as currently constituted cannot win ten in a row against anybody. The only thing that's kept their butts in this "race" is the fact that Minnesota lost Radke and has finally started to play to their overall ability whilst Cleveland is simply mediocre.

You know what? The only reason this season might be done is because some of the players think just like you do. And that is sad. Why is it unreasonable to expect Carlos Lee can hit better than the .207 he's hit since the all star break? Or that Durham can get going and hit better than he has? Both of those players are much better than we've seen from them this season.

Furthermore, it's not like the Sox haven't already played these teams well enuf to beat them this season. So the defeated stance you have makes even less sense given that. There is absolutely no reason why the Sox cannot make a run 7.5 games back with 7 weeks left to play. None.

Bmr31
08-14-2001, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by Procol Harum


Kilroy, dude--this team as currently constituted cannot win ten in a row against anybody. The only thing that's kept their butts in this "race" is the fact that Minnesota lost Radke and has finally started to play to their overall ability whilst Cleveland is simply mediocre. The only way we can "win" this division is if both the Tribe and the Twinks totally self-destruct and the Sox start to play reasonably over .500 from here-on out. Even under that miraculous scenario--and believe me it would be particularly delicious in light of another el-foldo by the Flubs--the Sox would undoubtedly make a quick exit from the first round of the playoffs. Enjoy the development of the young pitchers and Aaron Rowand and have fun discussing possible moves for 2002--this one is done.


wow i was just SLAMMED the other night for speaking this obvious truth....

Bmr31
08-14-2001, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


You know what? The only reason this season might be done is because some of the players think just like you do. And that is sad. Why is it unreasonable to expect Carlos Lee can hit better than the .207 he's hit since the all star break? Or that Durham can get going and hit better than he has? Both of those players are much better than we've seen from them this season.

Furthermore, it's not like the Sox haven't already played these teams well enuf to beat them this season. So the defeated stance you have makes even less sense given that. There is absolutely no reason why the Sox cannot make a run 7.5 games back with 7 weeks left to play. None.


youre high as a kite or just plain stupid, im not sure which...

FarWestChicago
08-14-2001, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31



youre high as a kite or just plain stupid, im not sure which...

Please keep the straight ahead personal insults in The Parking Lot. Thank you

Kilroy
08-14-2001, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31



youre high as a kite or just plain stupid, im not sure which...

either way, I got more goin on than you do.

Bmr31
08-14-2001, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


either way, I got more goin on than you do.

ya think? lol :)

Procol Harum
08-14-2001, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


You know what? The only reason this season might be done is because some of the players think just like you do. And that is sad. Why is it unreasonable to expect Carlos Lee can hit better than the .207 he's hit since the all star break? Or that Durham can get going and hit better than he has? Both of those players are much better than we've seen from them this season.

Furthermore, it's not like the Sox haven't already played these teams well enuf to beat them this season. So the defeated stance you have makes even less sense given that. There is absolutely no reason why the Sox cannot make a run 7.5 games back with 7 weeks left to play. None.

Spare me the Norman Vincent Peale/Anthony Robbins spiel, Kilroy. The only slim, slim chance we have is to back into the playoffs through the absolute mediocrity of Minnesota and the Injuns and hoping that this team can go--say--25-20 thru the rest of the season. The last 6 weeks have shown little promise that even that level of play is sustainable, to say nothing of some sort of massive tear with MN and Cleveland playing decent--not great--decent--baseball. Just do the math--and we'll leave Minnesota outta this 'cuz I think there's every evidence that they're done--if Cleveland plays under .500 baseball in their last 44 games (let's say they go 20-24--a stretch) the Sox would have to go 28-17 in their last 45 games just to TIE. Do you realistically see much chance of that happening? And what about if the Indians go 24-20 in that stretch--a much more likely outcome? Do you think this Sox team could manage a 33-12 record to finish one game ahead of the Tribe? Our only chance is if the Tribe falls apart like the Twins seem to be doing and finish up with something like a 16-28 and the Sox can manage to go 25-20. But this is extremely unlikely.

If you need specifics as to why the Sox will 999 to 1 not do this how about the following:

1.) Lack of overall team speed (hence not enough steals, too many double plays, tendency toward station-to-station baseball, etc., etc.).
2.) Young pitching staff (they're good and I'm excited as all get out about their future but for a take-no-prisoners pennant run like I've laid out above for THIS year....nope).
3.) A poor situational hitting team (advancing runners, sacrificing, hit and run, etc., etc.--we surely stink in this regard).
4.) An inconsistent, all-or-nothing offense (when we start hitting home runs we look good but if we have to get ducks off the pond otherwise we are truly hurting because of points 1 and 3).
5.) Average team defense.
6.) Mediocre set-up men in the bullpen.
7.) Ray Durham.

Now if we address some of these shortcomings next year, get a healthy Frank Thomas back, and the young pitchers develop as they look like they might then I'm bullish on our chances for 2002 and the next few years. If the unbelievable does happen this year and the Sox make a miraculous comeback--great!! I'll be out dancing with all the other Sox fans. But let's get real about our chances in 2001--they are slim and none and Slim was seen at O'Hare during that stretch with Cleveland, Minnesota, and Boston.

Bmr31
08-14-2001, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by Procol Harum


Spare me the Norman Vincent Peale/Anthony Robbins spiel, Kilroy. The only slim, slim chance we have is to back into the playoffs through the absolute mediocrity of Minnesota and the Injuns and hoping that this team can go--say--25-20 thru the rest of the season. The last 6 weeks have shown little promise that even that level of play is sustainable, to say nothing of some sort of massive tear with MN and Cleveland playing decent--not great--decent--baseball. Just do the math--and we'll leave Minnesota outta this 'cuz I think there's every evidence that they're done--if Cleveland plays under .500 baseball in their last 44 games (let's say they go 20-24--a stretch) the Sox would have to go 28-17 in their last 45 games just to TIE. Do you realistically see much chance of that happening? And what about if the Indians go 24-20 in that stretch--a much more likely outcome? Do you think this Sox team could manage a 33-12 record to finish one game ahead of the Tribe? Our only chance is if the Tribe falls apart like the Twins seem to be doing and finish up with something like a 16-28 and the Sox can manage to go 25-20. But this is extremely unlikely.

If you need specifics as to why the Sox will 999 to 1 not do this how about the following:

1.) Lack of overall team speed (hence not enough steals, too many double plays, tendency toward station-to-station baseball, etc., etc.).
2.) Young pitching staff (they're good and I'm excited as all get out about their future but for a take-no-prisoners pennant run like I've laid out above for THIS year....nope).
3.) A poor situational hitting team (advancing runners, sacrificing, hit and run, etc., etc.--we surely stink in this regard).
4.) An inconsistent, all-or-nothing offense (when we start hitting home runs we look good but if we have to get ducks off the pond otherwise we are truly hurting because of points 1 and 3).
5.) Average team defense.
6.) Mediocre set-up men in the bullpen.
7.) Ray Durham.

Now if we address some of these shortcomings next year, get a healthy Frank Thomas back, and the young pitchers develop as they look like they might then I'm bullish on our chances for 2002 and the next few years. If the unbelievable does happen this year and the Sox make a miraculous comeback--great!! I'll be out dancing with all the other Sox fans. But let's get real about our chances in 2001--they are slim and none and Slim was seen at O'Hare during that stretch with Cleveland, Minnesota, and Boston.

ya think? :)

Procol Harum
08-14-2001, 11:39 PM
I does :)

Bmr31
08-14-2001, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
I does :)


me does too :)

Nellie_Fox
08-15-2001, 12:17 AM
wow i was just SLAMMED the other night for speaking this obvious truth....

Well now, let's see. Why could that be? Maybe.......

youre high as a kite or just plain stupid, im not sure which...

because you make your statements as abrasive as possible?

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox


Well now, let's see. Why could that be? Maybe.......



because you make your statements as abrasive as possible?




could be? who cares? I dont mind being slammed at all, as long as im wrong. When im not wrong, it just makes the others look like fools....

Nellie_Fox
08-15-2001, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31


could be? who cares? I dont mind being slammed at all, as long as im wrong. When im not wrong, it just makes the others look like fools....

Just curious, have you ever admitted to being wrong?

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox


Just curious, have you ever admitted to being wrong?


when i have been wrong? absolutely. Ask anyone who has known me for awhile, ive admitted im wrong many times. The thing is, im right much more than im wrong. Pick the times im wrong to slam me.... :)

voodoochile
08-15-2001, 08:01 AM
if Cleveland plays under .500 baseball in their last 44 games (let's say they go 20-24--a stretch) the Sox would have to go 28-17 in their last 45 games just to TIE. Do you realistically see much chance of that happening? And what about if the Indians go 24-20 in that stretch--a much more likely outcome? Do you think this Sox team could manage a 33-12 record to finish one game ahead of the Tribe? Our only chance is if the Tribe falls apart like the Twins seem to be doing and finish up with something like a 16-28 and the Sox can manage to go 25-20. But this is extremely unlikely.

I can see Cleveland playing under .500 from here on out. If you look at their schedule they could conceivably come out of August only 5 games over. The whole idea of the Sox winning the division is based on that possibility. Of course the Sox also have to find a way to win big games against quality opponents when they don't play their best. Have they done that? No, but recently they have played Seattle tough and won a game aginst Texas that could they could have given up on. Instead they won as a team last night. Is it probable? No... But, it is still possible. You admit as much with your 999-1 odds... Personally I don't think they are that low, because I think Cleveland is in major trouble over the next 4 weeks. Will you change your opinion if the Sox can get within 5 in the next 10 days or so?

Here's the formula for the Sox making the playoffs...

(this is going to shock you all, I know...)

Soundly beat the teams we're supposed to (KC, TB, Texas, Detroit)
Win the series we have to (Cleveland, Minneota) (a sweep or 2 would come in handy)
Hope for Cleveland to get spanked by Boston, Seattle, Oakland and Annaheim (and hopefully Minnesota, though that looks unlikely)
Finish the season with 87 wins and hope for the best...

The unbalanced schedule is our biggest ally. If this is 2000, the Sox would already be done with the top teams in the division, but with 14 games remaining, the Sox destiny is in their own hands. Now, all they need to do is win...

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 08:20 AM
heres the formula for me winning the lottery.......come on now voodoo :)

Iguana775
08-15-2001, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy


The Sox are better than those teams, plain and simple. They CAN win all 10 of those games if they get their heads out of their a$$es, specifically CLee and Durham, and play like they want it. Will they? I can't say a resounding "yes" here, but I expect that they will win at least 8 of those games.

yea.....ray and lee need to come around. maggs is finally coming around and if we get all them clicking, winning 10 wouldnt be that much of a stretch. remeber, we ran off 8 straight earlier in the season.

voodoochile
08-15-2001, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31
heres the formula for me winning the lottery.......come on now voodoo :)

Are you saying the odds on winning the division are no better than the lottery which is the same as being hit by lightning twice?

BMR, the unknown variable in all of this is Cleveland. They may come completely unglued in the next 4 weeks. That is what most of us are hoping for. Can the Sox go 40-4? No. Can they get to 87 wins with the schedule they have, the talent they have and the opponents they play? Sure, but they have to play up to their potential, and not like the mediocre team they have been up until now...

Kilroy
08-15-2001, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
...the unknown variable in all of this is Cleveland. They may come completely unglued in the next 4 weeks...

I don't think the Injuns need to come unglued. They aren't that damn good to begin with. If they end up winning the central, would anyone expect them to do anything in the playoffs?

The Sox have schedule in their favor right now, with the exception of Oakland coming in. While the Sox are playing KC, TB, and DET, the Tribe has Oak, Sea, and Bos. They could very easily lose 7-8 of those 10 while the Sox could win 8 of 10 during the same stretch. If Tor, KC, and Tex could do some damage w/ Min, who have played pretty poorly since getting rid of Lawton, this stretch of games could make the division race pretty interesting at the very least.

voodoochile
08-15-2001, 10:01 AM
I don't think the Injuns need to come unglued. They aren't that damn good to begin with. If they end up winning the central, would anyone expect them to do anything in the playoffs?

Not me... I know they will get spanked by whomever they play. I agree the Tribe just needs to play down to their capabilities and they will lose a bunch the rest of the month...

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Are you saying the odds on winning the division are no better than the lottery which is the same as being hit by lightning twice?

BMR, the unknown variable in all of this is Cleveland. They may come completely unglued in the next 4 weeks. That is what most of us are hoping for. Can the Sox go 40-4? No. Can they get to 87 wins with the schedule they have, the talent they have and the opponents they play? Sure, but they have to play up to their potential, and not like the mediocre team they have been up until now...

Are the indians a great team? No, but at this point, they are better than the sox. You are expecting the sox to make up 8 games, in a short period, on a better team. I love the sox with all my heart, but that aint gonna happen.

Iwritecode
08-15-2001, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


Are the indians a great team? No, but at this point, they are better than the sox. You are expecting the sox to make up 8 games, in a short period, on a better team. I love the sox with all my heart, but that aint gonna happen.

The toons are 17 - 16 since the break. 3 of those wins came against Minn who seemed to have completely lost it... The Sox are 17 - 15. So since the all-star game they haven't been any better than the Sox. Plus, they still have a losing record against us.

voodoochile
08-15-2001, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


Are the indians a great team? No, but at this point, they are better than the sox. You are expecting the sox to make up 8 games, in a short period, on a better team. I love the sox with all my heart, but that aint gonna happen.

I don't necessarily agree that the Tribe is a a better team. They have a better offense and defense, but their starters just flat suck and their bullpen has been playing like crap recently. If Bartolo and CC struggle at all the Tribe could finish at or close to .500 because the rest of their starters are finished. That team needs to score 7 runs a game against average and above average offenses, which the Sox still have the potential to be if they can start hitting on all cylenders. It won't be easy, but it isn't impossible.

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode


The toons are 17 - 16 since the break. 3 of those wins came against Minn who seemed to have completely lost it... The Sox are 17 - 15. So since the all-star game they haven't been any better than the Sox. Plus, they still have a losing record against us.


THats nice. The indians have a better team than the sox.

Iwritecode
08-15-2001, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
THats nice. The indians have a better team than the sox.

That's your opinion.

Kilroy
08-15-2001, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
I love the sox with all my heart, but that aint gonna happen.

No reason to doubt your love for the Sox, that's for sure. But just take a minute and consider this. The Injuns are maybe just a bit better than mediorce at best. Oakland is the hottest team in the league, just having an 11-12 game win streak snapped last night. The M's are the best team in the league by far. The Injuns are 1-2 against the A's and 1-3 vs the M's. So say they take one game in each series. So they win 2 and lose 5. At the same time, the Sox have KC and Tampa. The Sox are 6-3 vs KC, and 3-1 vs Tampa. There's no reason the Sox can't get 5 of the 7 vs those two teams. If that were to come to pass, 2.5 games separate the Injuns and the Sox. Of course Minn still has to be considered, but they are having trouble beating anyone right now. They are 9-23 since the break. They have 4 against the Jays, and then 3 against KC, one of the few teams that they have beaten lately.

In any case, speaking realistically, not just with my passion, the Sox do have a chance to make things quite a bit closer in the next 12-15 days.

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode


That's your opinion.

yeah, and an educated one, formulated from my head and not my heart.

Iwritecode
08-15-2001, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


yeah, and an educated one, formulated from my head and not my heart.

An educated opinion? That's a new one on me. What exactly are you basing this on anyway? WIn/loss record? Head to head record? Pitching staff? Offense? Defense?

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode


An educated opinion? That's a new one on me. What exactly are you basing this on anyway? WIn/loss record? Head to head record? Pitching staff? Offense? Defense?


uhh, talent? Thats a good one.

voodoochile
08-15-2001, 06:26 PM
uhh, talent? Thats a good one.

As defined by whom? All positions? Pitchers too? Past success? Current year? Come on.. Elaborate on that please...

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


As defined by whom? All positions? Pitchers too? Past success? Current year? Come on.. Elaborate on that please...

elaborate on talent? we have a lack of proven talent on our team, due to injuries and youth. Those type of teams dont finish above .500 and certainly dont win divisions. See the minnesota twins....

voodoochile
08-15-2001, 07:36 PM
I guess I disagree with that statement. The only area that the Sox lack "proven talent" is in pitching (well our defense isn't great either), Yet whose pitching staff would you rather have right now, Cleveland's or ours?

As to hitting, the fact that our "talented" players have not lived up to expectations in no way means they are not "talented" or even talented enough.

True, everyone on the Sox needs to start playing up to their portential for the season to finish on a high note, but there is nothing to say that cannot or will not happen.

You don't really believe that players like Magglio, Konerko, Lee, Valentin and Durham aren't talented enough to get on an offensive roll do you?

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I guess I disagree with that statement. The only area that the Sox lack "proven talent" is in pitching (well our defense isn't great either), Yet whose pitching staff would you rather have right now, Cleveland's or ours?

As to hitting, the fact that our "talented" players have not lived up to expectations in no way means they are not "talented" or even talented enough.

True, everyone on the Sox needs to start playing up to their portential for the season to finish on a high note, but there is nothing to say that cannot or will not happen.

You don't really believe that players like Magglio, Konerko, Lee, Valentin and Durham aren't talented enough to get on an offensive roll do you?

dude we have talent. Half of it is on the DL. Our current players can not and will not win this division.

Procol Harum
08-15-2001, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Is it probable? No... But, it is still possible. You admit as much with your 999-1 odds... Personally I don't think they are that low, because I think Cleveland is in major trouble over the next 4 weeks. Will you change your opinion if the Sox can get within 5 in the next 10 days or so?

Finish the season with 87 wins and hope for the best...

The unbalanced schedule is our biggest ally. If this is 2000, the Sox would already be done with the top teams in the division, but with 14 games remaining, the Sox destiny is in their own hands. Now, all they need to do is win...

Voodoo, if the Sox can creep to within 5 games in the next 10 games then the "best possible" scenario has already begun to come into effect. Of course then I and all Sox fans would be paying a lot closer attention in the hopes that the miracle might just happen. And that would probably have meant we won the Texas series and played Oakland pretty well, and taken the series from both KC and Tampa. In other words we would be showing signs of NOT playing the way we have been playing the last 6 weeks. It's a lot more likely that we'll go something like 6-5 in the next 11 games.

Would I like the Sox to catch fire again? Sho'nuff!! Do I think it at all likely--Nope, we've got too many serious flaws as enumerated in my previous lengthy post. Would I love to be proven wrong about this? Yeah, baby!!

voodoochile
08-15-2001, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


dude we have talent. Half of it is on the DL. Our current players can not and will not win this division.

See, the only players on the DL that I think matter are Frank and some veteran relief pitchers. Now while I agree that Frank is a huge loss, the loss, Canseco can and has been giving the sox some run production from the DH slot.

The RP situation worries me more, but the starters are doing so much better than any of us had hoped for that some of that washes out.

I want to clarify someting here so there is no misunderstanding on your part. I am not some starry eyed dreamer who thinks that the Sox are going to magically "WAKE UP" tomorrow and start tearing teams a new one the way they did in 2000. I do think that with the obvious problems that Cleveland and Minnesota have the Sox still have a chance, not because they are something amazing, but because the other teams are struggling and Cleveland has the schedule from hell these next 4 weeks. If the Sox can get to within 3 games by the end of the month they may just start to find a momentum shift and start to play more up to their potential.

I'm expecting 83-85 wins, hoping for 87 and hoping the Tribe falls apart... If all of that happens, then the Sox will be more than "in the race" they will be right there for the division crown come the end of September...

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


See, the only players on the DL that I think matter are Frank and some veteran relief pitchers. Now while I agree that Frank is a huge loss, the loss, Canseco can and has been giving the sox some run production from the DH slot.

The RP situation worries me more, but the starters are doing so much better than any of us had hoped for that some of that washes out.

I want to clarify someting here so there is no misunderstanding on your part. I am not some starry eyed dreamer who thinks that the Sox are going to magically "WAKE UP" tomorrow and start tearing teams a new one the way they did in 2000. I do think that with the obvious problems that Cleveland and Minnesota have the Sox still have a chance, not because they are something amazing, but because the other teams are struggling and Cleveland has the schedule from hell these next 4 weeks. If the Sox can get to within 3 games by the end of the month they may just start to find a momentum shift and start to play more up to their potential.

I'm expecting 83-85 wins, hoping for 87 and hoping the Tribe falls apart... If all of that happens, then the Sox will be more than "in the race" they will be right there for the division crown come the end of September...

LOL we arent too far apart afterall. I see the sox winning around 83 games. I guess i just give the tribe more credit than you. I see the tribe winning 90-92 games. If they fall apart? who knows. The twins are terrible.

KempersRS
08-15-2001, 09:33 PM
The twins are terrible.

They aren't a terrible team overall, right now they are. They have good pitching and when its not on, they have no shot at winning anything. Guzman is a huge spark at the top of lineup for them, he would be for any team. He has been gone for a while and the Lawton trade made no sense at all. They were playing over their heads, but they aren't THIS bad. (9-24 since break)

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


They aren't a terrible team overall, right now they are. They have good pitching and when its not on, they have no shot at winning anything. Guzman is a huge spark at the top of lineup for them, he would be for any team. He has been gone for a while and the Lawton trade made no sense at all. They were playing over their heads, but they aren't THIS bad. (9-24 since break)


oh theyre pretty bad........look at the past 3 seasons.

KempersRS
08-15-2001, 09:41 PM
oh theyre pretty bad........look at the past 3 seasons

Say what you will but the beat the hell out of us.

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


Say what you will but the beat the hell out of us.


SO????

KempersRS
08-15-2001, 09:45 PM
SO????

So they aren't terrible. Terrible teams don't win that many games.

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


So they aren't terrible. Terrible teams don't win that many games.


terrible teams get hot and win games all the time. Its called a roll, or confidence. THeyre the same team they were last year when they won 69 games. They just got on an extended roll. Lack of talent eventually catches up to you, and with them, i knew it would.

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 09:48 PM
Of course, terrible was meant for how they are playing now. All in all, theyre a below average team.

KempersRS
08-15-2001, 09:51 PM
THeyre the same team they were last year when they won 69 games.

That is so far from the truth. Thats like saying the Sox young pitchers are the same as they were last year. They are young, they are gonna mature. Just cause they have a core of the same players doesn't make them the same team, young talent takes time to develop. They had young starters taking their lumps, and they have improved. Its not the same team, talent-wise.

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


That is so far from the truth. Thats like saying the Sox young pitchers are the same as they were last year. They are young, they are gonna mature. Just cause they have a core of the same players doesn't make them the same team, young talent takes time to develop. They had young starters taking their lumps, and they have improved. Its not the same team, talent-wise.


LOL, omg, i know you didnt just compare the twins lack of talent to the sox ? Its the EXACT same team as it was last year......

KempersRS
08-15-2001, 10:27 PM
OK, go ahead, believe that luck can take a team fighting for last to a team fighting for first.

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
OK, go ahead, believe that luck can take a team fighting for last to a team fighting for first.

when the hell did i mention the word luck?

KempersRS
08-15-2001, 10:33 PM
BMR, you have been causing a lot of controversey on the boards you gotta admit. And you are right when you say "I never said these exact words" and such. But you gotta realize the way things are perceived from you. Obviously I am not the only seeing it this way.

Jerry_Manuel
08-15-2001, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
BMR, you have been causing a lot of controversey on the boards you gotta admit

Every message board needs someone who can stir the pot. And we have BMR.

KempersRS
08-15-2001, 10:40 PM
Every message board needs someone who can stir the pot. And we have BMR.

For sure, it keeps things interesting if we disagree on stuff, I just think BMR has been a little too defensive about some of it. They aren't personal attacks, its no big deal.

WinningUgly!
08-15-2001, 10:59 PM
Our current players can not and will not win this division.

I agree that over the past month or so, the Sox have not played like a team that has what it takes to make a run, but it's not like we have the M's & A's ahead of us! The Twinkies might as well move the franchise to the Phillipines & become the Manilla Folders, cause they're done. The Tribe's team ERA is rapidly approaching 6.00!! These teams are not running away with anything. I understand "being realistic", but when people start saying "can not" & "will not" about my team it kinda chaps my hide! It's even worse when it comes from supposed Sox fans.....
Our current players can not and will not win this division.
I guess I don't need to waste my time watching anymore games this year! That line almost pisses me off as much as Cerb's "I'll laugh my ass off if the Sox don't make it past the 1st round" comment from last year!
:WU

Tragg
08-15-2001, 11:11 PM
Young teams suddenly come together- not that rare. Couple that with a big home field advantage in the twinkdome when the twins are good and the crowds large. Other than valentin and eldred, we weren't much different in 2000 from 1999; remember the Tigers of 1984? They were a young team that finally matured.

The Twins made a terrible move getting rid of lawton for a so-so pitcher.

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


I agree that over the past month or so, the Sox have not played like a team that has what it takes to make a run, but it's not like we have the M's & A's ahead of us! The Twinkies might as well move the franchise to the Phillipines & become the Manilla Folders, cause they're done. The Tribe's team ERA is rapidly approaching 6.00!! These teams are not running away with anything. I understand "being realistic", but when people start saying "can not" & "will not" about my team it kinda chaps my hide! It's even worse when it comes from supposed Sox fans.....

I guess I don't need to waste my time watching anymore games this year! That line almost pisses me off as much as Cerb's "I'll laugh my ass off if the Sox don't make it past the 1st round" comment from last year!
:WU


LOL oh get over it :)

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


For sure, it keeps things interesting if we disagree on stuff, I just think BMR has been a little too defensive about some of it. They aren't personal attacks, its no big deal.

you got that right and if you think anything, that anyone says on this board bothers me, youre wrong.

Nellie_Fox
08-15-2001, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


you got that right and if you think anything, that anyone says on this board bothers me, youre wrong.

Because I am so much the intellectual superior to all of them. Why would I care what the little people think of me?

Bmr31
08-15-2001, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox


Because I am so much the intellectual superior to all of them. Why would I care what the little people think of me?


LOL, if thats the way you want to view what i said, feel free.

Bucktown
08-16-2001, 01:35 AM
10 in a row? I believe, this team is certainly capable of that. I guess we will see. It just seems like when anyone says that a players sucks that player does well and when someone say that the Sox can't pull something off they do.

My job is to remind you what you said. As for me, I have added this sig when everyone wrote the Sox off for dead and I am going to keep it until they clinch...

Bmr31
08-16-2001, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Bucktown
10 in a row? I believe, this team is certainly capable of that. I guess we will see. It just seems like when anyone says that a players sucks that player does well and when someone say that the Sox can't pull something off they do.

My job is to remind you what you said. As for me, I have added this sig when everyone wrote the Sox off for dead and I am going to keep it until they clinch...

so youll have it for at least a year? cool

Mathew
08-17-2001, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31


dude we have talent. Half of it is on the DL. Our current players can not and will not win this division.

From reading this thread I have concluded that the current team on the field is not very talented, however I take it you think we'll be good next year? Allow me to hypothysize... If we are talented when not injured, how come we lost so many games at the beginning of the season, when we did not have the injuries? If that means we aren't talented, why did these guys walk away with the division last year? The loss of CJ and the addition of Royce made the overall team worse than last year. But I think the emergence of Rowand and MJ have made us a more talented team then we began the year with. Frank is the heart and soul of the team...no doubt. But without him we are not a .500 team talent wise(current and future) we are a very talented team with no guidance,heart,desire(Frank?). I still get excited when we win and I'm sure we all do, but the differences between this year and last year and hopefully next year are not for lack of a good baseball team this year. It is for a team with no heart compared to a team that couldn't get enough. To conclude, the reason we win is because our good baseball team plays that way. These people are trying to say that if they do we will win. I don't think we'll get our heads out our asses, but to say we can't for lack of talent is ignorant.

Mathew
08-17-2001, 06:04 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31



terrible teams get hot and win games all the time. Its called a roll, or confidence. THeyre the same team they were last year when they won 69 games. They just got on an extended roll. Lack of talent eventually catches up to you, and with them, i knew it would.

Press Release From Bmr31

"The Twins cinderella story ended today when all the other teams in the league realized that they were a bad team on a very long roll and all others finally started trying to win the games played against them"

Whitesox manager Jerry Manuel was reached for comment and had this to say,

"Well we figured they were on a roll but were a bad team, that's why we LET them steamroll us 12 times this season. Since we have a good shot now we'll start trying against the Twins and all other talentless Major League teams that aren't good no matter how many games they win"

How come the Twins can get on an "extended roll" but the D-Rays and Pirates just can't get it going?

To play good baseball or at least be able to, is to be talented and the Twins have done as much this season. They are no longer the same last place team even if they go on an "Extended Slide"

voodoochile
08-17-2001, 07:53 AM
The Twins pitching is pretty damn good, the loss recently of Radke, Guzman and Lawton (dumb trade) have majorly affected their ability to play with the best teams in the division...

They just don't have the depth to overcome those losses (who does?)...

They will be a solid team in years to come if they can keep their pitching staff together and find a way to put some offensive talent on the field.

Bmr31
08-17-2001, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by Mathew


Press Release From Bmr31

"The Twins cinderella story ended today when all the other teams in the league realized that they were a bad team on a very long roll and all others finally started trying to win the games played against them"

Whitesox manager Jerry Manuel was reached for comment and had this to say,

"Well we figured they were on a roll but were a bad team, that's why we LET them steamroll us 12 times this season. Since we have a good shot now we'll start trying against the Twins and all other talentless Major League teams that aren't good no matter how many games they win"

How come the Twins can get on an "extended roll" but the D-Rays and Pirates just can't get it going?

To play good baseball or at least be able to, is to be talented and the Twins have done as much this season. They are no longer the same last place team even if they go on an "Extended Slide"


The same reason other weird occurences happen? Coincidence??

Bmr31
08-17-2001, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The Twins pitching is pretty damn good, the loss recently of Radke, Guzman and Lawton (dumb trade) have majorly affected their ability to play with the best teams in the division...

They just don't have the depth to overcome those losses (who does?)...

They will be a solid team in years to come if they can keep their pitching staff together and find a way to put some offensive talent on the field.


they better sign 3 or 4 major free agents then, they lack talent big time....

Mathew
08-19-2001, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31



they better sign 3 or 4 major free agents then, they lack talent big time....

Perhaps they should release those no talent bums, such as Radke, Guzman, Coskie, Milton, Mays. Perhaps Tampa Bay would sign them?

PaleHoseGeorge
08-19-2001, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Mathew
Perhaps they should release those no talent bums, such as Radke, Guzman, Coskie, Milton, Mays. Perhaps Tampa Bay would sign them?

I can't remember a team ever folding so quickly at this year's Twins. They couldn't even beat Tampa Bay for crying out loud!

I love how the panic is on on the north side. Houston gets to fatten up on those losers from Pittsburgh while the Flubbies get carved up by a REAL playoff team.

Problem is, Houston sucks too. They shouldn't let anybody from that crap division play in October.

Bmr31
08-19-2001, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Mathew


Perhaps they should release those no talent bums, such as Radke, Guzman, Coskie, Milton, Mays. Perhaps Tampa Bay would sign them?

was there a point to this?