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View Full Version : who the hell cares what comiskeys great granddaughter thinks


soxguy
02-13-2003, 09:54 PM
listen I hope your interviewer followed up with the statement: What do you mean comiskey stands for baseball in chicago and has deep roots in chicago? Didnt anyone ever tell you that your great grandfather was a cheapskate who along with the rest of the owners, got rich while players got poor. The reason your family lived its pampered little lifestyle was becase he made alot of money by underpaying his players and building the original comiskey on the cheap. His name is a black mark on baseball in chicago and any educated sox fan knows that. The history is all there just learn it. The problem that comiskey started still exists today in our current regime. They employ 1910 business models for running a team in 2003, WE SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED A SMALL MARKET TEAM, but we are because the owner runs his org like one. Ill take upgrades to the ball yard on 35th and sheilds anyday and a name change, if that will rid chicago of the comiskey curse. take that to the bank.

TornLabrum
02-13-2003, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by soxguy
listen I hope your interviewer followed up with the statement: What do you mean comiskey stands for baseball in chicago and has deep roots in chicago? Didnt anyone ever tell you that your great grandfather was a cheapskate who along with the rest of the owners, got rich while players got poor.

Even Charlie Comiskey's worst-paid players made more money in six months than the average working stiff did in a year. By the standards of the time, that would put them in the middle to upper-middle class.

As far as Comiskey being cheap, I refer you to Rich Lindberg's history of Sox management, "Stealing First." You might be surprised at how different Lindberg's conclusions about Comiskey are than those that have been popularlized by Elliot Asinof's work of historical fiction, "Eight Men Out" and the even more fictionalized movie of the same name.

Of much more relevance is how the Comiskey family lost title to the Sox through their own feuding.

Lip Man 1
02-13-2003, 10:36 PM
Hal:

Just wondering...did you ever get the e-mail I sent you about three days ago?

Lip

TornLabrum
02-13-2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Hal:

Just wondering...did you ever get the e-mail I sent you about three days ago?

Lip

Yeah, I'm considering things and will get back to you shortly!

TornLabrum
02-13-2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Even Charlie Comiskey's worst-paid players made more money in six months than the average working stiff did in a year. By the standards of the time, that would put them in the middle to upper-middle class.

As far as Comiskey being cheap, I refer you to Rich Lindberg's history of Sox management, "Stealing First." You might be surprised at how different Lindberg's conclusions about Comiskey are than those that have been popularlized by Elliot Asinof's work of historical fiction, "Eight Men Out" and the even more fictionalized movie of the same name.

Of much more relevance is how the Comiskey family lost title to the Sox through their own feuding.

This topic has also been going on today on the White Sox Mailing List. Someone brought up the supposed benching of Cicotte so he couldn't win 30 games. I mentioned Lindberg's book and someone found the following web site that lists the same facts. http://www.thediamondangle.com/marasco/hist/cicotte.html

If you believed the story in "Eight Men Out," this might be revealing to you. The story in the movie just plain couldn't have happened.

DVG
02-15-2003, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
This topic has also been going on today on the White Sox Mailing List. Someone brought up the supposed benching of Cicotte so he couldn't win 30 games. I mentioned Lindberg's book and someone found the following web site that lists the same facts. http://www.thediamondangle.com/marasco/hist/cicotte.html

If you believed the story in "Eight Men Out," this might be revealing to you. The story in the movie just plain couldn't have happened.

Hal, that link is great. It is a relief to see that some people are now bothering to do research before they write something, which is more than can be said for the hotshot Burns boys, Eliot Asinof or John Sayles.

Incidentally, I need to check this out because it's been a few
years since I read "Eight Men Out," but I believe the whole Cicotte myth is based on 1 single line from the book, to the effect of "...it was said that Comiskey had him benched." That was it. I don't know if Asinof interviewed Cicotte for the book, but if he did it wouldn't surprise me if he got that story from him or another Black Sox who didn't know any better. By that time the surviving ones were bitter old men coming up with excuses for why they did it, just like any dishonest person or criminal.

I'm glad that you also pointed out the obvious-that no one on the
Sox of that era was ready for a bread line. Besides, other play-
ers like Schalk and Kerr were paid the same scale and remained
clean. What was their excuse?

It is ridiculous to throw the blame for the scandal on Comiskey.
We are forgetting who the true criminals were in this case. The
players did what they did out of greed and got what they
deserved.

wassagstdu
02-15-2003, 10:05 AM
Why do people insist on excusing this atrocity by (a) denigrating the Comiskey name, and (b) implying this money play has ANYTHING to do with winning on the field? I don't know or care anything about Charles Comiskey himself. I know that the first all-star game was played in Comiskey Park, where the White Sox baseball club struggled for decades and finally -- at the end of the Comiskey era -- emerged as a team that was great, fun to watch, and could maybe have become a dynasty if not decimated by Bill Veeck. That's what Comiskey means to me, that and so much of my youth that was focused on what was going on in front of those arches. It means other things to other people, lots of them because it was there a long time and a lot went on there.

To the city and the south side especially, Comiskey is/was an institution, not a person. Should Jerry Reinsdorf have the arrogance and the power to take that away? He bulldozed the old park only because it had no room for luxury boxes, and got away with it by transferring the traditions to the new park. Now he sells that tradition for $68MM in his personal pocket. And we think its great? Come on.

Another thing: Comiskey Park was the site of many Negro League all-star and/or championship games. That tradition had nothing to do with Charles Comiskey but the significance of Comiskey Park to the Negro Leagues could have been celebrated much more in honoring the old Comiskey (Park, not Charles). That I think was a tragic missed opportunity maybe on a level with leaving WGN. I remember a lot of African Americans at Comiskey in the '50s, but not any more.

One more, maybe a stretch: There is a danger that "The Cell" will encourage a sort of Oakland Raiders image for the Sox, which will attract more of the kind of fans who put the franchise in danger in the '70s and that will turn away the "family" crowd.

Hangar18
02-15-2003, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by wassagstdu


One more, maybe a stretch: There is a danger that "The Cell" will encourage a sort of Oakland Raiders image for the Sox, which will attract more of the kind of fans who put the franchise in danger in the '70s and that will turn away the "family" crowd.

Thats funny Wassagstdu brings this up. I was at Comi..USCellular Field a few weeks ago to look at two different seats I was going to purchase for my season ticket plan (I took the ones right behind the Sox Bullpen 157) But while I was in there, the whole place was Black and Silver inside. that with the lighting structures being painted Black, made me think the place looked a lot more menacing now. If Darth Vader had a baseball team, they would play inside this place. Not sure if I liked it, but It sure beats looking at stale, sterile Concrete, and Industrial Bricks on the concourse. Horrible. I think were going to end up being a bit more menacing as fans now heh heh.

HITMEN OF 77
02-15-2003, 12:56 PM
Well, all I know is, without Comiskey, there would have never been baseball on the southside of Chicago.

Dan H
02-16-2003, 08:35 AM
The Comiskey name, good, bad or indifferent, still represents history and baseball in Chicago. The new name means nothing to me and never will. I hated when Candlestick became 3Com and Riverfront became Cinergy Field. And far as what a distant relative thinks? It merely shows there are people behind the name. I care more about what she thinks than Jerry Reinsdorf. After all, she is a fan, and Reinsdorf is a multi-millionare who has no idea of being a regular fan is all about. And to those who think that complaining about the name is just an excuse for not coming out to the park? How about the Sox going to the World Series once in a while? You know, like more than once every 84 years.

Cheryl
02-16-2003, 12:47 PM
I still don't get complaining about the name change. I didn't like they named the new ballpark after the Comiskeys. Not that I think he was quite the ogre he's been made out to be, just that what I knew as Comiskey Park was gone. The new park should have had a new name. Now it does. Big deal. If the Comiskey family has a problem with that, they can buy the team back and put whatever name they want on the ballpark.

wassagstdu
02-16-2003, 02:46 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2912303923&category=20947
No comment.

FanOf14
02-16-2003, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by wassagstdu
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2912303923&category=20947
No comment.

LMAO!!! The funny part is that (unless he broke a deal with ebay) he has to pay to have that ad up there and the amount is based on the original auction amount. At least that is the way it is with ebay motors (my bf sold his 69 cougar using ebay...it ended up no one bid on it, but some dude that saw it bought it from him at about $100 about the amount he had it up on ebay for...).

Dan H
02-17-2003, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
I still don't get complaining about the name change. I didn't like they named the new ballpark after the Comiskeys. Not that I think he was quite the ogre he's been made out to be, just that what I knew as Comiskey Park was gone. The new park should have had a new name. Now it does. Big deal. If the Comiskey family has a problem with that, they can buy the team back and put whatever name they want on the ballpark.


Fine, let's give it a new name. How about Illinois Taxpayers Stadium since they were the ones who paid for it in the first place?

Cheryl
02-17-2003, 03:01 PM
Fine with me. As long as they outbid US Cellular for it.

BTW, it's a good story Dan. Very well written. I just don't care what the Comiskey family thinks about it.

Dadawg_77
02-17-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by wassagstdu
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2912303923&category=20947
No comment.


What was it? Ebay took it down.

FanOf14
02-17-2003, 04:16 PM
A Chicago guy put naming rights to himself for 1,000,000. It was pretty funny.

doctor30th
02-17-2003, 04:41 PM
See I don't remember this lady ever offer any way to help the white sox make improvements to the park to increase attendance before.

It just seems like she's the type of person who after the fact starts caring. They have been talking about naming rights for comiskey for at least 2 years now. Why did she not say anything before?

Dan H
02-18-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
Fine with me. As long as they outbid US Cellular for it.

BTW, it's a good story Dan. Very well written. I just don't care what the Comiskey family thinks about it.

Thanks for the compliment. As I said in an earlier post, there is a person behind a name. US Cellular Park or Stadium or whatever just has a cold ring to it.