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View Full Version : Finally, DIPS are out


Vsahajpal
02-10-2003, 11:58 PM
...with or without Voros!

http://www.futilityinfielder.com/dips02.html

EnricoPallazzo
02-11-2003, 01:36 AM
Thanks for the information. From Poetry to Statistics, from Miami to Seattle, from Boston to San Diego, even the stupidity and greed of the people in charge of the well being of baseball cannot diminish its magnificence or its magic.

MarkEdward
02-11-2003, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
...with or without Voros!

http://www.futilityinfielder.com/dips02.html

Even though Mark Buehrle has a high dERA, it looks like he'll be the exception to the DIPS rule. Even though he doesn't strike out many, he does keep the ball in the park, and DIPS has yet to account for that type of pitcher.

Also according to DIPS, Todd Ritchie had a better year than Jon Garland and Danny Wright. Hm...

By the way, has Voros fell off the planet?

gogosoxgogo
02-11-2003, 05:02 PM
Yeah, I don't like this stat. It's nice to have as a reference I suppose, but it's not too useful IMO. Pitchers who like to put the ball in play rather than go for the K are screwed.

kermittheefrog
02-11-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Yeah, I don't like this stat. It's nice to have as a reference I suppose, but it's not too useful IMO. Pitchers who like to put the ball in play rather than go for the K are screwed.

Well the idea is pitchers can't control how the ball is put into play. Voros covers this pretty well in everything he's written about DIPS. You should really read further before making a judgement. I think DIPS is pretty useful but not exactly a great mearure of performance.

gogosoxgogo
02-11-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Well the idea is pitchers can't control how the ball is put into play. Voros covers this pretty well in everything he's written about DIPS. You should really read further before making a judgement. I think DIPS is pretty useful but not exactly a great mearure of performance.

I did read that. I don't think it's very reflective of pitchers who DO put the ball in play. Are you going to tell me that Buehrle is a bad pitcher because he puts the ball in play? Unless this measured something along the lines of balls put into play which are out of reach of a normal fielder, then this is useless. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good little invention which I wouldn't have thought of. It's unique and I definately see the point to it, unfortunately, there's not a whole lot you can do to show it accurately. It's kind of like communism - good theory, but no good way to apply it.

kermittheefrog
02-12-2003, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
I did read that. I don't think it's very reflective of pitchers who DO put the ball in play. Are you going to tell me that Buehrle is a bad pitcher because he puts the ball in play? Unless this measured something along the lines of balls put into play which are out of reach of a normal fielder, then this is useless. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good little invention which I wouldn't have thought of. It's unique and I definately see the point to it, unfortunately, there's not a whole lot you can do to show it accurately. It's kind of like communism - good theory, but no good way to apply it.

There are a ton of ways for DIPS to be applied. If you're evaluating talent all information is useful. I'd say DIPS is extremely useful. You take a look and find out what pitchers are benefitting from good defense the most. If you're a club looking at acquiring a pitcher via trade or free agency information like this is very useful.