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hose
02-06-2003, 07:47 PM
I heard on a sports update by ESPN 1000's Dave Jewday that Jose Valentin is staying put and the "internet" trade rumors involving him are ludicrous according to White Sox sources.

Is that like a vote of confidence?............Hose start packing your bags :whiner:

TimChamp
02-06-2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by hose
I heard on a sports update by ESPN 1000's Dave Jewday that Jose Valentin is staying put and the "internet" trade rumors involving him are ludicrous according to White Sox sources.

Is that like a vote of confidence?............Hose start packing your bags :whiner:

In a way, I find that to be good news to me (because of the intangibles that Jose gives us), but in another way, I'm beginning to wonder whether Jose is really worth $5.5 million (I think) unless he has a season like he did in 2000, where he hit around .270, had 25 HRs, and 95 RBIs. And people have made a good point that he is starting to become more injury prone and his numbers have gone down because of those injuries (or Manuel's constant tinkering)...I think I would take Jimmy Rollins (young and promising), but not with Rauch in the deal, maybe, I would even give up Wright :o:

Champ out...

RKMeibalane
02-06-2003, 08:27 PM
Ken Williams has done a lot to improve the public's perception of him this off-season. I would hate to see him lose the respect he's earned by doing something stupid. Rollins is a good player, but Valentin will provide more of what the Sox need this season. His bat is an important part of their lineup. What's more, he contributes greatly to the chemistry in the clubhouse. I think trading him would be a mistake at this point.

I'm hoping that Jose is staying. If not, I just hope KW doesn't ruin everything.

Jjav829
02-06-2003, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by TimChamp
In a way, I find that to be good news to me (because of the intangibles that Jose gives us), but in another way, I'm beginning to wonder whether Jose is really worth $5.5 million (I think) unless he has a season like he did in 2000, where he hit around .270, had 25 HRs, and 95 RBIs. And people have made a good point that he is starting to become more injury prone and his numbers have gone down because of those injuries (or Manuel's constant tinkering)...I think I would take Jimmy Rollins (young and promising), but not with Rauch in the deal, maybe, I would even give up Wright :o:

Champ out...

His numbers really haven't "gone down". 2000 was a career year for Valentin. Other than that hes been right at his seasonal averages. He is a career .248 hitter. He hit .249 last year. He averages 23 HR's a year. He hit 25 last year. He averages 80 RBI's a year and had 75 last year. He averages a .774 OPS a year and had a .790 OPS last year. His OBP was down last year from his career average and his slugging was up. Hes always been injury prone. He has played in over 140 games in a year only 3 times in his career. Basically what we saw last year is what we can expect, possibly a little less since hes getting older.

soxtalker
02-06-2003, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by hose
I heard on a sports update by ESPN 1000's Dave Jewday that Jose Valentin is staying put and the "internet" trade rumors involving him are ludicrous according to White Sox sources.


Does this mean that they aren't going to deal Valentine at all? Or does it just mean that this particular deal is dead? Is there any way to determine how close they were to a deal?

TimChamp
02-06-2003, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
His numbers really haven't "gone down". 2000 was a career year for Valentin. Other than that hes been right at his seasonal averages. He is a career .248 hitter. He hit .249 last year. He averages 23 HR's a year. He hit 25 last year. He averages 80 RBI's a year and had 75 last year. He averages a .774 OPS a year and had a .790 OPS last year. His OBP was down last year from his career average and his slugging was up. Hes always been injury prone. He has played in over 140 games in a year only 3 times in his career. Basically what we saw last year is what we can expect, possibly a little less since hes getting older.


That's true, I guess he just had a "career year" in 2000...

Champ out...

SoxRulecubsdrool
02-06-2003, 09:48 PM
I really don't believe we could replace that much mustache! Especially with Biddle gone, it would be an incredible lose in facial hair alone. Koch would have to grow a full Amish beard to make up for that per square inch.



:manos
My mustache will always be with you!

TimChamp
02-06-2003, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by SoxRulecubsdrool
I really don't believe we could replace that much mustache! Especially with Biddle gone, it would be an incredible lose in facial hair alone. Koch would have to grow a full Amish beard to make up for that per square inch.



:manos
My mustache will always be with you!

LOL!!! What is it with the obsession with facial hair on this site? We haven't won anything with facial hair, so maybe if we lose it we will actually win! Hwy, it works for the Yank-MEes right? :D:

Champ out...

TheBigHurt
02-06-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by TimChamp

Champ out... .

hey lol i like how you say CHAMP OUT after every thing you say

CHAMP OUT ya all

SoxRulecubsdrool
02-06-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by TimChamp
LOL!!! What is it with the obsession with facial hair on this site? We haven't won anything with facial hair, so maybe if we lose it we will actually win! Hwy, it works for the Yank-MEes right? :D:

Champ out...

Okay! I have had a few drinks. Let's all shave our heads! You girls have to be in this too. When we go to the games we will look like some space alien cult but maybe it will catch on.
Nevermind!
The mustache will live on.
I don't want to see Jose go. Especially after his Sammy Soso tributes with the "blowing little kisses from the heart".

:gulp:
:gulp:

hose
02-06-2003, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Does this mean that they aren't going to deal Valentine at all? Or does it just mean that this particular deal is dead? Is there any way to determine how close they were to a deal?



As of right now the deal was all just a rumor.

hose
02-06-2003, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by TimChamp
In a way, I find that to be good news to me (because of the intangibles that Jose gives us), but in another way, I'm beginning to wonder whether Jose is really worth $5.5 million (I think) unless he has a season like he did in 2000, where he hit around .270, had 25 HRs, and 95 RBIs. And people have made a good point that he is starting to become more injury prone and his numbers have gone down because of those injuries (or Manuel's constant tinkering)...I think I would take Jimmy Rollins (young and promising), but not with Rauch in the deal, maybe, I would even give up Wright :o:

Champ out...


Jose worth 5.5 million? This will be the last year Valentin sees that type of money.

I really don't know much about Rollins because I don't follow the National League as close as the American, but from what I've read about him from the WSI board he sounds pretty good.

Young , All-Star , base stealer, good glove, led NL in triples...what's not to like?

gogosoxgogo
02-07-2003, 08:32 AM
Good, the trade will not be happening. To be honest, I'm not sure if I'd do Valentin for Rollins straight up. I'd have to think about that. Jose is such a great guy to have in your clubhouse and the most clutch guy I've ever seen. If you need a big hit, Jose is your man. He's going to be an important factor in this 2003 team.

BTW, I also read the other day how Manos drove in the game winning hit in the Puerto Rico playoffs. Mike Porzio also had a good performance in relief I believe.

Bobby Thigpen
02-07-2003, 09:57 AM
I'm very glad this trade didn't happen. Jose may be declining, he may never have another year like 2000, but his value in leadership is immense. We can't underestimate the role of chemistry in a search for the World Series. Look what Clayton, Frank, and others have done with bad teamwork the last two years. With some of the "individuals" gone at the end of last year we flourished. Unless you put out an all-star team like the Yankees you're going to need chemistry to win a championship, and Jose brings that in buttloads. Plus his Sammy kisses immediately places him in my personal Sox Hall of Fame.

baggio202
02-07-2003, 10:13 AM
why does everyone assume this will be jose's last year with us???...no one next year will offer him anywhere near what he makes now... if we win the division and he is a key part of that shouldnt we bring him back???...i know jose is getting up there but he plays baseball year round and the guy is probably one of the more fitness conscience players in the game...ill bet he can play SS for atleast 3-4 more years..barring injury...

if we could sign him back at between 1-2 million wouldnt he be welcomed back???

Bobby Thigpen
02-07-2003, 10:27 AM
I think the reasoning for everyone wanting to get rid of Jose is that next year we'll move Jimenez to short and bring up one of the young second base prospects. Me, I wouldn't mind moving Jose to second this year, putting Jimenez at short and seeing what happens. I too think Jose could be had for cheap next year, but youth may push him out.

harwar
02-07-2003, 11:22 AM
I don't know where this rumor started but i never gave it any credence.Jose being currently one of my favorites aside,i am worried about him staying healthy this year.

TRL
02-07-2003, 01:18 PM
I'd like to see Jose come back next year for something in the 1 to 2 mil range. He's a spark plug, brings a lot of energy. Realistically this is probably his last year on this team, so enjoy the 'stach and the hustle.

TimChamp
02-07-2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Mike Porzio also had a good performance in relief I believe.

I believe he started that game and lasted 5 2/3 innings while giving up one earned run...the fact that they've been saying that Porzio has been doing pretty good down there really worries me...this guy just seems to do well in the minors and places like that, but I don't like him on the major league level...too many walks and he's not confident with his pitches...

Champ out..

maurice
02-07-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
To be honest, I'm not sure if I'd do Valentin for Rollins straight up. I'd have to think about that.

Look, I like Manos as much as the next guy, but there's not a GM in baseball who would refuse to trade Valentin for Rollins, for the reasons I listed in the other thread. Heck, that kind of deal would probably get the Phily's GM fired.

idseer
02-07-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
Jose may be declining, he may never have another year like 2000, but his value in leadership is immense. We can't underestimate the role of chemistry in a search for the World Series.

no, but apparently we can OVER estimate it. :D:

WinningUgly!
02-07-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
I think the reasoning for everyone wanting to get rid of Jose is that next year we'll move Jimenez to short and bring up one of the young second base prospects. Me, I wouldn't mind moving Jose to second this year, putting Jimenez at short and seeing what happens. I too think Jose could be had for cheap next year, but youth may push him out. Valentin signed a 3 year deal following the 2000 season for $15 Million, with a club option for a fourth year('04) worth an additional $5 million. I could see Jose coming back next year, if Jimenez, Harris, Hummell, etc. do not make significant strides this year.

soxruleEP
02-07-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Look, I like Manos as much as the next guy, but there's not a GM in baseball who would refuse to trade Valentin for Rollins, for the reasons I listed in the other thread. Heck, that kind of deal would probably get the Phily's GM fired.

A straight-up trade like that would defintiely be in the SOx's favor, and I am a big Jose fan.

However, a contending team should not trade a starting position player/team leader and what appears to be its most majors-ready minor league pitcher for a young position player.

Maurice is correct in that Philly's GM would not make the straight-up trade, but would if he could also get Rauch.

We should not be trading now but trying to get the best drifitng free agents on the cheap--they cost nothing but money.

ohalloran
02-08-2003, 11:03 AM
Don't underestimate facial hair! It's one of those intangibles you hear so much about. Remember the 72-74 A's? They won with great pitching & facial hair.

voodoochile
02-08-2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by ohalloran
Don't underestimate facial hair! It's one of those intangibles you hear so much about. Remember the 72-74 A's? They won with great pitching & facial hair.

At Soxfest, the one thing that the ladies definitely agreed on was that Jose is a handsome man and his 'stache and 'do were definitely part of the reason why...

RedPinStripes
02-08-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
At Soxfest, the one thing that the ladies definitely agreed on was that Jose is a handsome man and his 'stache and 'do were definitely part of the reason why...

:manos
"I have the perfect porn star mustache"!

RKMeibalane
02-08-2003, 01:16 PM
I'm glad Valentin is staying, but I do think he'll have to accept a smaller role eventually. If Hummel or Harris becomes the starter at second base in 2004, Jimenez would most likely be moved to short, which would make Jose expendable. If, by chance, the Sox underachieve again (Heaven forbid), I wouldn't be surprised if they try to trade Valentin.

RedPinStripes
02-08-2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I'm glad Valentin is staying, but I do think he'll have to accept a smaller role eventually. If Hummel or Harris becomes the starter at second base in 2004, Jimenez would most likely be moved to short, which would make Jose expendable. If, by chance, the Sox underachieve again (Heaven forbid), I wouldn't be surprised if they try to trade Valentin.

I doubt Hummel will ever be here with his inconsistancy

Maybe Andy Gonzalez............In about 3 years.