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Randar68
08-13-2001, 08:08 PM
This guy is so absolutely rediculous!!!

If anyone heard him on Dan Patrick's radio show today, he was about ready to mess his pants!!!

His second favorite team the A's, were the topic of his love-fest today. Here is his analysis of the Cy Young award race:

1) Tim Hudson
2) Mark Mulder
3) Roger Clemons

The only time he mentioned Buehrle's name at all was when he was comparing him to some 24 year-old minor-leaguer in the A's system.

He is so blatant in his 1) love of Boston, 2) Hatred of NY, and 3) denial of the existence of anything between the Appalacians and Rockies....

He rattled off a whole bunch of categories in which Hudson was in the top 5, several of which Buehrle leads, and never even mentioned him. I know he is a long shot, since he plays for a .500 team and doesn't have the wins, but he has been hands-down the most dominant pitcher in the AL this year, if not all of baseball.

In WHIP, Opp Avg, and ERA, he is the AL's best. He gets .37 fewer runs per game than Hudson, and .75 fewer runs per game than Mulder.

If you take out Buehrle's first four starts, he has been one of the top 5 pitchers in MLB with an ERA approaching 2.0 in his other 18 starts.

None of this, of course, deserved ieven a mention or a side note in Gammon's mind....


I know he won't win it, but he should certainly be discussed in the same breath as the other 3 above when taking consideration. If he rattles off 5 more wins, he should definitely be in the top 2-3 in the running.....

Daver
08-13-2001, 08:31 PM
But that won't happen unless the Sox are in the playoff race,regardless of how well Mark pitches the rest of the way.

Iguana775
08-13-2001, 08:36 PM
you're right daver. i think next year if he continues to perform like this and we have all of our hitters back, he will get more than his share of consideration.


BURLY FOR PRES!!!!!!!

duke of dorwood
08-13-2001, 11:12 PM
I heard that disgusting display too.

Soxboyrob
08-14-2001, 11:07 AM
There is nothing disgusting about it....Buehrle is on track for about 14-16 wins. When in history has a guy w/ 14-16 wins won a Cy Young? If Mark goes out and wins his next 5, and still has another 4 starts left, then maybe he's a longshot to get in there. At this point, Mark's not even a consideration. I don't particularly give a rat's patootie about Gammons or his analysis, but he's absolutely correct on this point. Not only that, but he's repeatedly raved about Buehrle during prior discussions and in his column. He went so far as to say(in his column) that...paraphrasing...."Buehrle will probably be one of the game's top lefty aces during this decade."

Stop being so paranoid, Sox fans. Who cares what Gammons thinks of our pitchers.

Randar68
08-14-2001, 11:11 AM
Stop being so paranoid, Sox fans. Who cares what Gammons thinks of our pitchers.

Did you hear his biased rant????

no, it wasn't the fact of saying Hudson was a Cy Young leader, it was the way and the support he used for it.

He was championing his own cause and his hatred of anything NY....

Iwritecode
08-14-2001, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
There is nothing disgusting about it....Buehrle is on track for about 14-16 wins. When in history has a guy w/ 14-16 wins won a Cy Young?

Well, if it weren't for a certain closer who shall remain unamed, *cough* keith *cough* *cough* Dan Wright would have 3 wins right now. You can't always go by wins for a Cy Young candidate...

Randar68
08-14-2001, 11:15 AM
. When in history has a guy w/ 14-16 wins won a Cy Young?

1987 Steve Bedrosian 5-3
1989 Mark Davis 4-3
1981 Rollie Fingers 6-3
1984 Willie Hernandez 9-3

1981 Fernando Valenzuela 13-7
1984 Rick Sutcliffe 16-1

1994 Greg Maddux 16-6
1994 David Cone 16-5

Others w/ only 17 wins:
1997 Pedro Martinez 17-8
1999 Randy Johnson 17-9

20 wins is not the only requisite for the Cy Young....

Soxboyrob
08-14-2001, 11:20 AM
I think you understand my point, though....16 wins will generally not get you there, unless there are other circumstances ie...

1. Unhittable reliever
2. 16-1 or 16-3 record
3. winning 16 games and singlehandedly carrying your team to the playoffs.

It's not reasonable for any of us to be thinking of Buehrle as a potential Cy Young candidate when the best he looks to be able to do this season will be 16-6 on a slightly above .500 team.

Soxboyrob
08-14-2001, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


Did you hear his biased rant????

no, it wasn't the fact of saying Hudson was a Cy Young leader, it was the way and the support he used for it.

He was championing his own cause and his hatred of anything NY....

No I didn't hear it and didn't really need to.
Think about it...He was making a case for who ought to be the Cy Young. Since Buehrle is not a candidate, the fact that he's near the top of several statistical categories is a nonfactor. Why mention something that hasn't any bearing on the point you're making?

Randar68
08-14-2001, 11:24 AM
It's not reasonable for any of us to be thinking of Buehrle as a potential Cy Young candidate when the best he looks to be able to do this season will be 16-6 on a slightly above .500 team.

Well, he shouldn't and won't win it, but looking at RS and the rotations surrounding those other guys, He should be considered and mentioned in the same breath as these other pitchers. The only category where Buehrle significantly trails any of these guys is Wins, and he is ahead of them in most every other category indicating dominance of hitters....

I'm not saying he is going to or should win, but he HAS been one of the best 2-3 pitchers in the AL all season.....

Soxboyrob
08-14-2001, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
....He should be considered and mentioned in the same breath as these other pitchers. The only category where Buehrle significantly trails any of these guys is Wins, and he is ahead of them in most every other category indicating dominance of hitters....

I'm not saying he is going to or should win, but he HAS been one of the best 2-3 pitchers in the AL all season.....

In summation, you're absolutely correct. I'm only speaking from the historical Cy Young voting standpoint. I'm with you in that he ought to be considered and it would be nice if they looked beyond the "W" column. He's easily one of the top three most dominant and reliable pitchers in the AL right now.

Randar68
08-14-2001, 11:30 AM
Agreed, that was all I was saying....

Fisk Fan
08-14-2001, 11:58 AM
I understand both sides of this coin. While Buerhle deserves to be mentioned when discussing the category leaders, Gammons would not mention him while he was trying to campaign for someone else.

While Buerhle may not be in the running for the Cy Young, he has the numbers to at least be mentioned. He deserves props which he is not getting. Keep in mind that if the Sox were even close to this pennant race, we would be getting more pub than right now.

Think about who is getting the job done right now....Buerhle, Danny Wright, Garland, Glover, Lowe, the list goes on and on. The issue is that the bats are not getting the job done, period.

People put so much stock into what Gammons says, it's ridiculous. It's like, if Gammons even mentions your name, your stock splits twice immediately.

MarqSox
08-14-2001, 05:46 PM
A pitcher's won-loss column is arguably the most overrated statistic in baseball. You'll rarely hear a "baseball expert" come out and say that -- it's more vogue to rip on on-base percentages or slugging percentages (the famed OBPS came from this angst). But think about it. A pitcher can finish a season with a 20-5 record and have a 5.45 ERA, or he can be 10-15 with a 3.45 ERA. Who's the better pitcher? It's hard to say. Just because one guy has twice as many wins, he will be considered better, despite giving up more runs. W/L does is predicated mainly on run support and defense, which pitchers (particularly in the AL with the DH) have no control over. I mean, what the hell? A guy can throw a no-hitter and lose because his defense sucks. Ask Andy Hawkins. Won-loss records should just really not be given much notice in general when considering who's a good pitcher.