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ma-gaga
02-02-2003, 10:08 AM
"We have 25 players in the club who get along and we play as a team," first baseman Doug Mientkiewicz said. "The White Sox have proved that they don't have what we have."

full link (http://www.startribune.com/stories/507/3628305.html)

PaleHoseGeorge
02-02-2003, 10:20 AM
LOL! Good one!!!!

I'm not surprised to know the whiney punks from Minne-SO-tah would feel this way, nor am I surprised one of them would finally speak their mind for publication in the local press. The Vi-Queens season is over and the local scribes need to fill column inches. :smile:

However, I'm very surprised to read it was Meinkzlkkowixcz flapping his gums and not the universally-recognized turd, Pieriznjijikieki. I thought the Twinkie firstbasemen had some class. My mistake. :D:

Just to state the obvious, the Sox (and Sox Fans) really do want what the whiney Twinkies have. I can't fault Meinkzlkkowixcz for stating a fact. As division champs, it's his team's right to talk smack. However, it probably isn't too smart to give the other team bulletin board material, especially when your logic is hanging on nothing more than "team chemistry." Unlike something tangible like superior talent, team chemistry is the sort of factor that usually evens out over the long haul. You can't expect balls to hit discarded bats in the basepaths forever.

:ray
"I'm still the superior idiot. I was flapping my gums even AFTER my team had been thoroughly beaten."

voodoochile
02-02-2003, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
"We have 25 players in the club who get along and we play as a team," first baseman Doug Mientkiewicz said. "The White Sox have proved that they don't have what we have."

full link (http://www.startribune.com/stories/507/3628305.html)

YES!!!

Man this is going to be one fun season of baseball. I think these two teams are going to have a brawl. Hopefully it doesn't go as far as the Tigers brawl went in 2000, but I see some bench clearing coming...

RKMeibalane
02-02-2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
YES!!!

Man this is going to be one fun season of baseball. I think these two teams are going to have a brawl. Hopefully it doesn't go as far as the Tigers brawl went in 2000, but I see some bench clearing coming...

I could see something happening, too. I thought that the Twins were smart to keep their mouths shut. I was wrong. They have now given the Sox a reason to dislike them, if such a reason didn't already exist. I'm looking forward to their first meeting.

Bmr31
02-02-2003, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
LOL! Good one!!!!

I'm not surprised to know the whiney punks from Minne-SO-tah would feel this way, nor am I surprised one of them would finally speak their mind for publication in the local press. The Vi-Queens season is over and the local scribes need to fill column inches. :smile:

However, I'm very surprised to read it was Meinkzlkkowixcz flapping his gums and not the universally-recognized turd, Pieriznjijikieki. I thought the Twinkie firstbasemen had some class. My mistake. :D:

Just to state the obvious, the Sox (and Sox Fans) really do want what the whiney Twinkies have. I can't fault Meinkzlkkowixcz for stating a fact. As division champs, it's his team's right to talk smack. However, it probably isn't too smart to give the other team bulletin board material, especially when your logic is hanging on nothing more than "team chemistry." Unlike something tangible like superior talent, team chemistry is the sort of factor that usually evens out over the long haul. You can't expect balls to hit discarded bats in the basepaths forever.

:ray
"I'm still the superior idiot. I was flapping my gums even AFTER my team had been thoroughly beaten."

Hmm as far as im concerned, team chemistry is more important than talent.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-02-2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Hmm as far as im concerned, team chemistry is more important than talent.

Team chemistry more important than talent? Yes. I just don't think this is a reliable place to base your championship aspiration upon. That's what Meinkiexckowixcz was saying.

For example, Cal Eldred was an undisputed leader both on the field and in the clubhouse for the 2000 Sox team that won 95 games. However, with a pin in his elbow and a seat on the bench, there wasn't much he could do to prevent the 2001 Sox pitching staff from imploding.

Personally, I think the Twinkies would do better hanging their hopes on more than simple team chemistry. It's hard to catch lightning in a bottle multiple times.

Bmr31
02-02-2003, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Team chemistry more important than talent? Yes. I just don't think this is a reliable place to base your championship aspiration upon. That's what Meinkiexckowixcz was saying.

For example, Cal Eldred was an undisputed leader both on the field and in the clubhouse for the 2000 Sox team that won 95 games. However, with a pin in his elbow and a seat on the bench, there wasn't much he could do to prevent the 2001 Sox pitching staff from imploding.

Personally, I think the Twinkies would do better hanging their hopes on more than simple team chemistry. It's hard to catch lightning in a bottle multiple times.

It seemed to me that he was bashing the sox, more than anything. I think his point was, with selfish players like Frank, its going to be hard to beat them. Just my take.

voodoochile
02-02-2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
It seemed to me that he was bashing the sox, more than anything. I think his point was, with selfish players like Frank, its going to be hard to beat them. Just my take.

That presupposes that Frank is indeed selfish and not merely frustrated and feeling abused and unappreciated (something that happens to everyone from time to time).

SouthSideHitman
02-02-2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
LOL! Good one!!!!

I'm not surprised to know the whiney punks from Minne-SO-tah would feel this way, nor am I surprised one of them would finally speak their mind for publication in the local press. The Vi-Queens season is over and the local scribes need to fill column inches. :smile:

However, I'm very surprised to read it was Meinkzlkkowixcz flapping his gums and not the universally-recognized turd, Pieriznjijikieki. I thought the Twinkie firstbasemen had some class. My mistake. :D:

Hey, hey, hey, let's lay off the Polish names for a while huh? I mean half the Sox fans I know don't know whether its Valentin or Valenteen or Manuel or Manwell.

But anyway, I like this. It gives the Twinkies some bad juju, (knock on wood) and should help Sox/Twins develope into a heated rivalry. First order of business, make Dougie feel the wrath of Colon on April 25.

Bmr31
02-02-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
That presupposes that Frank is indeed selfish and not merely frustrated and feeling abused and unappreciated (something that happens to everyone from time to time).

LOL!!! Abused? Poor guy, it must be hell to get paid millions of dollars per year to play a sport. Unappreciated? All anyone expects out of this guy is to put the team first. This is something he has never accomplished.

voodoochile
02-02-2003, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
LOL!!! Abused? Poor guy, it must be hell to get paid millions of dollars per year to play a sport. Unappreciated? All anyone expects out of this guy is to put the team first. This is something he has never accomplished.

Really? Where do you get your info? Can you point to a time when Frank refused to play? Can you point to a time when he told the team to trade him? Can you point to a specific example of what you are refering to?

I don't mean abused in the classic sense, but if one steps back from the obvious (he makes millions of dollars to play a children's game) it isn't hard to see why the last few years might have been tough on Frank emotionally.

You know anyone personally who has gone through every thing he has in the last 4 years and never struggled at all?

Here's the list:

1)Divorce
2)Death of a parent
3)Struggles at work that were related to several bebilitating illnesses
4)Major illness that prevented him from doing his job for an entire year
5)Having his name dragged through the mud by a bunch of media hacks
6)Other workmates questioning his ability/desire when he was either ill or still recovering from illness
7)Going from one of the biggest most sought after people in his profession to almost becoming a person paid less than minimum wage in that same profession (situation dragged on for 2 years)

Just curious how well you think most people would hold up emotionally under those circumstances. Okay, now tell me how they would handle it if they constantly had the press asking them why they were no longer a top performer in their profession and then writing articles that rip you know matter what you say or do.

Are you going to take over the job of designated Frank-Hater now? Can we at least wait until the season unfolds and see how he performs?

Bmr31
02-02-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Really? Where do you get your info? Can you point to a time when Frank refused to play? Can you point to a time when he told the team to trade him? Can you point to a specific example of what you are refering to?

I don't mean abused in the classic sense, but if one steps back from the obvious (he makes millions of dollars to play a children's game) it isn't hard to see why the last few years might have been tough on Frank emotionally.

You know anyone personally who has gone through every thing he has in the last 4 years and never struggled at all?

Here's the list:

1)Divorce
2)Death of a parent
3)Struggles at work that were related to several bebilitating illnesses
4)Major illness that prevented him from doing his job for an entire year
5)Having his name dragged through the mud by a bunch of media hacks
6)Other workmates questioning his ability/desire when he was either ill or still recovering from illness
7)Going from one of the biggest most sought after people in his profession to almost becoming a person paid less than minimum wage in that same profession (situation dragged on for 2 years)

Just curious how well you think most people would hold up emotionally under those circumstances. Okay, now tell me how they would handle it if they constantly had the press asking them why they were no longer a top performer in their profession and then writing articles that rip you know matter what you say or do.

Are you going to take over the job of designated Frank-Hater now? Can we at least wait until the season unfolds and see how he performs?

Take over the job? I have never been a fan of Franks. When he is not putting up his normal numbers, it is even easier to dislike him. I am not going to rip him every day, cuz he is a sox player, but i dont think much of him. To support my "opinion" of his selfishness, all i need to say is there have been enough negative quotes from his manager and fellow players to support my opinion.

voodoochile
02-02-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Take over the job? I have never been a fan of Franks. When he is not putting up his normal numbers, it is even easier to dislike him. I am not going to rip him every day, cuz he is a sox player, but i dont think much of him. To support my "opinion" of his selfishness, all i need to say is there have been enough negative quotes from his manager and fellow players to support my opinion.

Really? Must have missed them. The only thing I recall were some incidents last summer when all this was coming to a head - shortly before he stopped talking to the press...

Bmr31
02-02-2003, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Really? Must have missed them. The only thing I recall were some incidents last summer when all this was coming to a head - shortly before he stopped talking to the press...

Most of those negative comments came from former teammates......the current ones realize they need to baby him or he will pout...

ScottyTheSoxFan
02-02-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
1)Divorce
2)Death of a parent
3)Struggles at work that were related to several bebilitating illnesses
4)Major illness that prevented him from doing his job for an entire year
5)Having his name dragged through the mud by a bunch of media hacks
6)Other workmates questioning his ability/desire when he was either ill or still recovering from illness
7)Going from one of the biggest most sought after people in his profession to almost becoming a person paid less than minimum wage in that same profession (situation dragged on for 2 years)

his agent was killed also along with Payne Stewart.

jeremyb1
02-02-2003, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Hmm as far as im concerned, team chemistry is more important than talent.

then they should put me and my friends on a major league club. we get along really well and i've always loved baseball.

as for dougie's remarks, i think its wonderful. i love that charged atmophere that stupid insulting comments like that can provide. things like this just make me even more pumped about the season. we really are developing a hated rivalry with the twins.

we've been accused of talking but as far as i can tell they've said just as much and perhaps more than we have. hunter loves to shoot his mouth off and even gardenhire has gotten in on the act which is something you'll never see manuel do.

i can honestly say i really dislike their club and want to beat them more than anything. i'm looking forward to dougie's struggle to hit his weight this season. at least he'll have his teammates to help him through.

voodoochile
02-02-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Most of those negative comments came from former teammates......the current ones realize they need to baby him or he will pout...

Really? I don't recall that either. You have a link to these quotes? I assume they all happened this off season as I can't recall a single incident of a former teammate cracking on Frank after they left.

As to your other statement:

:whoflungpoo
(I think you are making an assumption and have no real evidence for it.)

MetalliSox
02-02-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
LOL! Good one!!!!

I'm not surprised to know the whiney punks from Minne-SO-tah would feel this way, nor am I surprised one of them would finally speak their mind for publication in the local press. The Vi-Queens season is over and the local scribes need to fill column inches. :smile:

However, I'm very surprised to read it was Meinkzlkkowixcz flapping his gums and not the universally-recognized turd, Pieriznjijikieki. I thought the Twinkie firstbasemen had some class. My mistake. :D:

Just to state the obvious, the Sox (and Sox Fans) really do want what the whiney Twinkies have. I can't fault Meinkzlkkowixcz for stating a fact. As division champs, it's his team's right to talk smack. However, it probably isn't too smart to give the other team bulletin board material, especially when your logic is hanging on nothing more than "team chemistry." Unlike something tangible like superior talent, team chemistry is the sort of factor that usually evens out over the long haul. You can't expect balls to hit discarded bats in the basepaths forever.

:ray
"I'm still the superior idiot. I was flapping my gums even AFTER my team had been thoroughly beaten."


Mient-whatever, is a cocky pre-madonna. He was like that on the USA team. For a guy who, may play an excellent 1st base, but had one good year and since is batting slightly above his weight, he has no position. It's not the Twins are a dynasty. They won a weak division, a fact you know we would of had to deal with if the Sox won last year.
He has no pull to say anything about Frank. When Dougie does half what Frank has done, then maybe he can whisper his opinions.
I'd like to see a Colon slide under his frickin' chin, then run to the dugout to change his pants.

Bmr31
02-02-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Really? I don't recall that either. You have a link to these quotes? I assume they all happened this off season as I can't recall a single incident of a former teammate cracking on Frank after they left.

As to your other statement:

:whoflungpoo
(I think you are making an assumption and have no real evidence for it.)

LOL why in the hell would i have links to quotes of baseball players? Ya know, ive been waiting a long time to say this. Some of you people dont understand the difference between facts and opionions. Any time someone comes up with an opinion you dont like, you expect fact. This is a board for people to express their OPINIONS, and those opinions do NOT have to be proven with facts. When i want to give you facts, i will provide them, okay?

Kilroy
02-02-2003, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Hmm as far as im concerned, team chemistry is more important than talent.

Once again, it has to be asked:

How come only winning teams have great chemistry??

If that's not true, please talk about some of the losing teams over the years that have been remembered for their great chemistry.

VeeckAsInWreck
02-02-2003, 03:54 PM
The 1973 Oakland A's had horrible team chemistry but, their hate for owner Charlie O. Finley brought them together.


:reinsy
That won't happen here, my players love me! Just ask Kenny Williams or Rob Gallas!

:KW
Sir, as far as I know, Mark Buehrle wishes you owned the Cardinals!

:gallas
Anything you say boss!

jeremyb1
02-02-2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Once again, it has to be asked:

How come only winning teams have great chemistry??

If that's not true, please talk about some of the losing teams over the years that have been remembered for their great chemistry.

that's exactly it. you said it yourself. losing teams over the years that have been remembered for their great chemistry.

no one really cares or talks about a team's chemistry when they're losing. all winning teams are said to have good chemistry because its a good story and people like to think that its very important. if a team loses, no one cares about them so no one will talk about their chemistry.

additionally, how do we know the causality isn't reversed here. its just as likely that winning breeds good chemistry as it is vice versa.

Bmr31
02-02-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
that's exactly it. you said it yourself. losing teams over the years that have been remembered for their great chemistry.

no one really cares or talks about a team's chemistry when they're losing. all winning teams are said to have good chemistry because its a good story and people like to think that its very important. if a team loses, no one cares about them so no one will talk about their chemistry.

additionally, how do we know the causality isn't reversed here. its just as likely that winning breeds good chemistry as it is vice versa.

Chemisty isnt everything, but its vital. Anyone who has been part of a team of any kind, should know this.

jeremyb1
02-02-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Chemisty isnt everything, but its vital. Anyone who has been part of a team of any kind, should know this.

i don't disagree that its important, i just think that its overrated by some.

Bmr31
02-02-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i don't disagree that its important, i just think that its overrated by some.

Yes, the Brewers wont be winning many games this season no matter what chemistry they come up with... :D:

voodoochile
02-02-2003, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
LOL why in the hell would i have links to quotes of baseball players? Ya know, ive been waiting a long time to say this. Some of you people dont understand the difference between facts and opionions. Any time someone comes up with an opinion you dont like, you expect fact. This is a board for people to express their OPINIONS, and those opinions do NOT have to be proven with facts. When i want to give you facts, i will provide them, okay?

You didn't say it was your opinion. You merely said:

Most of those negative comments came from former teammates......the current ones realize they need to baby him or he will pout...

Which sounds like you are stating a fact or repeating something that you read or heard.

Bmr31
02-02-2003, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
You didn't say it was your opinion. You merely said:



Which sounds like you are stating a fact or repeating something that you read or heard.

Well thats true, and that was based on quotes i have read. Its still opinion, they could be lying or i could have misread something. The truth is, almost know opinion can be proven with fact, because most of the time you dont know if the fact is really fact. That leaves me with my opinion that i really dont feel like proving.....

bc2k
02-02-2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Really? I don't recall that either. You have a link to these quotes? I assume they all happened this off season as I can't recall a single incident of a former teammate cracking on Frank after they left.

I remember reading on this very website what Jack McDowell had to say about Thomas.

Bmr31
02-02-2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
I remember reading on this very website what Jack McDowell had to say about Thomas.

Among several......either voodoo doesnt read much, or he is in denial.

RKMeibalane
02-02-2003, 06:37 PM
I can already tell that this is going to be an interesting season.

duke of dorwood
02-02-2003, 06:54 PM
Twinks chemistry is out of a bunch of career years. Those retreads in their bullpen will not be as good, and I expect a meltdown from hot Head Hunter now that he has his money. And we dont have their patsy, Foulke. The gap has been closed-19 head to head-wish we had a different manager for those.

Lip Man 1
02-02-2003, 07:19 PM
I do remember reading comments from Ozzie Guillen, Roberto Hernandez and (shudder...) Jamie Navarro among others who had some negative things to say about Frank over the years.

I did the interview with Jack (you can re read it in the WSI archives) and I wouldn't categorize what he said as "negative."

I can see where it would be looked at negatively when the Sox asked Thomas if he would move full time to DH so they could go after Mark McGwire (who called McDowell three times asking about the Sox) and he said no, killing any possibility of getting Big Mac.

Lip

VeeckAsInWreck
02-02-2003, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I can see where it would be looked at negatively when the Sox asked Thomas if he would move full time to DH so they could go after Mark McGwire (who called McDowell three times asking about the Sox) and he said no, killing any possibility of getting Big Mac.

Lip

Wha wha what? :o:

We could have had Big Mac? I know that was in the past but dammit if that ain't a kick in the pants!

Bmr31
02-02-2003, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I do remember reading comments from Ozzie Guillen, Roberto Hernandez and (shudder...) Jamie Navarro among others who had some negative things to say about Frank over the years.

I did the interview with Jack (you can re read it in the WSI archives) and I wouldn't categorize what he said as "negative."

I can see where it would be looked at negatively when the Sox asked Thomas if he would move full time to DH so they could go after Mark McGwire (who called McDowell three times asking about the Sox) and he said no, killing any possibility of getting Big Mac.

Lip


:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

OEO Magglio
02-02-2003, 08:54 PM
Good I'm happy Mientkiewicz talked, let the twins do all the talking this year, and let the Sox do there talking on the field.

WhiteSox = Life
02-02-2003, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I can already tell that this is going to be an interesting season.

I agree. If not the potentially great action on the field, then the action that takes place on the boards during a heated argument.

SI1020
02-03-2003, 11:31 AM
Can't we all just get along? :D:

T Dog
02-03-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Once again, it has to be asked:

How come only winning teams have great chemistry??

If that's not true, please talk about some of the losing teams over the years that have been remembered for their great chemistry.

The 1970 White Sox had great chemistry. Bill Melton, Carlos May and Ed Herrmann and company genuinely liked each other. When Syd O'Brien was charged $17.50 by ownership for smashing a batting helmet in frustration, his teammates took up a collection, and even got treasurer Leo Breen to donate to the "Obee Fund."

The team also lost 106 games.

soxruleEP
02-04-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile

1)Divorce
2)Death of a parent
3)Struggles at work that were related to several bebilitating illnesses
4)Major illness that prevented him from doing his job for an entire year
5)Having his name dragged through the mud by a bunch of media hacks
6)Other workmates questioning his ability/desire when he was either ill or still recovering from illness
7)Going from one of the biggest most sought after people in his profession to almost becoming a person paid less than minimum wage in that same profession (situation dragged on for 2 years)



Glad to see this enumerated. As bad as Frank was last year, he still put up reasonable numbers. And when so many were calling for his move from the Sox, I kept asking who can we get to replace those "terrible" numbers.

Frank's selfishness is greatly overplayed. a .300 BA and 120 RBI will make up for a lot of personality problems.

gogosoxgogo
02-04-2003, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
YES!!!

Man this is going to be one fun season of baseball. I think these two teams are going to have a brawl. Hopefully it doesn't go as far as the Tigers brawl went in 2000, but I see some bench clearing coming...

I wouldn't mind this at all. Bring the team closer. We need Thomas to be a major component in this brawl as well to get him really connected to our team. Remember after the Tigers' brawl how well the Sox played when they were united. Although, boy would the media have a field day with us when that happened.

I like Mientkiewicz's comments because they will get our team together and prove that we are better. We now need Koch and Mientkiewicz to go one on one. The difference is that Koch has a 100mph fastball :D:

Lip Man 1
02-04-2003, 08:32 PM
Veeck As In Wreck:

Go to the main page and click on WSI Interviews, then click on the link for the Jack McDowell Q & A. Read through it and you'll find where Jack comments about McGwire.

Lip

A.T. Money
02-04-2003, 09:07 PM
I can't believe Big Mac wanted to come here. If I were Black Jack, I would have told Mac that Thomas said he'd play DH, and then let management work it out after the fact. LOL.

NewyorkSoxFan
02-04-2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
I can't believe Big Mac wanted to come here. If I were Black Jack, I would have told Mac that Thomas said he'd play DH, and then let management work it out after the fact. LOL.


Well remember that Jack wasn't a pro management guy when he was here either, so I wouldn't have been looking for him to do Sox management any favors at that time.

NYSF

A.T. Money
02-04-2003, 09:14 PM
But Black Jack always wanted to win. Winning was more than doing favors for management.

Can you imagine having Big Mac on our team? He would have broke the Maris record here.

I still can't believe the Sox screwed around with McDowell. He was such a stud.

TheBigHurt
02-04-2003, 09:18 PM
hey newyorksoxfan i saw your from long island and was wondering what town since i am also from long island

pissonthecubs
02-04-2003, 09:23 PM
i can't wait for this season to start. just a couple of weeks until pitchers and catchers report and it just won't come fast enough. the 20 some-odd games against the twinkies and sox should be 20 of the best games in all of baseball this year. and with a young team both up there and here this would be a great battle of teams for the next 5 or 6 years. it would be a good change of pace then the sox-tribe games for the last 5 years or so.


___________
"It takes hundreds of nuts to build a motorcycle and just one in a car to wreck it."