PDA

View Full Version : Sox sign Gil Heredia, Estaban Loaiza, Brian Daubach


moochpuppy
01-27-2003, 04:52 PM
Sox sign veterans to minor league deals (http://www.rotoworld.com/display1.asp?page=news&sport=MLB)

delben91
01-27-2003, 05:04 PM
Loaiza and Daubach are both mildly intriguing. Could Esteban be that "pitcher brought in to compete for the 5th spot that can go to the minors if he doesn't win it" so often mentioned in threads recently? Probably, but I don't think he poses much of a threat to Rauch, unless I'm missing something.

duke of dorwood
01-27-2003, 05:23 PM
Some additional , welcome depth.

hold2dibber
01-27-2003, 05:26 PM
I like these signings. As I've been harping for the last few weeks, the Sox need a little more depth in the rotation. Loaiza and/or Heredia should prove to be half decent no. 5 starter should one of the guys currently in the rotation falter. I presume that neither is going to be handed the no. 5 spot, but instead will have to beat out Rauch. Works for me.

I have no idea what the hell the Sox plan on doing with Daubach. The team clearly needs someone with a little left-handed pop, but I just don't see where he fits in on the roster, particularly since the Sox already signed Rios.

gosox41
01-27-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by delben91
Loaiza and Daubach are both mildly intriguing. Could Esteban be that "pitcher brought in to compete for the 5th spot that can go to the minors if he doesn't win it" so often mentioned in threads recently? Probably, but I don't think he poses much of a threat to Rauch, unless I'm missing something.


All three look like a waste to me. Gil Heredia???? C'mon. Rauch could outpitch him. Daubach was overrated a couple of years ago and has finally come down to earth. Odds are against Loiaza being anything productive. I'm certain Rauch could be better then him too next season.

Bob

voodoochile
01-27-2003, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I like these signings. As I've been harping for the last few weeks, the Sox need a little more depth in the rotation. Loaiza and/or Heredia should prove to be half decent no. 5 starter should one of the guys currently in the rotation falter. I presume that neither is going to be handed the no. 5 spot, but instead will have to beat out Rauch. Works for me.

I have no idea what the hell the Sox plan on doing with Daubach. The team clearly needs someone with a little left-handed pop, but I just don't see where he fits in on the roster, particularly since the Sox already signed Rios.

Can Rios play CF? If so, they might let Harris get a year at AAA practicing 2B for 2004 when Valentin's contract is up and Jimenez moves to SS. It would make the bench much more experienced and stronger, IMO.

OfficerKarkovice
01-27-2003, 05:33 PM
I love these moves. This is what championship teams do, add small but possibly productive veterans to compete with the young kids coming in. Very good moves by KW in my opinion.

Daver
01-27-2003, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Can Rios play CF?

He can barely handle left...........

CHISOXFAN13
01-27-2003, 05:50 PM
Even if Rauch does outperform these guys, the key to this move is it adds depth and gives us many more options. If they suck, we dump them, if they pitch well, these are tremendous moves.

And the fact of the matter is, Daubach is a better hitter than Liefer.


I LOVE IT!!!

gogosoxgogo
01-27-2003, 06:04 PM
sweet. The more depth, the better. Good moves.

Jjav829
01-27-2003, 06:08 PM
I like the moves. Nothing big but they should provide some depth. I really like Daubach. I would think Heredia would retire if/when he doesn't make the roster. Solid moves.

RichH55
01-27-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
I love these moves. This is what championship teams do, add small but possibly productive veterans to compete with the young kids coming in. Very good moves by KW in my opinion.

Agreed....we used to do this all the time....the Burks and Darren Jacksons

RichH55
01-27-2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Even if Rauch does outperform these guys, the key to this move is it adds depth and gives us many more options. If they suck, we dump them, if they pitch well, these are tremendous moves.

And the fact of the matter is, Daubach is a better hitter than Liefer.


I LOVE IT!!!

Daubach could very well turn out well.....looks like Ortiz is still out there as well

RedPinStripes
01-27-2003, 06:22 PM
Nice moves, but i know of one person who is real happy about these moves.

:jerry
"STOP!..................... Tinker time!"

Hullett_Fan
01-27-2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Agreed....we used to do this all the time....the Burks and Darren Jacksons


But Jackson, and especially Burks, were good players. :D:

Daubauch is a slight improvement on Liefer (.260 hitter compared to .220 hitter).

Loaiza is done. Heredia probably can't regain his 2001 form either. Even if he does I'm sure Rauch would put up equal if not better numbers.

I would rather we re-sign Lofton or even better, picked up Darryl Ward for cheap like the Dodgers just did. As far as pitching, we should've taken a chance on Graehm Lloyd.

jeremyb1
01-27-2003, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Hullett_Fan
But Jackson, and especially Burks, were good players. :D:

Daubauch is a slight improvement on Liefer (.260 hitter compared to .220 hitter).

Loaiza is done. Heredia probably can't regain his 2001 form either. Even if he does I'm sure Rauch would put up equal if not better numbers.

I would rather we re-sign Lofton or even better, picked up Darryl Ward for cheap like the Dodgers just did. As far as pitching, we should've taken a chance on Graehm Lloyd.

great moves in my opinion. we have absolutely nothing to lose with these deals and its possible that a guy like this could come up huge. i'm a huge fan of loaiza. he should provide fair competition for rauch in the spring and whoever doesn't win the fifth starters spot can then be our long reliever.

i don't really see where heredia and daubach will fit in on the team but again we have nothing to lose here. daubach could be some good lefty pop off the bat and perhaps would be a better player to spell frank and paully once and a while than rios.

MarkEdward
01-27-2003, 06:42 PM
Thoughts...

Daubach: Well, we needed someone with a little power on the bench, and I guess we got him. Probably won't challenge Thomas or Konerko to a roster spot. Josh Paul probably loses a roster spot, however.

Heredia: Didn't play in the majors (or minors) last year. 4.26 ERA for Hermosillo in the Mexican Pacific League. Low risk signing, but he should be released after spring training.

Loazia: Nothing special. Rauch deserves to start over these two pitchers.

By the way, I'd really love that Baseball Prospectus internship. Too bad I'm not even in college yet.

delben91
01-27-2003, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Nice moves, but i know of one person who is real happy about these moves.

:jerry
"STOP!..................... Tinker time!"

Oh wow, MC Hammer references. I'd thought I'd managed to repress all memories of his songs...

Pete_SSAC
01-27-2003, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Daubach could very well turn out well.....looks like Ortiz is still out there as well

Bzzztt...

David Ortiz signed with the Sox already.

Red Sox.

Anyway, I like these signings, becuase they basicly cost nothing and give us a bit more freedom to well... umm...

:jerry
"Say it!"

No , I don't want to!

:jerry
"Say it damn you!"

Noooooooo.....

:jerry
"Do it! Do it now or else I shoot the bunny!"

Fine, it gives us a bit more freedom to tinker.

:jerry
"Damn straight."

- Pete

Daver
01-27-2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Pete_SSAC

"Do it! Do it now or else I shoot the bunny!"


Go ahead and shoot it,bunny is tasty,makes great mincemeat pie.

:)

baggio202
01-27-2003, 08:50 PM
the daubach signing is really interesting to me because brian , according to the red sox mlb board ,turned down a pretty decent offer from the d-rays where he would have been gaurenteed to play everyday to sign with us..i know its tampa but it seems to me at 30 , the best career move is to go anywhere , where you play everyday for one year..put up good numbers then look for a better long term deal...sitting on our bench will not help his career...just has me wondering, since brian can play LF if something else is in the works with carlos lee...moving him and his 4.2 million dollar contract to free up payroll to add the final piece of the puzzle..whatever KW deems that to be...i remember him saying in a interview last week ( sorry -cant find the link) that he wanted to make a few more moves but was tapped out..could this be a way to get untapped???..i dont think daubach is a good choice as an everyday LF ..but i never thought carlos was either...

also i think the burke signing was a good one..or just about any catcher that is functional at the AAA level since we dont have a catcher on the roster there now...he is way past prospect age at 29, but he did hit 8 - 44 - 304 at triple A salt lake last year... depending on when sandy goes on the DL and what happens to josh paul if he doesnt make the opening day roster...burke could end up our number 2 catcher..boy thats kinda scary..

i think loiaza and heredia are just around to make things a little uncomfortable for rauch..just to push him a little...they will be gone by pening..loiaza maybe stays if he is willing to go to charlotte...other signings arnt worth mentioning much...

delben91
01-27-2003, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
loiaza maybe stays if he is willing to go to charlotte

I could picture Loaiza ending up as the long relief guy out of the bullpen. Does he have any history of pitching in relief?

MarkEdward
01-27-2003, 09:25 PM
Some more thoughts...

Burke- I'd let him start in Charlotte, but I doubt he'll hit better than Josh Paul.

Now that the Marlins have Ivan Rodriguez, and with Mike Redmond backing him up, Ramon Castro can be *so* easily had.

Brumbaugh- Nice pick-up. Primary call-up if one of our corner players go down.

Cooper- Well, I guess the Knights do need a fifth starter...

WinningUgly!
01-27-2003, 09:30 PM
Brian Daubach's a nice guy to have on the bench, incase Konerko, Maggs, Thomas or Lee miss a stretch of time with an injury. I don't see much of a need for Rios anymore, other than giving JM a chance to bench Pauly & Maggs against tough righties.

pissonthecubs
01-27-2003, 09:49 PM
Part of me agrees with the thought that this could be a good trade that could help the club with some minor help after making the couple of big trades for the team. but also the other half of me wants to think "what in the world is Kenny thinking!!!" why these 3 guys? what do they bring to the table? i don't know. if i had to choose a side, i would have to lean to the side of its a deal that is going to work out in the end. lets just hope for the best, and have fun at SoxFest.

____________
"It takes hundreds of nuts to build a motorcycle, and just one in a car to wreck it."

lowesox
01-27-2003, 09:56 PM
I think that this is what WhiteSox fans have been hoping for. We're finally operating like a championship level team. I like the idea of having Daubach as a pinch hitter for the playoffs. Guys like Heredia, and Loaiza are great too, because a pitching staff next to never goes wire to wire without an injury. And, if either of those guys beats Rauch out for the number 5 job, I'm all for it. Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for Rauch in that spot, but I wouldn't want to see him get handed the job if he had an ERA in the 6's. Congratulations KW. There was a time where I couldn't write a post without calling for your head. The last 4-5 moves you've made, I couldn't agree more with.

Daver
01-27-2003, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by pissonthecubs
[B]Part of me agrees with the thought that this could be a good trade that could help the club with some minor help after making the couple of big trades for the team. but also the other half of me wants to think "what in the world is Kenny thinking!!!" why these 3 guys? what do they bring to the table? i don't know. if i had to choose a side, i would have to lean to the side of its a deal that is going to work out in the end. lets just hope for the best, and have fun at SoxFest.




May I remind you that these are all minor league contracts?

Lip Man 1
01-27-2003, 10:04 PM
So much for being "tapped out" eh? (told you so!)

Overall I like the moves. Daubach especially since he can drive in runs with some pop. Heredia and Loaiza are low risk, big return types.

I'd still rather have Suppan or Helling but maybe they are asking for more then Williams is willing to pay. At least the two guys he signed bring some experience and depth and can push the "can't miss kids," although frankly I'd be surprised if either one made the opening day roster.

Those other guys are still out there so maybe the Sox aren't done. (let's hope so!)

Lip

Daver
01-27-2003, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
So much for being "tapped out" eh? (told you so!)

Overall I like the moves. Daubach especially since he can drive in runs with some pop. Heredia and Loaiza are low risk, big return types.



Mark,watch out,your getting real close to sounding like you are supporting KW...................


:)

Lip Man 1
01-27-2003, 10:44 PM
Daver:

People have accused me of a lot of things (especially the high school stat geeks) but not being honest isn't one of them.

I give credit where credit is due and for right now, Williams deserves kudos! (of course these moves still have to work you understand! LOL)

Oh by the way the Tribune story that just came out on the signings has this little nuggett...seems like Kenny still hasn't given up on a few veteran pitchers that we have been talking about:

"Sox general manager Ken Williams would rather have signed either Chuck Finley or Kenny Rogers , two veteran lefties still on the market, but their price tags were too high.

"I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with creative ways to at least entertain the possibilities of fitting them into the picture," Williams said."

That quote sounds to me like he like to have BOTH. perhaps as they get nearer to Spring training, the price will go down if they haven't been signed.

I think the Sox are going to nab one of them.

Lip

Daver
01-27-2003, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Daver:

People have accused me of a lot of things (especially the high school stat geeks) but not being honest isn't one of them.



Mark,I was being sarcastic,I for one thing KW has taken a large leap forward in the learning curve of being a big league GM.

delben91
01-27-2003, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I give credit where credit is due and for right now, Williams deserves kudos!

That quote sounds to me like he like to have BOTH. perhaps as they get nearer to Spring training, the price will go down if they haven't been signed.

I think the Sox are going to nab one of them.

Amazing. Last October, any member of these boards probably would've posted those two thoughts in teal (KW deserving kudos) and deep pink (the rest). What a difference an offseason can make in our point of view, mine included.

Originally posted by daver
I for one thing KW has taken a large leap forward in the learning curve of being a big league GM.

And prbably would've been a little more teal and/or deep pink here too!

KW, keep it going sir. Here's to you :gulp:

soxtalker
01-27-2003, 11:39 PM
I wonder if most of these moves were done primarily to fill out Charlotte's roster. I seem to recall rumblings that they weren't exactly happy with the quality of the talent that Sox had been providing them over the past year or so.

Daver
01-27-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
I wonder if most of these moves were done primarily to fill out Charlotte's roster. I seem to recall rumblings that they weren't exactly happy with the quality of the talent that Sox had been providing them over the past year or so.

The fact that they do not have a single catcher on their roster tends to make your point.

RichH55
01-28-2003, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by daver
The fact that they do not have a single catcher on their roster tends to make your point.


They are just putting Bodies back there anyway....It seems that whoever is the Charlotte Opening Day catcher is the equivalent to Bill Weddington(sic)

NewyorkSoxFan
01-28-2003, 08:47 AM
I agree with Daver, I think K Dub' has taken a big step in his career. I like the moves they don't really cost you much, however he must have something else up his sleeve.

I hope for all of our sakes that all these work out for him, he has obviously worked hard this offseason trying to improve the club, I just hope the guys in the uniforms do their job and perform at a level that is expected of them.

My main concern is Manuel, he better have this team ready to go this spring, no excuses. He is getting alot of support and there is no reason for these guys to come out lackadaisical.

NYSF

duke of dorwood
01-28-2003, 08:56 AM
Manual is ALWAYS a concern.

hold2dibber
01-28-2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
"Sox general manager Ken Williams would rather have signed either Chuck Finley or Kenny Rogers , two veteran lefties still on the market, but their price tags were too high.

"I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with creative ways to at least entertain the possibilities of fitting them into the picture," Williams said."

That quote sounds to me like he like to have BOTH. perhaps as they get nearer to Spring training, the price will go down if they haven't been signed.

I think the Sox are going to nab one of them.

Lip

Good Lord - that sounds like optimism, Lip. I didn't know ya had it in ye!

hold2dibber
01-28-2003, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by baggio202
the daubach signing is really interesting to me because brian , according to the red sox mlb board ,turned down a pretty decent offer from the d-rays where he would have been gaurenteed to play everyday to sign with us..i know its tampa but it seems to me at 30 , the best career move is to go anywhere , where you play everyday for one year..put up good numbers then look for a better long term deal...sitting on our bench will not help his career...just has me wondering, since brian can play LF if something else is in the works with carlos lee...moving him and his 4.2 million dollar contract to free up payroll to add the final piece of the puzzle..whatever KW deems that to be...i remember him saying in a interview last week ( sorry -cant find the link) that he wanted to make a few more moves but was tapped out..could this be a way to get untapped???..i dont think daubach is a good choice as an everyday LF ..but i never thought carlos was either...


Alternatively, isn't Daubach from the Chicago area? I wonder if he is one of those rare guys who just wants to play near home/for a team he liked growing up, even if that isn't the best career move for him.

And as much as I like Daubach coming off the bench, the thought of him as the everyday LF over Carlos is not a happy thought. He simply does not provide even close to the fire power Carlos brings to the table.

soxtalker
01-28-2003, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
I agree with Daver, I think K Dub' has taken a big step in his career. I like the moves they don't really cost you much, however he must have something else up his sleeve.

I hope for all of our sakes that all these work out for him, he has obviously worked hard this offseason trying to improve the club, I just hope the guys in the uniforms do their job and perform at a level that is expected of them.

My main concern is Manuel, he better have this team ready to go this spring, no excuses. He is getting alot of support and there is no reason for these guys to come out lackadaisical.

NYSF

It seems that KW has been systematically removing the people Schueler brought in, so I'd expect him to have very little room for error. (Now, I am not in the camp that has a strong disdain for Manuel, though I'm tending to look at him much more critically after seeing the various comments on this board.)

moochpuppy
01-28-2003, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Alternatively, isn't Daubach from the Chicago area? I wonder if he is one of those rare guys who just wants to play near home/for a team he liked growing up, even if that isn't the best career move for him.

Could Daubach think the Sox give him the best chance to win a title?


Originally posted by hold2dibber
And as much as I like Daubach coming off the bench, the thought of him as the everyday LF over Carlos is not a happy thought. He simply does not provide even close to the fire power Carlos brings to the table.

With that being said, plus the fact that Daubach is more of a first baseman, could KW be trying to move someone other than Lee.

:walnuts

harwar
01-28-2003, 10:17 AM
I've gone to hating everything K.W. does to liking it.Very strange.I like these moves also.Heredia and Loiza were very good pitchers in 2001.Especially Loiza who pitched lights out the first half of that year(until he got hurt) and (i'm not sure)but i believe he made the allstar team.I can't see any downside to this as they all come very cheap and if they don't work out its no big deal.

voodoochile
01-28-2003, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by moochpuppy
With that being said, plus the fact that Daubach is more of a first baseman, could KW be trying to move someone other than Lee.

:walnuts

I was wondering the same thing. As much as we like konerko's personality and leadership, he really is an average 1st baseman statistically speaking. If they can get similar numbers out of Daubach, then trading Paulie not only saves them money, it gives them a bigger name/talent to deal with.

hold2dibber
01-28-2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I was wondering the same thing. As much as we like konerko's personality and leadership, he really is an average 1st baseman statistically speaking. If they can get similar numbers out of Daubach, then trading Paulie not only saves them money, it gives them a bigger name/talent to deal with.

If you look at Daubach's '02 stats compared to PK's (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_sortable_player_stats.jsp?section1=null&statSet1=null&statType=1&sortByStat=HR&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2002&baseballScope=AL&prevPage1=1&readBoxes=true&subScope=teamCode&teamPosCode=all&box20=XXXX117244cha3&box38=XXXX136766bos3&compare.x=24&compare.y=6), they're not THAT different. PK was clearly better, but not by as much as I would have thought, particularly if you take into account the fact that PK had about 125 more ABs. On the other hand, Daubach can't really hit lefties - .734 OPS last year, compared to .824 vs. righties. Surpisingly, PK was much better against righties last year, too - .754 vs. lefties, .885 vs. righties.

If they could deal PK (in a package) for another top starter or for Beltran (unlikely since PK makes decent $), I'd probably do it. But I for one highly doubt that's in the offing. I think Daubach's here to provide left handed pop off the bench. Period.

LauraJ14
01-28-2003, 01:39 PM
Who will be Konerko's backup at first? Since Liefer is gone and Frank only played 4 games there last year. Can Graffanino play there or is Manual going to put Frank out there?

jcw218
01-28-2003, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Alternatively, isn't Daubach from the Chicago area?


Daubach is from Belleville, IL.