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jortafan
01-26-2003, 06:04 PM
Just a little something from St. Louis to stir up the worst conspiracy theorists amongst you. Enjoy.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/Sports/Cardinals/57B9E03410A5F42B86256CBA001CC0F2?OpenDocument&Headline=Baseball+quips+helped+to+warm+up+the+wint er+last+week

WinningUgly!
01-26-2003, 06:26 PM
Manager Tony La Russa, addressing the issue, said that Buehrle's family had been working on him to get the lefthander here.

Then, a kidding La Russa said, "I know there's no one at this (head) table who would ever nab me for tampering and tell you that you will be in a St. Louis uniform when your contract status allows."

Somebody needs to get LaRussa a great big bag of SHUT THE HELL UP!

HawkDJ
01-26-2003, 10:17 PM
This Buehrle-St Louis-KW thing is making me sick!

Lip Man 1
01-26-2003, 11:21 PM
White Sox "management" certainly isn't helping things are they?

Lip

WinningUgly!
01-26-2003, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
White Sox "management" certainly isn't helping things are they?

Lip

No they are not. They should forget about offering him a "fair" deal. Pay him more than what is fair. Reward the guy for developing into an ace & pay him like one.

Tragg
01-27-2003, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
No they are not. They should forget about offering him a "fair" deal. Pay him more than what is fair. Reward the guy for developing into an ace & pay him like one.

Agree with that. And the sox offer was below market by my book (offered koch a lot more money; more money for clayton, e.g.).

CHISOXFAN13
01-27-2003, 12:28 AM
I understand why everyone is frustrated about ownership's inability to ink Mark to a fair deal. However, it's pretty obvious he doesn't want to be here regardless of what kind of deal he is offered. As a Sox fan, I'm ticked off about his comments at that luncheon.

gogosoxgogo
01-27-2003, 01:44 AM
This thing is really making me sick. I'm beginning to really be persuaded more and more that we should trade him while we can still get something in return.

Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
I understand why everyone is frustrated about ownership's inability to ink Mark to a fair deal. However, it's pretty obvious he doesn't want to be here regardless of what kind of deal he is offered. As a Sox fan, I'm ticked off about his comments at that luncheon.

I second that. He really shouldn't be saying these types of things when he's still in a contract with another team. That really shows where his heart his.

RichH55
01-27-2003, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Agree with that. And the sox offer was below market by my book (offered koch a lot more money; more money for clayton, e.g.).

How did we offer more money for Clayton? We traded for him, no? Unless we gave him a raise upon his arrival to Chicago, I fail to see how we offered him more/less than market value....and with Koch he is going to arbitration, so that pretty much dictates the contract value.......

RichH55
01-27-2003, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
I understand why everyone is frustrated about ownership's inability to ink Mark to a fair deal. However, it's pretty obvious he doesn't want to be here regardless of what kind of deal he is offered. As a Sox fan, I'm ticked off about his comments at that luncheon.

I'm with you on this.....and from what I understand(granted who really knows for sure)...the Sox did offer him a deal in line with what should be his peers....if He thinks he can shut up and pitch and be rewarded by arbitrators and the market...then more power to him, but if this is simply because he doesnt want to be with the White Sox, then lets say I'm not Buerhle's biggest supporter.....

One thing though..if he pitches and gets hurt...I don't want to hear how it is the White Sox fault that he either a.) got hurt or b.) Doesnt have the security of a long term deal to fall back on

michigan84
01-27-2003, 02:42 AM
I said this before, we should consider trading him. A guy that so obviously doesn't want to play for this organization could start to be a big problem in the clubhouse. I agree that management plays some part in this, however Buehrle's comments are unwarrented. He is showing total disrespect for the White Sox in making these remarks. How would Ford like it if one of their top execs made remarks that he wants to manage for GM? That is how I equate these remarks by Buehrle. He may have grown up a Cardinals fan, but he needs to keep his desire to play for them to himself instead of constantly expressing it. I'm getting really sick of his remarks. Some of you may think I am overreacting, but I think player happiness and team chemistry play a big role in a winning team. Buehrle just needs to shut up and play for the Sox, KW should inform him that comments like these are unacceptable. If it continues, I would trade him. I don't care how much talent you have, you must show respect to your employer (the hand that feeds you) which is obviously not happening in this case

jeremyb1
01-27-2003, 03:23 AM
its absolutely ridiculous. what is he thinking? after going to the lengths he went to last season to cover up the remarks why do the exact same thing again? i think buehrle really likes to screw with people just to get a rise out of them and this is a clear case of that. i can understand he wants to pitch there but its offensive for him to say these things in public assuming he's genuine.

Viva Magglio
01-27-2003, 12:25 PM
Is Burly-mon coming to SoxFest? I'd love to see how he fields this issue at a seminar.

gogosoxgogo
01-27-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Is Burly-mon coming to SoxFest? I'd love to see how he fields this issue at a seminar.

That's a great idea, yes he is going. We should put him on the spot, see what he has to say. These comments by him really piss me off.

FarmerAndy
01-27-2003, 12:44 PM
I can't believe anybody would want to trade Buehrle. Whether he likes it here or not, he isn't a free agent until after 2006. We have him for four more seasons! And if he wants to go to St. Louis that bad, he's going to have to continue to pitch good for the Sox while he is here.

Four seasons is a real long time in baseball. Do you think if we traded Buehrle now we would get something in return that would be equal to four more sesons of Mark Buehrle? I highly doubt it.

Hullett_Fan
01-27-2003, 12:49 PM
IIRC, Buerhle isn't eligible for FA until after 2005 season.

IMO, We should keep him here another season and then trade him to STL for JD Drew and Fernando Vina.

P.S. The people down there are strange. I went to Cards game during a trip down there. It's like going back in time 20 years. Everyone's wearing red Izod shirts and slacks at the park. My friend told me they all wear red turtlenecks when it's cooler early/late in the season.

gogosoxgogo
01-27-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Hullett_Fan
IIRC, Buerhle isn't eligible for FA until after 2005 season.

IMO, We should keep him here another season and then trade him to STL for JD Drew and Fernando Vina.

P.S. The people down there are strange. I went to Cards game during a trip down there. It's like going back in time 20 years. Everyone's wearing red Izod shirts and slacks at the park. My friend told me they all wear red turtlenecks when it's cooler early/late in the season.

He's after the 2006 season. Anyone think we could get Pujols for him? :)

soxruleEP
01-27-2003, 01:08 PM
Trading him now woul dnot get equal value. He is Sox property until 2006.

That said--Sox management shouldn't be paying the absolute least they can just because they can.

I don't think he'll be a problem in the clubhouse. The way he handles himself ont he field indicates where he is at.

This kind of crap upsets us, but the other ballplayers know what's up.

This is further reason why Reinsdorf needs to sell the team.

Hullett_Fan
01-27-2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
He's after the 2006 season. Anyone think we could get Pujols for him? :)


Oops. Thanks.

The Sox should offer him a 3-4 year deal at market value (i.e. salary near 8-10 best ML pitchers). If that's what JR offered and he didn't accept it..he should just learn to live with being paid year to year. Most people have day-to-day security!

I'm all for getting Pujols.

Lip Man 1
01-27-2003, 01:50 PM
Random Thoughts:

1. Last year after Mark made his comments at that dinner, some posters said Sox fans were "overreacting" that it was all a joke. After Mark rejected a multi year offer by the Sox last month these same posters said that nothing should be read into it. Just wondering what the "optimists" are thinking now?

2. Personal opinion but I don't think it matters one iota how much the Sox pay Mark over the next few years. They can overpay him, they can underpay him and it won't change a thing. He's gone the first chance he gets.

3. So I again ask what I originally posted after reading Steve Rosenbloom's comments after Mark rejected the multi year deal (and took some heat for it...) At what point do the Sox trade him? (In order to get maximum value in return, or do they wait and risk getting nothing for him, or less then nothing because they waited to long...)

4. Some of things that have happened over the past two years ultimately may not have mattered to Mark. He may be dead set on going to St. Louis but I think everyone can agree, they didn't help the situation and may have poisoned it more.

Lip

jeremyb1
01-27-2003, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Random Thoughts:

1. Last year after Mark made his comments at that dinner, some posters said Sox fans were "overreacting" that it was all a joke. After Mark rejected a multi year offer by the Sox last month these same posters said that nothing should be read into it. Just wondering what the "optimists" are thinking now?

2. Personal opinion but I don't think it matters one iota how much the Sox pay Mark over the next few years. They can overpay him, they can underpay him and it won't change a thing. He's gone the first chance he gets.

3. So I again ask what I originally posted after reading Steve Rosenbloom's comments after Mark rejected the multi year deal (and took some heat for it...) At what point do the Sox trade him? (In order to get maximum value in return, or do they wait and risk getting nothing for him, or less then nothing because they waited to long...)

4. Some of things that have happened over the past two years ultimately may not have mattered to Mark. He may be dead set on going to St. Louis but I think everyone can agree, they didn't help the situation and may have poisoned it more.

the contract situation and his desire to go to st. louis are two completely different situations. we never tried to extend his deal so the contract negotions have no effect on how long he'll be a member of the sox.

i don't think it was unreasonable to believe buehrle was joking last season. its still possible that he was. he claimed he was joking and i don't think its unreasonable to take people at their word. also, the fact that in theory most people aren't stupid enough to seriously make public comments about playing for another organization four seasons before your contract expires. i'm not sure anyone ever rejected the idea buehrle wanted to play for st. louis, only said that it was not clear how badly he wanted to play there and whether or not he was upset with the whitesox.

mrwag
01-27-2003, 01:59 PM
Sox need to keep him for another 3 years atleast. Heck, he could blow his arm out 2 years from now and be worthless anyway. Knowing that he has 4 more seasons to build his value, he'll continue to pitch as good as he can. He just needs to keep these feelings to himself.

Brian26
01-27-2003, 02:08 PM
How about Matt Morris and Vina for Buehrle??

:)

hold2dibber
01-27-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
2. Personal opinion but I don't think it matters one iota how much the Sox pay Mark over the next few years. They can overpay him, they can underpay him and it won't change a thing. He's gone the first chance he gets.


Exactly - that's the key to this whole situation. As of right now, he's clearly gone after '06. That means he is under Sox control for 4 more seasons. I don't give a crap any more, what they pay him during those 4 seasons, since it certainly seems like he's going to leave after those 4 seasons are up. I think any Sox contract offer to him now should be for 5 or 6 years. If all we're going to get out of the deal is the opportunity to pay him more without extending the stay, what's the point. Right now, blaming management for not offering more $ seems ridiculous. So we pay him $15 million over the next 4 years instead of $10 million, then he leaves anyway. Why would we want to do that?

voodoochile
01-27-2003, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Exactly - that's the key to this whole situation. As of right now, he's clearly gone after '06. That means he is under Sox control for 4 more seasons. I don't give a crap any more, what they pay him during those 4 seasons, since it certainly seems like he's going to leave after those 4 seasons are up. I think any Sox contract offer to him now should be for 5 or 6 years. If all we're going to get out of the deal is the opportunity to pay him more without extending the stay, what's the point. Right now, blaming management for not offering more $ seems ridiculous. So we pay him $15 million over the next 4 years instead of $10 million, then he leaves anyway. Why would we want to do that?

If Buerhle continues to improve, it will cost the Sox a LOT more money to go to arbitration each year than sign him to a long term deal upfront.

HawkDJ
01-27-2003, 04:57 PM
I undestand management is treating him like total crap and that he grew up in St. Louis and I hope he does amazing things for us until he leaves but comments like these make him one of my least respected players on the team. If he plans to leave then fine but he doesn't have to mention it every chance he gets and then try to cover it up.

hold2dibber
01-27-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by HawkDJ2k2
I undestand management is treating him like total crap and that he grew up in St. Louis and I hope he does amazing things for us until he leaves but comments like these make him one of my least respected players on the team. If he plans to leave then fine but he doesn't have to mention it every chance he gets and then try to cover it up.

I agree - I totally understand why he'd want to play for the team he grew up rooting for. But its simply bad form to make that desire known publicly.

RichH55
01-27-2003, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
If Buerhle continues to improve, it will cost the Sox a LOT more money to go to arbitration each year than sign him to a long term deal upfront.

Very True....but the question has become(to me at least) is Buerhle playing contract games because he thinks he can justify the risk by pitching well and getting more that way, or is he wanting to go to St. Louis come hell or high water

RichH55
01-27-2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
the contract situation and his desire to go to st. louis are two completely different situations. we never tried to extend his deal so the contract negotions have no effect on how long he'll be a member of the sox.

i don't think it was unreasonable to believe buehrle was joking last season. its still possible that he was. he claimed he was joking and i don't think its unreasonable to take people at their word. also, the fact that in theory most people aren't stupid enough to seriously make public comments about playing for another organization four seasons before your contract expires. i'm not sure anyone ever rejected the idea buehrle wanted to play for st. louis, only said that it was not clear how badly he wanted to play there and whether or not he was upset with the whitesox.

Jeremy, I'm usually in your camp on issues and you still make some valid points, but Buerhle is getting close to taking that last step into making a conspiracy theory into reality...that is what scares me

RichH55
01-27-2003, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Random Thoughts:

1. Last year after Mark made his comments at that dinner, some posters said Sox fans were "overreacting" that it was all a joke. After Mark rejected a multi year offer by the Sox last month these same posters said that nothing should be read into it. Just wondering what the "optimists" are thinking now?

2. Personal opinion but I don't think it matters one iota how much the Sox pay Mark over the next few years. They can overpay him, they can underpay him and it won't change a thing. He's gone the first chance he gets.

3. So I again ask what I originally posted after reading Steve Rosenbloom's comments after Mark rejected the multi year deal (and took some heat for it...) At what point do the Sox trade him? (In order to get maximum value in return, or do they wait and risk getting nothing for him, or less then nothing because they waited to long...)

4. Some of things that have happened over the past two years ultimately may not have mattered to Mark. He may be dead set on going to St. Louis but I think everyone can agree, they didn't help the situation and may have poisoned it more.

Lip

Lip, well you know we don't normally agree, but Buerhle does concern me........But he is ours for awhile. Still need to make every effort to sign him longer term, but until then he pitches to his arm falls off.....If it becomes inevitable that he is going elsewhere, ship him off and get the best deal in return, but I don't forsee that as a viable option for at least two more years

jeremyb1
01-27-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Jeremy, I'm usually in your camp on issues and you still make some valid points, but Buerhle is getting close to taking that last step into making a conspiracy theory into reality...that is what scares me

it certainly looks like his gone but many players leave via free agency. i agree it can be troublesome but you have to remember how long four seasons is. that means that barring injury buehrle will still start over 120 more games in a white sox uniform. that means by the time he leaves he'll be 28 years old. its troublesome if you worry about it now but there's no point in worrying too much about something that's 4 years away. buehrle could change his mind or turn into a less effective pitcher in four seasons. st. louis might not be interested for whatever reason in four seasons. its a long ways off.

Huisj
01-27-2003, 07:44 PM
what if the sox win back-to-back-to-back-to-back world series' in the next 4 years and the cardinals finish in last all four years? think he'll still leave?

ok maybe that's a stretch, but yeah, lots can happen in 4 years. he could turn into steve avery.

Tragg
01-27-2003, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
How did we offer more money for Clayton? We traded for him, no? Unless we gave him a raise upon his arrival to Chicago, I fail to see how we offered him more/less than market value....and with Koch he is going to arbitration, so that pretty much dictates the contract value.......

How? We traded for a mediocre player under contract at 4.5million per - that's how. No one made us do the deal.
Sure, arbitration forces hands. Is that the idea with MB - wait until the arb year? REgardless, 3 million a year, which is about what the MB offer was, is below market.

MisterB
01-27-2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
How? We traded for a mediocre player under contract at 4.5million per - that's how. No one made us do the deal.
Sure, arbitration forces hands. Is that the idea with MB - wait until the arb year? REgardless, 3 million a year, which is about what the MB offer was, is below market.

Until a player is FA eligible, there is no 'market'. A player has 3 years where the team pays him whatever they want. Then 3 years where he can make his case for more based on players of similar ability and experience. After that he gets what the market will offer him.

As for players with similar ability and experience (at the time of their deals):

Barry Zito - 4yr/$9.3M = $2.325M/yr
Tim Hudson - 5yr/$14.7M = $2.94M/yr
Mark Mulder - 4yr/$14.2M = $3.55M/yr
Bartolo Colon - 5yr/$17.25M = $3.45M/yr
CC Sabathia - 4yr/$9.5M = $2.375M/yr

By those figures, I don't think averaging $3M/year is out of line. My theory is that it was the length of the contract (3y) that was the stumbling block, as all these guys got 4 or 5 year deals. (Damn Reinsdorf and his Jaime Navarro flashbacks...)

RichH55
01-28-2003, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
How? We traded for a mediocre player under contract at 4.5million per - that's how. No one made us do the deal.
Sure, arbitration forces hands. Is that the idea with MB - wait until the arb year? REgardless, 3 million a year, which is about what the MB offer was, is below market.

He had a guarunteed(sic) contract prior to the White Sox Period.

Someone else offered him over market value, he didn't fit with the White Sox at all, but we didn't offer him that contract....He was going to get paid White Sox or no White Sox

RichH55
01-28-2003, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
it certainly looks like his gone but many players leave via free agency. i agree it can be troublesome but you have to remember how long four seasons is. that means that barring injury buehrle will still start over 120 more games in a white sox uniform. that means by the time he leaves he'll be 28 years old. its troublesome if you worry about it now but there's no point in worrying too much about something that's 4 years away. buehrle could change his mind or turn into a less effective pitcher in four seasons. st. louis might not be interested for whatever reason in four seasons. its a long ways off.


I agree with you Jeremy....and chances are he might get hurt during this time as well, but the point of most of the posts was that Buerhle was crossing that line between good natured St Louis conspiracy theory and flat out distraction/future problem. I am in no way in favor of letting Buerhle get what he wants as long as we have the option. But realistically we might have to trade him, and if we view that as inevitable, then you look for the time to maximize his value. That probably means nothing to next year, and hell it could mean pitching him every day until he is out of a White Sox uniform 4 years from now, but to not look at that future posibility would be foolhardy.

RichH55
01-28-2003, 02:14 AM
Jeremy, if it becomes a "fact" that Buerhle indeed wants to jump ship at the earliest moment, doesn't that at some point become a problem? You have a guy who is openly pining for greener pastures, has the posibility to become upset and that could hurt his performance, and could very well damage team chemistry(which can be quite important, especially on a young team IMHO)....It is issues like this that can divide a team into competing camps, someone says the wrong thing to the wrong reporter and all of a sudden the little thing spirals into a circus.....THe Sox don't exactly get the best coverage as it is, something tells me if the Buerhle story got juicier that we would be given the benefit of the doubt

jeremyb1
01-28-2003, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
Jeremy, if it becomes a "fact" that Buerhle indeed wants to jump ship at the earliest moment, doesn't that at some point become a problem? You have a guy who is openly pining for greener pastures, has the posibility to become upset and that could hurt his performance, and could very well damage team chemistry(which can be quite important, especially on a young team IMHO)....It is issues like this that can divide a team into competing camps, someone says the wrong thing to the wrong reporter and all of a sudden the little thing spirals into a circus.....THe Sox don't exactly get the best coverage as it is, something tells me if the Buerhle story got juicier that we would be given the benefit of the doubt

i absolutely agree with you that at some point it becomes a problem. however, i don't think trading buehrle is any kind of solution. he's simply too good. there isn't really anyone we could trade for thats a 24 year old ace with four years left with what should be a reasonable amount of money. i doubt oakland would bite and trade one of the big three for buehrle. maybe hudson because he only has about two years left on his deal if i'm correct. i'm just not sure you can get market value for buehrle since he's so good. you ussually end up on the losing end of 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deals unless you lack depth which we don't. what we need is front of the rotation pitching. buehrle may be a problem but his pitching outweighs any problems he could ever create in the clubhouse.

Bmr31
01-28-2003, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i absolutely agree with you that at some point it becomes a problem. however, i don't think trading buehrle is any kind of solution. he's simply too good. there isn't really anyone we could trade for thats a 24 year old ace with four years left with what should be a reasonable amount of money. i doubt oakland would bite and trade one of the big three for buehrle. maybe hudson because he only has about two years left on his deal if i'm correct. i'm just not sure you can get market value for buehrle since he's so good. you ussually end up on the losing end of 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deals unless you lack depth which we don't. what we need is front of the rotation pitching. buehrle may be a problem but his pitching outweighs any problems he could ever create in the clubhouse.

If we trade Buehrle at the right time, we can get a TON for him.

harwar
01-28-2003, 09:51 AM
Right now,it doesn't really matter where Mark wants to play.Ken Williams isn't going to break up his brand new 1-2 punch just to appease a homesick young pitcher.If he cause trouble in the clubhouse,thats nothing new,the Sox have been thru that before with quite a few players.What it comes down to is that Buehrle is under contract and he has to honor same.He also has to grow up a little bit more and learn that we can't always get everything we want.Talk of trading him is slightly ludicrous(although i understand) as like it or not he will help us get to the World Series in a White Sox uniform(sorry Mark).If and when the time comes to trade him i feel that his value a couple of years down the road will be far superior to what it is today.

hold2dibber
01-28-2003, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31
If we trade Buehrle at the right time, we can get a TON for him.

I don't know - the Phillies didn't get a hell of a lot for Curt Schilling, the Mariners didn't get a hell of a lot for Randy Johnson. What you get for a stud starting pitcher is a bunch of "if's". I mean, the Indians got some GREAT prospects when they dealt Colon to Montreal. But they're still just prospects - who knows how they'll turn out. All the Phillies really got out of the Schilling trade was Vincente Padilla, and while he was good last year, he's never going to be as good as Schilling. Its very tough to get equal value in return for a top of the rotation starting pitcher.

34 Inch Stick
01-28-2003, 10:47 AM
Look at Schilling's career numbers. He is pitching better now than at any time in his life. I think Vicente Padilla and other prospects is a decent trade. The Mariners got their current young ace in the Johnson deal + others.

Still you don't trade Buhrle until all hope is over. I may be overstating it but the guy could be a 300 game winner. If the situation is hopeless you trade him with at least a full season on his contract and reap the rewards.

This whole argument is moot until 2005. I am more worried about centerfield/leadoff.

T Dog
01-28-2003, 11:27 AM
Pragmatically, the Sox have only good will to gain by signing MB to a bigger short-term contract that would not affect his free agent year. The apparent offer and rejection of such reflects more poorly on MB and his counsel than the Sox. At the very least, MB should see that this St. Louis stuff is annoying Sox fans.

But if the Sox are indeed a cursed franchise, the fates could conspire a Sox-Cards World Series in MB's free agent year.

Irishsox1
01-28-2003, 02:24 PM
Why do the Cardinals have a "award show" every year where there manager speaks, our best pitcher speaks and they bash the White Sox? How about we have an "awards show" where we give a award to their top pitcher, he shows up and we bash the Cardinals and talk about how great it will be when he becomes a free agent.

If Buehrle wants to play for the Cardinals, then don't play for the Sox, come up with a "injury" stop playing and demand a trade. Better that then pitching for the Sox.

jeremyb1
01-28-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
If we trade Buehrle at the right time, we can get a TON for him.

i don't know. like i said before, the team's biggest need is young, inexpensive, front of the rotation pitching. i don't think we'd get enough for buerhle unless we could get a comperable pitching and no one else wants to part with pitching.

ThisIsTheYear
01-28-2003, 06:26 PM
This is most likely a case of Sox management talking out of both sides of their mouth. For two years they have been calling Buerhle the ace (which prompted me to ask if ace in Latin meant only guy who doesn't suck). And they think he should be paid like a rookie. They can't have it both ways and Buerhle seems to be getting a bit mad.

Daver
01-28-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear
This is most likely a case of Sox management talking out of both sides of their mouth. For two years they have been calling Buerhle the ace (which prompted me to ask if ace in Latin meant only guy who doesn't suck). And they think he should be paid like a rookie. They can't have it both ways and Buerhle seems to be getting a bit mad.

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

ThisIsTheYear
01-28-2003, 06:37 PM
Thanks. I was here last year but forgot my username after the Sox fell apart.

Joel Perez
01-28-2003, 09:24 PM
"I know St. Louis is a lot closer," Buehrle said. "We'll try to work on that."

This is starting to piss me off...if that's the way he wants it, just because he's not getting in his eyes "fair market value", then two can play...unless the Sox are in a pennant race in '05, dump his rear to Montreal for the remainder of the year.

This is bad.

Buerhle has no problems speaking what's on his mind. Fine...I accept that. But I wonder what Sox fans are going to say to Burly-Mon at Sox Fest...man, I wish I was up there!!!

RichH55
01-29-2003, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i absolutely agree with you that at some point it becomes a problem. however, i don't think trading buehrle is any kind of solution. he's simply too good. there isn't really anyone we could trade for thats a 24 year old ace with four years left with what should be a reasonable amount of money. i doubt oakland would bite and trade one of the big three for buehrle. maybe hudson because he only has about two years left on his deal if i'm correct. i'm just not sure you can get market value for buehrle since he's so good. you ussually end up on the losing end of 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deals unless you lack depth which we don't. what we need is front of the rotation pitching. buehrle may be a problem but his pitching outweighs any problems he could ever create in the clubhouse.


I don't mean this year....I think his value crests near the deadline next year or even the year after that....also with so many innings at such a young age, at some point the law of averages might just catch up with Mark