PDA

View Full Version : Another top 100 list


Daver
01-25-2003, 12:36 PM
This one is from Strikethree.com's David Cameron.

How the Sox look:

2. Joe Borchard, OF, Chicago (A)
Middle-of-the-order power and solid defensive skills.

61. Kris Honel, RHP, Chicago (A)
Nasty curveball, improving changeup, and the frame to add velocity. Watch out.

84. Jon Rauch, RHP, Chicago (A)
Wasn't totally back from surgery, but could return to 2001 form this year.

The entire list. (http://www.strikethree.com/03/top100b.shtml)

RichH55
01-25-2003, 12:39 PM
Some real nice studs in the system.....it seems for the past 5 years or so that our system is quality no matter what the Big Leaguers wind up doing

Bmr31
01-25-2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Some real nice studs in the system.....it seems for the past 5 years or so that our system is quality no matter what the Big Leaguers wind up doing

Our system is average. 3 rated in the top 100 would back that up. Personally. I'm a little frustrated that our so called studs arent panning out.

gogosoxgogo
01-25-2003, 01:06 PM
Borchard at 2? I think they're giving him a little too much credit.

Daver
01-25-2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Borchard at 2? I think they're giving him a little too much credit.

Why?

gogosoxgogo
01-25-2003, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by daver
Why?

I just think there are better prospects out there than Borchard besides one guy. Granted, I think Borchard deserves top 15 or so, but I think 2 is a little too high for him. He hasn't shown any plate discipline yet.

Daver
01-25-2003, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
I just think there are better prospects out there than Borchard besides one guy. Granted, I think Borchard deserves top 15 or so, but I think 2 is a little too high for him. He hasn't shown any plate discipline yet.

Jim Thome doesn't have a lot of plate discipline,yet he is a perpetual all star.

What Borchard lacks in plate discipline he makes up for with power from BOTH sides of the plate,something that is not exactly common.

gogosoxgogo
01-25-2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by daver
Jim Thome doesn't have a lot of plate discipline,yet he is a perpetual all star.

What Borchard lacks in plate discipline he makes up for with power from BOTH sides of the plate,something that is not exactly common.

I understand your logic, but Thome can at least hit .300 off of major league hitting. In fact, he's only had one year below .250 - his first year with 100 at bats. I think Borchard has some amazing power, but I don't see him hitting more than 20 homers if he continues to hit under .250 in the majors.

hose
01-25-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by daver
Jim Thome doesn't have a lot of plate discipline,yet he is a perpetual all star.

What Borchard lacks in plate discipline he makes up for with power from BOTH sides of the plate,something that is not exactly common.


I think Borchard can cut down on his strike outs and be a solid switch hitter for the Sox.

Here is a couple of young power hitting outfielders who strike out a lot.(not switch hitters)

Richie Sexson awesome power, high strike out, about a .270 average.

Russell Branyan power, high strike out, about a .230 average.

I know it's a reach comparing an All-Star like Sexson to Branyan , but it shows the difference in batting averages between high strike out power hitters.

MarkEdward
01-25-2003, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Some real nice studs in the system.....it seems for the past 5 years or so that our system is quality no matter what the Big Leaguers wind up doing

We still have no power hitters in the system, except for Borchard. I'm really hoping someone like Micah Schnurstein can continue to be successful, because we really need a corner outfield/infield slugger.

jeremyb1
01-25-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Our system is average. 3 rated in the top 100 would back that up. Personally. I'm a little frustrated that our so called studs arent panning out.

like who? kip wells certainly looks pretty good. as does buehrle, carlos, crede, etc.

ScottyTheSoxFan
01-25-2003, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
like who? kip wells certainly looks pretty good. as does buehrle, carlos, crede, etc.

scotty ruffcorn, aaron myette, mike caruso (maybe the team's fault he was rushed), snopek, etc, etc.

Bmr31
01-25-2003, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by ScottyTheSoxFan
scotty ruffcorn, aaron myette, mike caruso (maybe the team's fault he was rushed), snopek, etc, etc.

I could name 100, but i dont have all day.

Bmr31
01-25-2003, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
like who? kip wells certainly looks pretty good. as does buehrle, carlos, crede, etc.

Carlos and crede? What have they proven? That theyre average? Buehrle was never considered a stud, hes a surprise.

Daver
01-25-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Carlos and crede? What have they proven? That theyre average? Buehrle was never considered a stud, hes a surprise.

I would say it is a little early to pass judgement on Joe Crede,he did collect his fair share of minor league awards though.

I agree that Carlos Lee is average.

Buehrle was a 38th round pick that was well developed by the Sox system,a credit to the minor league system of itself.

RichH55
01-26-2003, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by ScottyTheSoxFan
scotty ruffcorn, aaron myette, mike caruso (maybe the team's fault he was rushed), snopek, etc, etc.

I really dont think Myette was all that highly regarded, though Ruffcorn definately was....Did Caruso ever spend a day in our minor league system before he was the starting SS? Just wondering on that.......We seem to have a knack for developing and drafting pitchers....not a bad thing


Though here is a point I would like to make: It doesn't necessarily matter if all your players develop as long as you "use" prospects wisely....the Yankees were always good at this. Hype up a guy and then deal him off....We could always be better at that aspect of the game, but I think the system is pretty good overall

hose
01-26-2003, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by ScottyTheSoxFan
scotty ruffcorn, aaron myette, mike caruso (maybe the team's fault he was rushed), snopek, etc, etc.


How about Maggs? any team in baseball could of had him.

Mariano Soriano also eluded MLB scouts and was playing ball in Japan.

Sports Illustrated did a story years ago on the cost of drafting a player and bringing him along till he hit the majors. The "Pope" Don Pall was featured in the article and from what I remember it was well over a million dollars to develope a ML ballplayer. The percentage of all drafted players that have a significant career with their team is extremely low. Even the cream of the crop, the high picks don't pan out.

I would like to see the Sox put together a few draft years in a row like they did with McDowell, Ventura, Big Hurt, Fernandez.
Add in that they picked up Lance Johnson and Sammy Sosa in trades.....quite impressive.

WinningUgly!
01-26-2003, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by hose


I would like to see the Sox put together a few draft years in a row like they did with McDowell, Ventura, Big Hurt, Fernandez.
Add in that they picked up Lance Johnson and Sammy Sosa in trades.....quite impressive.

Get Larry Himes' number.

voodoochile
01-26-2003, 10:04 AM
Sox have so many young/entering-their-prime players that to judge the farm system on what is currently in it seems unfair.

Yeah, we can go on and on naming busts from the Sox minor league system, but EVERY SINGLE TEAM can do the same thing. That's because the talent level change between AAA and the majors is huge. No shame in having kids who didn't make it - it happens all the time to every scout/GM.

Still, the following list of young players is on the team because the Sox developed them or acquired them when they were still minor leaguers (or in the process of making the jump):

Maggs
Konerko
Crede
Rauch
Garland
Harris
Jimenez
Lee
Rowand
Buehrle

If the minors are a bit bare at the moment, it isn't because they have been unproductive, but because the Sox have called up all of the talent down there in the last few years. Every single one of these guys has shown at least flashes of success on the major league level - and some of them are already All Stars. If they all play to their talent level over the next few years, the Sox are pennant contenders. Yeah, it's a big if, but stranger things have happened...

jeremyb1
01-26-2003, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Carlos and crede? What have they proven? That theyre average? Buehrle was never considered a stud, hes a surprise.

all these posts completely lack any understanding of minor league players. the majority of them do not turn out. the fact that there are numerous sox prospects that haven't turned out means nothing. that applies to every team in baseball. the sox have almost an entire team populated with solid homegrown players. most teams do not have that because their minor league system isn't as good as ours. if you're merely upset that some prospects don't realize their potential that's an issue related to life or baseball not the white sox.

you refered to "can't miss" prospects on the team. i would consider that to be guys amongst the top prospects in the game. myette was amongst the top 30 prospects in baseball at most. snopek was never higher than 52. these guys weren't can't miss. garland, wells, rauch, borchard maybe. not chris snopek.

maurice
01-27-2003, 10:45 AM
A couple of quick points:

Originally posted by daver
Jim Thome doesn't have a lot of plate discipline,yet he is a perpetual all star.

Apples and oranges. I agree that strike outs aren't important, but Borchard has not shown anything resembling Thome's patience at the plate, particularly Thome's ability to take walks and wait for a pitch he can drive. I'd be quite pleased if Borchard reaches that level.

Originally posted by voodoochile
Still, the following list of young players is on the team because the Sox developed them or acquired them when they were still minor leaguers (or in the process of making the jump):

Maggs
Konerko
Crede
Rauch
Garland
Harris
Jimenez
Lee
Rowand
Buehrle

I don't mean to quibble, but Konerko and Jimenez both racked up a significant number of major league at bats with a couple of different clubs before the Sox traded for them. Granted, their performance was dissappointing before the Sox acquired them (relative to their minor league hype), but IMHO the jury is still out on whether the Sox will "develop" them into the star players they were supposed to become. I sure hope they do.

Hangar18
01-27-2003, 11:18 AM
Who is Micah Schnurstein?
Is he someone I should be watching in the minors?
(please say yes)

Iwritecode
01-27-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
the sox have almost an entire team populated with solid homegrown players. most teams do not have that because their minor league system isn't as good as ours.

If "almost an entire team" means about 10 players (and that's ignoring the "solid" part because I had to include Josh Paul) then you're right. But looking at what I predict to be the 2003 opening day 25 man roster, I only see about 10 - 11 homegrown players. Guys like Colon, Konerko, Valentin, Koch, Marte and even Garland you can't include.

fuzzy_patters
01-27-2003, 12:17 PM
If "almost an entire team" means about 10 players (and that's ignoring the "solid" part because I had to include Josh Paul) then you're right. But looking at what I predict to be the 2003 opening day 25 man roster, I only see about 10 - 11 homegrown players. Guys like Colon, Konerko, Valentin, Koch, Marte and even Garland you can't include.

If you are so picky as to not include Jon Garland because we traded for him when he was in A ball, then I guarantee you will not find many other teams with 10 homegrown players, and the teams that do have that many will not be very good.

Iwritecode
01-27-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
If you are so picky as to not include Jon Garland because we traded for him when he was in A ball, then I guarantee you will not find many other teams with 10 homegrown players, and the teams that do have that many will not be very good.

Have you looked at the Twins roster lately? I'm almost positive they have at least 10.

How many howgrown players do the A's and M's have? I honestly don't know, but I think they have quite a few also.

moochpuppy
01-27-2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Have you looked at the Twins roster lately? I'm almost positive they have at least 10.

How many howgrown players do the A's and M's have? I honestly don't know, but I think they have quite a few also.

If we're not counting traded players you can eliminate Guzman and Milton. They came over in a trade from the Yankees for Knoblach. The rest, I believe were drafted by the Twins:

Koskie
Rivas
Mienkievich (sp)
Jones
Hunter
Mohr
Cuddyer
Kielty
Piersenski (sp)
Radke
Mays
Santana
Lohse
Romero
Hawkins

soxruleEP
01-27-2003, 12:39 PM
Re: Borchard's status as top propect:

Borchard is a power-hitting switcher with good speed and arm playing the thrid most important defensive position. His status as a four-tool player alone makes hima great prospect.

Some of the best hitters of all-time--Ruth, Mantle, Bonds, for example--had many many strike-outs.

The concept of plate discipline is important. And the point raised about Thome taking walks and looking for a pitch he can drive is important, but let's remmeber that the pitches an individual hitter sees are influenced by the situation. Let Borchard hit with men on base and some behind him in the line-up besides alomar and clayton and you m ay see him get a pitch he can drive.

I still believe in the Earl Weaver theory of baseball: good pitching and a three-run homer. This is the most important baseball statistic I can think of (aside from wins): a high percewntage of times (can't recall the exact number--I will hunt it up) the winning team scores more runs in one inning than the losing team does in the whole game.

I alwaysa think of Gorman Thomas whenever somebody talks about a power hitter's average: he hit .220 and drove in 120. He didn't have a long career but he helped Milwuakee win their pennent and contend.

MarkEdward
01-27-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Who is Micah Schnurstein?
Is he someone I should be watching in the minors?
(please say yes)

He was the Sox seventh pick in the 2002 draft. Had an .885 OPS in 205 at bats for the Arizona League White Sox. Third baseman. He'll either start in Kannapolis or with a rookie league team.

RichH55
01-27-2003, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
He was the Sox seventh pick in the 2002 draft. Had an .885 OPS in 205 at bats for the Arizona League White Sox. Third baseman. He'll either start in Kannapolis or with a rookie league team.

But Yes, he is someone to watch:)

MisterB
01-27-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by moochpuppy
If we're not counting traded players you can eliminate Guzman and Milton. They came over in a trade from the Yankees for Knoblach. The rest, I believe were drafted by the Twins:

Koskie
Rivas
Mienkievich (sp)
Jones
Hunter
Mohr
Cuddyer
Kielty
Piersenski (sp)
Radke
Mays
Santana
Lohse
Romero
Hawkins

Nix 4 from that list:
Mohr (Indians)
Mays (Mariners)
Santana (Astros)
Lohse (Flubs)

MRKARNO
01-27-2003, 07:32 PM
"11. Hee Seop Choi, 1B, Chicago (N)
All-or-nothing slugger with prodigious power. Won't add much else "
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHA

RichH55
01-28-2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
"11. Hee Seop Choi, 1B, Chicago (N)
All-or-nothing slugger with prodigious power. Won't add much else "
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHA

Overheeyped seop choi......... .270 22 82 will near his career year