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Mediocrity
01-22-2003, 01:01 PM
Any guesses to what our batting order will be on opening day?

A second question. Does Jerry Manuel have an aversion to platooning hitters based on L/R matchups?

It doesn't seem like he does that very often.

M

gogosoxgogo
01-22-2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Mediocrity
Any guesses to what our batting order will be on opening day?

A second question. Does Jerry Manuel have an aversion to platooning hitters based on L/R matchups?

It doesn't seem like he does that very often.

M

Hey welcome aboard! I imagine it would look something like this:

Jimenez
Lee
Thomas
Ordonez
Konerko
Crede
Valentin
Olivo
Rowand

Obviously, a few of those will switch around as we see who performs better (ie. Crede and Valentin, Olivo and Rowand). No, it doesn't seem like Manuel adjusts much to L/R matchups, but we don't have the greatest bench in the world, so I don't mind that.

moochpuppy
01-22-2003, 01:22 PM
Here's my guess:

2B Jimenez / Harris
SS Valentin
DH Thomas
RF Ordonez
1B Konerko
LF Lee
3B Crede
CF Harris / Rowand
C Olivo

A lot depends on how Rowand comes back from his offseason injury and the continued development of Jimenez and Harris. Who knows, Borchard may have a blow out spring to throw a wrench into this but I doubt they start him yet.

gosox41
01-22-2003, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by Mediocrity
Any guesses to what our batting order will be on opening day?

A second question. Does Jerry Manuel have an aversion to platooning hitters based on L/R matchups?

It doesn't seem like he does that very often.

M

This would be my batting order of I were Manuel:

Jiminez
Rowand
Thomas
Ordonez
Konerko
Lee
Valentin
Crede
Olivo/Alomar Jr.


If Frank slumps like most of last season I'd have no problem movign Lee up to the 3 spot as he hit well there last season and may finally be due for a breakout season. I think Rowand can benefit the most from hitting second because he'll see more heat (especially if Frank is hitting). If not him I'd go with Valentin.

Bob

jeremyb1
01-22-2003, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by moochpuppy
Here's my guess:

2B Jimenez / Harris
SS Valentin
DH Thomas
RF Ordonez
1B Konerko
LF Lee
3B Crede
CF Harris / Rowand
C Olivo

A lot depends on how Rowand comes back from his offseason injury and the continued development of Jimenez and Harris. Who knows, Borchard may have a blow out spring to throw a wrench into this but I doubt they start him yet.

yeah, that's what i'd expect (and more or less hope for too) on opening day.

hold2dibber
01-22-2003, 02:46 PM
Against righties:

Jimenez 2B
Valentin SS
Thomas DH
Ordonez RF
Konkerko 1B
Lee LF
Crede 3B
Rowand CF
Olivo/Alomar C

Against lefties:

Jimenez SS
Lee LF
Thomas DH
Ordonez RF
Konerko 1B
Crede 3B
Graffinino 2B
Rowand CF
Olivo/Alomar C

Huisj
01-22-2003, 03:20 PM
i doubt we'll see lee hitting second. even with his new found patience to draw a walk or two, he won't be hitting second. it'll be valentin.

FarmerAndy
01-22-2003, 04:32 PM
I can't believe so many people have Valentin so far back in the lineup. In my opinion he belongs in the #2 spot, and nowhere else.

Hullett_Fan
01-22-2003, 05:00 PM
I can't believe so many people have Valentin so far back in the lineup. In my opinion he belongs in the #2 spot, and nowhere else.


Agree. And I'd break up Konerko and Lee in the lineup...I think Crede handles the bat better than Lee.


My lineup:

CF -- Beltran :D:
SS - Valentin
DH - Thomas
RF - Ordonez
1B - Konerko
3B - Crede
RF - Lee
C - Olivo
2B - Jimenez

hold2dibber
01-22-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy
I can't believe so many people have Valentin so far back in the lineup. In my opinion he belongs in the #2 spot, and nowhere else.

Even against lefties? He's horrid against lefties. I'd sit him, or, if he does start, he definitely should be hitting no higher than 7th.

hold2dibber
01-22-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Huisj
i doubt we'll see lee hitting second. even with his new found patience to draw a walk or two, he won't be hitting second. it'll be valentin.

I doubt he will, but I think it would make sense to put him up there. Someone around here (MarkEdward maybe?) made a great case for hitting Lee second a few months ago.

HawkDJ
01-22-2003, 05:18 PM
Jiminez
Rowand
Ordonez
Konerko
Thomas
Lee
Crede
Valentin
Olivo/Alomar

maurice
01-22-2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I doubt he will, but I think it would make sense to put him up there.

I've been pushing for Lee to bat second for some time and posted some pretty lengthy diatribes to that effect. Some folks are convinced that Valentin's OBP is irrelevant. Unfortunately, I expect that JM is in that camp, since he and I rarely are on the same page. :D:

Huisj
01-22-2003, 06:13 PM
yeah, i'm not saying it would be terrible to hit lee second, but i doubt we'll see manual do it. or if he does, it'll just be a daily tinker move and will only last one day. but it'd kind of be like when the sox batted ventura 2nd for part of a year. that was fairly interesting.

jeremyb1
01-23-2003, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by maurice
I've been pushing for Lee to bat second for some time and posted some pretty lengthy diatribes to that effect. Some folks are convinced that Valentin's OBP is irrelevant. Unfortunately, I expect that JM is in that camp, since he and I rarely are on the same page. :D:

yeah. this conversation has been had a number of times. i think obp percentage is important in the two hole however its not as important as it is in the leadoff spot. furthermore, its not so important that you should move a power hitter to the second spot in the lineup just because he draws walks, allowing him to get on base at a pretty good clip. i just view carlos as too good of a power hitter to bat in the third spot in the lineup. the problem is that players such as valentin, crede, and rowand don't walk enough. however, i don't think the solution is to place a middle of the lineup hitter such as carlos in the two spot.

maurice
01-23-2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
its not so important that you should move a power hitter to the second spot in the lineup just because he draws walks, allowing him to get on base at a pretty good clip.

I agree to a certain extent. I'd never bat Jason Giambi first, despite his stellar OBP (though his brother has batted leadoff). However, the placement of most players depends on who else is in the lineup with them. Player A might lead off for team 1, bat third for team 2, or bat five for team 3. Some examples include Wade Boggs, Paul Molitor, Bernie Williams, and a young Barry Bonds.

A recent example is Soriano. He bats leadoff for the Yanks but would be a middle of the order hitter on a team with less overall power.

voodoochile
01-23-2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by maurice
I agree to a certain extent. I'd never bat Jason Giambi first, despite his stellar OBP (though his brother has batted leadoff). However, the placement of most players depends on who else is in the lineup with them. Player A might lead off for team 1, bat third for team 2, or bat five for team 3. Some examples include Wade Boggs, Paul Molitor, Bernie Williams, and a young Barry Bonds.

A recent example is Soriano. He bats leadoff for the Yanks but would be a middle of the order hitter on a team with less overall power.

Carlton Fisk did a great job in the second slot for the Sox...

I see nothing wrong with Lee batting right in front of Frank or Maggs (whoever ends up third). If it doesn't work out, they can always switch for a better pure contact hitter (Manos) to take advantage of the higher number of fastballs.

soxruleEP
01-24-2003, 01:36 PM
The problem is we have no true #2 hitter--just look at last season and how many times Rowand batted 2nd. That is the worst possible scenario I can imagine.

Here's what I think we'll see on Opening Day--not neccessarily what I'd like.

Jimenez
Valentine
Thomas
Ordonez
Konerko
Lee
Crede
Alomar
Rowand

I sure would like to see another CF (Like Borchardt, even if he is going to strike out 150 times)

maurice
01-24-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by soxruleEP
The problem is we have no true #2 hitter

Well, Jimenez is a true #2, but he's busy batting leadoff. We'll just have to make do until Webster becomes ready (hopefully) in a couple of years. Since "making do" resulted in the #3 offensive last year, I'm not too concerned.

just look at last season and how many times Rowand batted 2nd. That is the worst possible scenario I can imagine.

:?:

Crash batted second quite a few times in 2002 (99 ABs) and with positive results (.323 AVE / .380 OBP).

To pick a random example for comparison, Manos posted only .258 / .333 in a similar number of at-bats in the two slot in 2002 (a bit higher than his .249 / .311 overall numbers).

soxruleEP
01-28-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Well, Jimenez is a true #2, but he's busy batting leadoff. We'll just have to make do until Webster becomes ready (hopefully) in a couple of years. Since "making do" resulted in the #3 offensive last year, I'm not too concerned.



:?:

Crash batted second quite a few times in 2002 (99 ABs) and with positive results (.323 AVE / .380 OBP).

To pick a random example for comparison, Manos posted only .258 / .333 in a similar number of at-bats in the two slot in 2002 (a bit higher than his .249 / .311 overall numbers).

Maurice--I bow to your stats! Those 99 atbats are a fairly percentage of his season and do indicate that he performed better in that slot.

You are also correct that Jimenz woul dbe a good #2 man.

progers0826
01-28-2003, 04:08 PM
If Lee walks more often than he strikes out (as in the second half of 2002), I think he could be a great No. 2 hitter. What's wrong w/Jimenez-Lee-Thomas-Ordonez-Valentin-Konerko for the top six. Jose wants to be a run-producer, so put him in a run-producer's spot. Nothing against Konerko but Valentin 5 breaks up all those right-handed hitters. Lee might completely bust out with Thomas and Ordonez protecting him.

FarmerAndy
01-28-2003, 04:26 PM
On top of being able to get on base, the guys in the top two spots of the order should be decent base-runners. Lee is one of the worst base-runners on the team. Valentin is smart and aggresive when he's on base.

Overall numbers aside, Valentin isn't a rally killer. If your #8 and #9 get on base, it's important to have a #1 and #2 who can keep it going and get the heart of the order up to the plate. Valentin has always been good in this regard. When we have a rally going, he makes sure the big guy get's to the plate. I think Valentin does more in the #2 spot than the overall numbers show. He gets it done when you really need him to.