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gogosoxgogo
01-22-2003, 11:46 AM
Per ESPN Radio 1000, Leiber signed a 2 year deal with the Yanks for 4 million. Very good deal if you ask me. I'd sign him to 4 million for the 2004 season alone, but he will be a major contribution during the stretch and postseason when he comes back. Another perfect pickup for the Sox which we let get away...

CHISOXFAN13
01-22-2003, 12:13 PM
Yeah since we've had such an awful offseason. Please.

Only some teams can afford to pay a guy who might not pitch until August, and we aren't one of them.

I'd rather make an effort to sign someone who can pitch in April.

kermittheefrog
01-22-2003, 12:14 PM
How the hell is giving a guy who could potentially not pitch this year and will be recovering from an injury when he does pitch worth 4 million dollars over those two years? Maybe if he's a hall of famer when he's healthy but it's Jon Lieber we are talking about.

gogosoxgogo
01-22-2003, 12:18 PM
You guys forget that this is a guy who won 20 games for the CUBS two years ago. He's a pretty decent pitcher who would be a major contributor in the post season and next year. Think of the 4 million as mostly going to the 2004 season and this is not a bad deal.

hold2dibber
01-22-2003, 12:18 PM
Would I like to have Lieber lined up for '04? Sure. But that doesn't mean it would have made sense for the Sox to sign him. First, I think it is HIGHLY unlikely that he will be of much help to anyone this year. Even if he is healthy by August (as reported), he'll be rusty and won't have all of his arm strength back. (See Parque, Jim and Rauch, Jon for recent examples). He should be back to full strength by '04, but he's not a spring chicken and there's no guarantee he'll be as good as he was a few years back. The Sox would be better served spending their $ on guys who can help now.

gogosoxgogo
01-22-2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Would I like to have Lieber lined up for '04? Sure. But that doesn't mean it would have made sense for the Sox to sign him. First, I think it is HIGHLY unlikely that he will be of much help to anyone this year. Even if he is healthy by August (as reported), he'll be rusty and won't have all of his arm strength back. (See Parque, Jim and Rauch, Jon for recent examples). He should be back to full strength by '04, but he's not a spring chicken and there's no guarantee he'll be as good as he was a few years back. The Sox would be better served spending their $ on guys who can help now.

So then he has two more months to get in shape for the post season when he will have the most impact. It's not like he's being rushed back at the beginning of the season. He'll have over a year of down time by the time August/September rolls around. If the Sox spend their money on others, it will cost them more, and they will most likely leave after this year. With Leiber, we'd have him for 2 years so he could replace Colon when he leaves.

kermittheefrog
01-22-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
So then he has two more months to get in shape for the post season when he will have the most impact. It's not like he's being rushed back at the beginning of the season. He'll have over a year of down time by the time August/September rolls around. If the Sox spend their money on others, it will cost them more, and they will most likely leave after this year. With Leiber, we'd have him for 2 years so he could replace Colon when he leaves.

So you'd want to throw him untested into the postseason? Or have him get into shape during a pennant race? This makes about as much as much sense as trading away Foulke.

SoxxoS
01-22-2003, 12:39 PM
<<<Even if he is healthy by August (as reported), he'll be rusty and won't have all of his arm strength back. (See Parque, Jim and Rauch, Jon for recent examples). >>>

Dont forget me...


:JB

gogosoxgogo
01-22-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
So you'd want to throw him untested into the postseason? Or have him get into shape during a pennant race? This makes about as much as much sense as trading away Foulke.

You'd rather throw Rauch into the post season? I'd be very comfortable with Colon, Buehrle, Leiber, Garland, Wright going into the post season. And chances are, we won't need all 5 starters so one will go into the bullpen. I'd be thrilled with that rotation facing any other rotation in the majors. Plus, the impact Leiber would give us in 2004 is more than worth it. For the money we would have given him, I think it more than makes up for it. $4 million over 2 years.

Todd Ritchie earned over 3 and a half million in one year! Even with Leiber injured, I'd be much more relaxed with Leiber than Ritchie. Say Leiber would have earned 500k this year and then 3 and a half million next year. That's nothing this year as an insurance going into the post season. And if he can perform better than Ritchie in 2004 (gee, I wonder if he can), then he's worth it in that year.

kermittheefrog
01-22-2003, 12:57 PM
:whoflungpoo

Brian26
01-22-2003, 12:58 PM
You're missing the point, Gogo.

It's a gamble with 4 million dollars that the White Sox can't afford to lose.

The Yankees have lots more money that the Sox, so they can afford to make this gamble. The Sox don't have the extra revenue to risk.

If it was a sure thing Leiber would be back to full strength, it would be worth the money. There's not even a guarantee he will return from his injury though.

gogosoxgogo
01-22-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
You're missing the point, Gogo.

It's a gamble with 4 million dollars that the White Sox can't afford to lose.

The Yankees have lots more money that the Sox, so they can afford to make this gamble. The Sox don't have the extra revenue to risk.

If it was a sure thing Leiber would be back to full strength, it would be worth the money. There's not even a guarantee he will return from his injury though.

It's 4 million over 2 years! Yes, it's a gamble, but there are a whole lot of healthy pitchers that are even more of a gamble IMO. Todd Ritchie lost 15 games and yet we gave him 3 and half million. I agree with you all that he's a gamble, but I think it's worth the risk.

soxruleEP
01-22-2003, 01:04 PM
And this counts against their salary "cap" for income disbursement.

And it keeps it him out of Boston. They'd rather spend the moneyt o do that than take a chance.

gogosoxgogo
01-22-2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by soxruleEP
And this counts against their salary "cap" for income disbursement.

And it keeps it him out of Boston. They'd rather spend the moneyt o do that than take a chance.

I think it's more so because of the fact they only have 2 starting pitchers signed beyond this year. This just gives the Yanks the reload they'll need for the 2004 season.

delben91
01-22-2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
:whoflungpoo

I must concur.

But if we let Lieber get up to speed in the pennant race, and had Mark Dalesandro catch his starts...man, that'd be sweet.

:cool:

Hullett_Fan
01-22-2003, 01:40 PM
I'd sign him to 4 million for the 2004 season alone, but he will be a major contribution during the stretch and postseason when he comes back.


No thanks on Lieber. I have a feeling Garland and Wright (and maybe Rauch) will be able to pitch at his level for the 2004 season.

As for this year I'd rather work a mid-season deal for a guy that has been healthy all year.

FarmerAndy
01-22-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Even if he is healthy by August (as reported), he'll be rusty and won't have all of his arm strength back. (See Parque, Jim and Rauch, Jon for recent examples).

I understand your point, but those aren't good comparisons. Jon Rauch had no major league experience before his surgery, and Parque was never as good as Leiber to begin with.

jeremyb1
01-22-2003, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
You'd rather throw Rauch into the post season? I'd be very comfortable with Colon, Buehrle, Leiber, Garland, Wright going into the post season. And chances are, we won't need all 5 starters so one will go into the bullpen. I'd be thrilled with that rotation facing any other rotation in the majors. Plus, the impact Leiber would give us in 2004 is more than worth it. For the money we would have given him, I think it more than makes up for it. $4 million over 2 years.

you said it yourself. why would rauch, our number five starter be starting games in the playoffs? we could go three starters (buehrle, colon, garland) and pitch guys on three days rest or go four starters and throw wright (assuming he's our fourth best starter) into the equation.

additionally, i think rauch probably will be pitching better than lieber at the end of next season. pitchers coming back from tommy john surgery do not have a great record coming out of the gate. it takes more than merely 6 or 8 starts for them to return to normal, the also ussually require an entire offseason.

bc2k
01-22-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by soxruleEP
And it keeps it him out of Boston. They'd rather spend the moneyt o do that than take a chance.

If I were the Red Sox, I'd start making public interest in some garbage players to try to get the Yankees to pick them up. Use Gammons as the mouth piece, "Today the Red Sox are close to signing the 'defensive specialist' Royce Clayton to replace Nomar late in ballgames. They are also in preliminary talks with 'potential ace' Jamie Navarro to follow Lowe and Martinez."

OK, that's a little extreme, but maybe Boston can use the power of the press to create false interest in some mediocre player in hopes the Yankees would sign him and waste a roster spot.

hold2dibber
01-22-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy
I understand your point, but those aren't good comparisons. Jon Rauch had no major league experience before his surgery, and Parque was never as good as Leiber to begin with.

Actually, I don't think you understand my point. My point is that Lieber will not be at full strength when he comes back. It will take him probably 20 starts (with an offseason in the middle) before he is an effective, reliable pitcher again (if ever).

hold2dibber
01-22-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by delben91
I must concur.

But if we let Lieber get up to speed in the pennant race, and had Mark Dalesandro catch his starts...man, that'd be sweet.

:cool:

Hey! No Dalesandro dissing allowed - he's my hero! :smile:

kermittheefrog
01-22-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Actually, I don't think you understand my point. My point is that Lieber will not be at full strength when he comes back. It will take him probably 20 starts (with an offseason in the middle) before he is an effective, reliable pitcher again (if ever).

Cleary you don't understand his point that Leiber is a minor deity.

voodoochile
01-22-2003, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
It's 4 million over 2 years!

You said that like it's peanuts. Me, I'm thinking "IT'S 4-MILLION FREAKING DOLLARS!" It is NOT a small amount of money. Would you rather have Leiber for the last month of the season and post-season (maybe) or see the money spent to keep Buehrle long term or invested in a player who will contribute every day for the whole year?

Huisj
01-22-2003, 03:26 PM
no way you want to sign a guy with the intent relying on him pitching well during a comeback during a pennant race. that's just ridiculous. and then to count on him in the playoffs too. :?: :?: :?:

FarmerAndy
01-22-2003, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Actually, I don't think you understand my point. My point is that Lieber will not be at full strength when he comes back. It will take him probably 20 starts (with an offseason in the middle) before he is an effective, reliable pitcher again (if ever).

ACTUALLY, I do understand your point, and it makes sense. My point was simply that Rauch and Parque are bad comparisons.

FarmerAndy
01-22-2003, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Cleary you don't understand his point that Leiber is a minor deity.

I never said anything that suggests I am in favor of signing Lieber.