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WinningUgly!
01-21-2003, 10:44 PM
Here's my ranking of the remaining available unsigned free agents...

Slim pickins...
1) Rodriguez, Ivan
2) Cruz, Jose
3) Lieber, Jon
4) Hernandez, Roberto
5) Suppan, Jeff
6) Finley, Chuck
7) Rogers, Kenny
8) Lloyd, Graeme
9) Lofton, Kenny
10) Helling, Rick
11) Tavarez, Julian
12) Bottalico, Ricky

Jerry_Manuel
01-21-2003, 10:45 PM
Well, atleast you didn't have Baldwin, James on the list. :smile:

Daver
01-21-2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Here's my ranking of the remaining available unsigned free agents...

Slim pickins...
1) Rodriguez, Ivan
2) Cruz, Jose
3) Lieber, Jon
4) Hernandez, Roberto
5) Suppan, Jeff
6) Finley, Chuck
7) Rogers, Kenny
8) Lloyd, Graeme
9) Lofton, Kenny
10) Helling, Rick
11) Tavarez, Julian
12) Bottalico, Ricky

If the Sox sign Ivan Rodriguez you can kiss any chance of the Sox making playoffs in 2003 goodbye.

WinningUgly!
01-21-2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Well, atleast you didn't have Baldwin, James on the list. :smile:

He's in at #13 (tied with about 50 others)

Jerry_Manuel
01-21-2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by daver
If the Sox sign Ivan Rodriguez you can kiss any chance of the Sox making playoffs in 2003 goodbye.

I'm leaning toward saying that even if they don't sign him.

I know what you're saying though. Calling fastballs' to help him throw out runners doesn't help the team.

Jerry_Manuel
01-21-2003, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
He's in at #13 (tied with about 50 others)

Ouch. The fact that he is in the top 15 shows how slim the pickins are.

RKMeibalane
01-21-2003, 10:53 PM
I would have been interested in Ivan Rodriguez...

...if the Sox had not signed Sandy Alomar.

...if he were willing to sign a one-year deal.

...if he were not an injury risk.

I also would have liked Royce Clayton...

...if he hadn't sucked so bad.

gogosoxgogo
01-21-2003, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
1) Rodriguez, Ivan
No. He will screw up our pitchers. And he'll do it for way too much money.

Originally posted by WinningUgly!
2) Cruz, Jose
Maybe. His plate discipline is frightening, but his power, speed, and switch hitting are inviting. Maybe until Borchard arrives he could provide a suitable replacement.

Originally posted by WinningUgly!
3) Lieber, Jon
I think it's pretty much given that he's going to be signed by the Yanks in the next few days. Otherwise he would be great. I've expressed my feelings on him in the thread 'BoSox interested in Leiber'.

Originally posted by WinningUgly!
4) Hernandez, Roberto
I'll pass. He's past his prime and we have better options in house as well as better options on the market.

Originally posted by WinningUgly!
5) Suppan, Jeff
I'll pass on him as well. He's a big question mark as to whether he could win 15 games or lose 15 games. I'd rather go with Rauch.

Originally posted by WinningUgly!
6) Finley, Chuck
He wouldn't be a bad pickup, but it won't happen.

Originally posted by WinningUgly!
7) Rogers, Kenny
I'd probably take him over Finley. Again, I don't think it's going to take place.

Originally posted by WinningUgly!
8) Lloyd, Graeme
Eww. No. Didn't have it last year and I think we have enough of the setup men type this year to go without adding a major question mark.

Originally posted by WinningUgly!
9) Lofton, Kenny
A platoon of him and Rowand until Borchard arrives wouldn't be too bad of an idea. A one year deal for cheap would be more than enough.

Originally posted by WinningUgly!
10) Helling, Rick
No thanks. Rauch will be much more effective. Helling will just eat up Rauch's starts with probably worse results.

Originally posted by WinningUgly!
11) Tavarez, Julian
Hell no. How can you suggest him. Yuck.

Originally posted by WinningUgly!
12) Bottalico, Ricky
We don't need more setup men. See my comments on Graeme.

WinningUgly!
01-21-2003, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by daver
If the Sox sign Ivan Rodriguez you can kiss any chance of the Sox making playoffs in 2003 goodbye.


How much did his bitterness toward the Rangers (for not offering him a big deal & throwing a truckload of money at A-Rod) have to do with his selfishness behind the plate. I think this, along with the Rangers not playing in a meaningful game for the past few years, has a lot to do with I-Rod putting down the ole number one in every running situation. It doesn't matter anyway, he's not coming here. :D:

gogosoxgogo
01-21-2003, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
How much did his bitterness toward the Rangers (for not offering him a big deal & throwing a truckload of money at A-Rod) have to do with his selfishness behind the plate. I think this, along with the Rangers not playing in a meaningful game for the past few years, has a lot to do with I-Rod putting down the ole number one in every running situation. It doesn't matter anyway, he's not coming here. :D:

Somehow I doubt that. And for 8 million dollars, that's not exactly a risk we can be taking as to whether or not he'll actually work WITH pitchers.

SoxRulecubsdrool
01-21-2003, 11:04 PM
I just wonder why cub fans treat IROD as if it was the holy grail? He's not old enough for the cubs to sign him is he?
:gulp:

Daver
01-21-2003, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
How much did his bitterness toward the Rangers (for not offering him a big deal & throwing a truckload of money at A-Rod) have to do with his selfishness behind the plate. I think this, along with the Rangers not playing in a meaningful game for the past few years, has a lot to do with I-Rod putting down the ole number one in every running situation. It doesn't matter anyway, he's not coming here. :D:

I Rod's pitch calling dates back to when Kevin Brown was still in a Rangers uni,this is nothing new.He has a long history of defying the pitching coach to increase his numbers.

Don Cooper OTH,would rather work through his catcher as opposed to going out to the mound,one of the reasons I think Sandy was re-signed,Sandy works with pitchers well and can relay what the pitching coach is looking for.

duke of dorwood
01-21-2003, 11:21 PM
I still do not see where we can carry 3 catchers. I bet Alomar catches all the Colon starts-

There's room for someone-hopefully a left handed hitter.

Soxboyrob
01-21-2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Here's my ranking of the remaining available unsigned free agents...

7) Rogers, Kenny


I don't see why Kenny wouldn't be in your top two or three. The guy had great numbers across the board last year. Great ERA, tons of innings, good record. If he can come close to last year's numbers, then he's a solid number 2, after our 1 and 1A of Colon and Buehrle.

Any rumors out there about who's talking to him?

Lip Man 1
01-21-2003, 11:55 PM
Just a note on Helling. 15 times last year he gave up two earned runs or less in starts.

Are you going to tell me Rauch is going to match that?

I'd go after him or Suppan, Suppan has thrown 200 or more innings the past four years. THAT kind of production out of the back end of the rotation can ALWAYS be used!

I'd also take a look at Botallico or Hernandez. The Sox still need another middle guy.

Obviously KW thinks so as well based on his comments to Phil Arvia of the Southtown yesterday.

Lip

gogosoxgogo
01-21-2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Just a note on Helling. 15 times last year he gave up two earned runs or less in starts.

Are you going to tell me Rauch is going to match that?

I'd go after him or Suppan, Suppan has thrown 200 or more innings the past four years. THAT kind of production out of the back end of the rotation can ALWAYS be used!

I'd also take a look at Botallico or Hernandez. The Sox still need another middle guy.

Obviously KW thinks so as well based on his comments to Phil Arvia of the Southtown yesterday.

Lip

Out of the remaining free agents, I'd go with Rogers. How many innings a guy pitched is overrated. Yeah, Suppan pitched over 200 innings, but he gave up 5 and a half runs per game in the process. I want the guy who can get us the most amount of wins, because ultimately, that's the only stat that matters.

A.T. Money
01-22-2003, 12:29 AM
Helling is brutal. It seems like he gets rocked in pretty much every outing.

Twins8791
01-22-2003, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!

Slim pickins...

6) Finley, Chuck


Slim Pickens is dead. I did like him in Blazing Saddles.

Don't get Chuck Finley! He kills the Twins! Please! I mean it!!

SoxRulecubsdrool
01-22-2003, 12:43 AM
:KW
If only you could get inside my mind. I am driving all of you nuts!


I am out of money or did JR give me some more?

Huisj
01-22-2003, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by Twins8791
Slim Pickens is dead. I did like him in Blazing Saddles.

Don't get Chuck Finley! He kills the Twins! Please! I mean it!!

:?: did i miss something?

:KW
"Now, now, we don't want to make the division too unfair."

:reinsy
"Now you're talking. If we sign him and win, then we couldn't complain about the fans. And we'd have to actually try to keep winning. We need a competitive balance-we won the division a few years ago, it's someone else's turn still."

:jerry
"Plus if you sign another guy who has to start, that limits my tinkering, er, I mean managerial influence."

hold2dibber
01-22-2003, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Twins8791
Slim Pickens is dead. I did like him in Blazing Saddles.

Don't get Chuck Finley! He kills the Twins! Please! I mean it!!

I don't think Finley will return to the midwest - he has small kids and, obviously, serious family issues, so I'm guessing he'll want to stick close to home in So. Cal. But with that said, there is something to be said for the Sox picking up a left handed starter. As a general matter, I am against taking starts away from Rauch in favor or an overpriced, mediocre veteran. However, the Twins are VERY susceptible to left handed pitching. I don't remember the exact stats, but I'm pretty sure they were substantially under .500 against lefties last year. So if the Sox were to go out and get another starter (though I don't think they will and don't think they should) it might make more sense to pursue a lefty (particularly in light of the fact that the Twins have spanked the Sox silly for the last few years in head-to-head match-ups).

hold2dibber
01-22-2003, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Just a note on Helling. 15 times last year he gave up two earned runs or less in starts.

Are you going to tell me Rauch is going to match that?


This stat surprised me, so I took a closer look at Helling's '02 season and he really was pretty good. He had a lot of quality starts, as you indicate, although he got lambasted a decent number of times also. He finished the year with a 4.51 ERA, pitching in the NL (no DH). His last year in the AL ('01), his ERA was 5.18. For his career, he has usually been about 4.50 or slightly above. I think if he returned to the AL in '03 he would post an ERA somewhere between the two - i.e., in the 4.75 or 4.80 range. And I believe Rauch will put up similar numbers in '03. I see Rauch (assuming he's healthy) as being more developed than Wright was going into last year, so my prediction for Rauch would be about a 4.80 or 4.90 ERA. Because I think they would have similar success, I'd rather give the starts to Rauch, as he's much more likely (assuming he's healthy) to help the Sox in '04 and just as likely to help them in '03.

maurice
01-22-2003, 11:10 AM
I think the Sox would be willing to sign Finley (ex-toon factor) or Helling (who they flirted with last season) if either would agree to a cheapo one-year deal.

Originally posted by hold2dibber
As a general matter, I am against taking starts away from Rauch in favor or an overpriced, mediocre veteran.

I'm sure many on this board would agree, but KW has a history of bringing in mediocre vets to take innings/at-bats away from talented prospects. Now that I think of it, the Bulls do the same thing. Maybe it's Reinsy's MO.

hold2dibber
01-22-2003, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by maurice
I think the Sox would be willing to sign Finley (ex-toon factor) or Helling (who they flirted with last season) if either would agree to a cheapo one-year deal.



I'm sure many on this board would agree, but KW has a history of bringing in mediocre vets to take innings/at-bats away from talented prospects. Now that I think of it, the Bulls do the same thing. Maybe it's Reinsy's MO.

My guess, in this market, is that both of these guys will have a hard time getting anything beyond a one year deal. Neither will cost a fortune, but I don't think they'll be extremely cheap either - probably $2 or $3 million. I'm guessing Finley lands in Seattle and Helling lands in Texas.