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View Full Version : Gordon Signing is Official


duke of dorwood
01-20-2003, 04:22 PM
Per ESPN 1000 sports update.

:jerry

Another Tinker Toy for me

RKMeibalane
01-20-2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood


:jerry

Another Tinker Toy for me

Indeed. I'm sure Manuel will think of several ways to use Gordon.

CHISOXFAN13
01-20-2003, 04:45 PM
Here's hoping he stays healthy. His numbers in late August and September were outstanding.

KonerkoPower14
01-20-2003, 05:21 PM
Our Pitching Staff is going to be hard to beat IMO.

SP Buehrle
SP Colon
SP Garland
SP Wright
SP Rauch/Stewart

Im hoping our big 2 can give us 7-8 each time out(I know there are bad days).Garland should and could give us at least 6 or 7 innings anything more is damn good.Wright and Rauch I'm asking for 5, 6, or even 7 is good.Giving our bullpen rest and If there is a bad day in which they can not pitch more than 5 give it to Glover or Ginter.

Lefty Specialist-Wunsch
Long Relief-Glover/Ginter
MR-Marte
MR-Gordon
MR-Loser of 5 spot in rotation/FA
CL-Koch


Hopefully Gordon is healthy and can dominate ahead of Koch.Two hard throwing righties mix it in with Marte,I'm thinking were allright.Im giving us a 12 Man Staff,I'm doing this just in case our bullpen is tired with the inexperience of Rauch and Wright has some bad games when he is off.

duke of dorwood
01-20-2003, 05:22 PM
Excellent numbers on a contending team.

gosox3072
01-20-2003, 07:10 PM
Good job kenny ur on a roll now!!!!!!

GOSOX

Lip Man 1
01-20-2003, 08:41 PM
Why stop now? Let's shore up the #5 starter hole and long relief. Guys like Suppan and Hernandez are still out there.

Lip

HawkDJ
01-20-2003, 08:54 PM
The contract is worth $1.4 million and has an extra $500,000 in performance bonuses.

THE_HOOTER
01-20-2003, 09:07 PM
I think he is a great signing but it's a fact he won't stay healthy for the season-he hasn't since his surgery.

We need another dependable bullpen guy-hopefully we'll find him in house.

Wunsch, Ginter are not dpendable. I think Wunsch is lucky he has a job.

He seems to still be living off of his success in 2000.

Daver
01-20-2003, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
I think he is a great signing but it's a fact he won't stay healthy for the season-he hasn't since his surgery.

We need another dependable bullpen guy-hopefully we'll find him in house.

Wunsch, Ginter are not dpendable. I think Wunsch is lucky he has a job.

He seems to still be living off of his success in 2000.

I can almost see your point on Wunsch,but how is Ginter undependable?

And how can you not mention Mike Porzio as undependable?

FanOf14
01-20-2003, 10:13 PM
I have to agree that Ginter was somewhat unreliable. He always cracked if there was pressure on him. If he came in and the game was out of hand one way or another, he was superb, but if there was any kind of pressure, he collapsed.

gogosoxgogo
01-20-2003, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by FanOf14
I have to agree that Ginter was somewhat unreliable. He always cracked if there was pressure on him. If he came in and the game was out of hand one way or another, he was superb, but if there was any kind of pressure, he collapsed.

which is why Ginter should be used in long relief. He would not be an effective setup man, but when our starter goes out early or we're behind by a bunch of runs, Ginter has the the stamina to last it out and not give up many runs to give us a chance to come back. He takes over Rocky Biddle's spot nicely IMO.

And if Wuncsh is used only against lefties, he's very effective. He just can't get it done against the righties.

THE_HOOTER
01-20-2003, 11:57 PM
Anybody remember the playoffs in 2000 when Wunsch threw that bunt or grounder(i cant remember) and his reaction?

This guy is really nice, and I like him. But he had a one year run and now the league knows his arm angle.

He has very tiny berries, and if you look at his batter to batter stats he was bad against righties and lefties.

Hell, I remember him coming in to face a lefty, and he would walk him. Manuel leaves him in and BOOM, three run homer.

He should not be depended upon to produce-he is soft.

Porzio I dont know about-what I do know I dont like.

Lets hope one these young guys performs like Buerhle or Barcelo in 2000.

Our bullpen is weaker than last year. Foulke had better stats, and Osuna is more reliable than Gordon. Of course if Gordon stays healthy he is capable of being better than anyone in the pen.

A big if.

Did I mention that our manager is brutal at handling a bullpen too? Throw Gordon in the mix, and it makes Manuel feel like he can make more calls to the pen.

I wonder how andy the clown feels? Ah, he prolly doesnt care.

jeremyb1
01-21-2003, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
Anybody remember the playoffs in 2000 when Wunsch threw that bunt or grounder(i cant remember) and his reaction?

This guy is really nice, and I like him. But he had a one year run and now the league knows his arm angle.

that argument would be more convincing if he hadn't had such good success last year for a guy coming off of surgery. at what point was he getting hit hard? you're not talking about '01 when he was injured are you?

jeremyb1
01-21-2003, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by KonerkoPower14
Our Pitching Staff is going to be hard to beat IMO.

SP Buehrle
SP Colon
SP Garland
SP Wright
SP Rauch/Stewart

Im hoping our big 2 can give us 7-8 each time out(I know there are bad days).Garland should and could give us at least 6 or 7 innings anything more is damn good.Wright and Rauch I'm asking for 5, 6, or even 7 is good.Giving our bullpen rest and If there is a bad day in which they can not pitch more than 5 give it to Glover or Ginter.

Lefty Specialist-Wunsch
Long Relief-Glover/Ginter
MR-Marte
MR-Gordon
MR-Loser of 5 spot in rotation/FA
CL-Koch


Hopefully Gordon is healthy and can dominate ahead of Koch.Two hard throwing righties mix it in with Marte,I'm thinking were allright.Im giving us a 12 Man Staff,I'm doing this just in case our bullpen is tired with the inexperience of Rauch and Wright has some bad games when he is off.

your pitching looks good to me except for glover's role in the bullpen. it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me to throw glover in long relief. he's proven time and time again that he is much much more successful in short stints. working out of the pen as the setup man last season his era was below 1 before he was moved into the rotation and well below 2 on the season. moving him to long relief is a recipe for disaster. you have to put him in that other middle relief spot, preferrably as the set up man in my opinion.

also, it would make much more sense for the loser of the fifth starter spot (assuming stewart even makes it much of a competition) in the long relief spot because that pitcher will have more pitches and be used to throwing more innings.

Foulke You
01-21-2003, 02:22 AM
Wunsch was successful in 2000 partly because Manuel used him smarter back then. Kelly should be uses as a lefty specialist. Period, end of story. And he should only be using him in short stints as he did in 2000 (1 or 2 left batters) and then yank him. In 2002 Manuel got away from this philosophy with Wunsch and left him in to face righty batters who have always batted will against him. Even his numbers in 2000 supported this theory. If I remember right, lefties hit like .150 off of Wunsch and close to .300 for righties. Certainly the injuries played a part in Wunsch's decline but it wasn't all his fault. "The Tinkerer" had a hand.

jeremyb1
01-21-2003, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by Foulke You
Wunsch was successful in 2000 partly because Manuel used him smarter back then. Kelly should be uses as a lefty specialist. Period, end of story. And he should only be using him in short stints as he did in 2000 (1 or 2 left batters) and then yank him. In 2002 Manuel got away from this philosophy with Wunsch and left him in to face righty batters who have always batted will against him. Even his numbers in 2000 supported this theory. If I remember right, lefties hit like .150 off of Wunsch and close to .300 for righties. Certainly the injuries played a part in Wunsch's decline but it wasn't all his fault. "The Tinkerer" had a hand.

you know, i don't understand that complaint. that seems more to me like just looking to find another reason to unjustifiably complain about manuel.

we were out of the race by the time wunsch returned to the team and marte had taken over as the more prominant lefty in the pen. what was manuel supposed to do? throw wunsch back into the fire in late game situations when we needed to get a lefty out? wunsch was still returning from surgery and didn't have all of his velocity back. manuel mostly used wunsch in long relief in games which were not close so wunsch could work his way back in low pressure situations where the outcome of the game didn't hinge on his performance. we were out of the race and wunsch needed innings to become reacquianted with pitching to major leaguers. i see no other way manuel could've acted.

gogosoxgogo
01-21-2003, 11:57 AM
Wunsch against lefties last year:
2-1 1.31 ERA 15K 8BB 20.2IP .195 Opponents Batting average

Wunsch against righties last year:
0-1 7.36 ERA 7K 11BB 11IP .250 Opponents Batting average

So long as Wunsch is used against lefties, he is still very effective.

Glover as a reliever last year:
0-1 1.21 ERA 16K 9BB 22.1IP .183 Opponents batting average

Glover as a starter last year:
7-7 5.97 ERA 54K 43BB 116IP .258 Opponents batting average

Let Glover start. Please. Glover is extremely effective out of the pen.

jortafan
01-21-2003, 12:55 PM
Perhaps I'm silly for even thinking of this, but how do the '03 Sox fare on the ex-Cub factor?

I know the '60 Pirates and '01 Diamondbacks overcame it, but I'd hate to see our ballclub burdened by having too many dinks from the North Side on our team.

gogosoxgogo
01-21-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by jortafan
Perhaps I'm silly for even thinking of this, but how do the '03 Sox fare on the ex-Cub factor?

I know the '60 Pirates and '01 Diamondbacks overcame it, but I'd hate to see our ballclub burdened by having too many dinks from the North Side on our team.

Garland and Gordon. I think that's it. Not too bad if I'm not missing anyone.

Foulke You
01-21-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Garland and Gordon. I think that's it. Not too bad if I'm not missing anyone.

I only count Gordon. Garland never had a chance to get tainted by the parent club as he was never called up. :D:

joecrede
01-21-2003, 04:41 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Wunsch against lefties last year:
2-1 1.31 ERA 15K 8BB 20.2IP .195 Opponents Batting average

Wunsch against righties last year:
0-1 7.36 ERA 7K 11BB 11IP .250 Opponents Batting average

[B]So long as Wunsch is used against lefties, he is still very effective.

A lefty specialist like Wunsch isn't a good fit in a pen with two other lefties. If Munoz or more likely Sanders makes the team in ST I could see him being dealt.