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View Full Version : Nice work Kenny, now...


gogosoxgogo
01-15-2003, 07:01 PM
Let's go for the gold! Address our issues in centerfield with Beltran by ripping off Kansas City, who don't know what they're doing, and the AL is ours for the taking!

Daver
01-15-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Let's go for the gold! Address our issues in centerfield with Beltran by ripping off Kansas City, who don't know what they're doing, and the AL is ours for the taking!

The Sox already have a CFer that they have invested 5 million dollars in,maybe they should let him play?

gogosoxgogo
01-15-2003, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by daver
The Sox already have a CFer that they have invested 5 million dollars in,maybe they should let him play?

Who would you rather have, Beltran or Rowand? I like Rowand a lot, he's a great guy and plays with all of his heart... but I think he is a backup outfielder at best. He plays nice defense and is not too bad of a hitter, and like I said, a great team player. I wouldn't mind keeping him in a backup outfileder role.

Daver
01-15-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Who would you rather have, Beltran or Rowand? I like Rowand a lot, he's a great guy and plays with all of his heart... but I think he is a backup outfielder at best. He plays nice defense and is not too bad of a hitter, and like I said, a great team player. I wouldn't mind keeping him in a backup outfileder role.

Rowand?

Aaron Rowand is a fourth outfielder on a decent team at best,why would you think I was talking about him?

gogosoxgogo
01-15-2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by daver
Rowand?

Aaron Rowand is a fourth outfielder on a decent team at best,why would you think I was talking about him?

Good, I was hoping you wern't talking about Rowand. $5mil for him is insane! Do you mean Borchard? Borchard is a corner outfielder who will take over Lee's spot eventually as Lee is either traded or moves to DH.

You'll have to forgive me, I'm not all too big on salaries of players. I try not to follow payroll issues, as I don't think they should be as big a part of the game as they have become in recent years (trading players for money nowadays!?).

Daver
01-15-2003, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Good, I was hoping you wern't talking about Rowand. $5mil for him is insane! Do you mean Borchard? Borchard is a corner outfielder who will take over Lee's spot eventually as Lee is either traded or moves to DH.

You'll have to forgive me, I'm not all too big on salaries of players. I try not to follow payroll issues, as I don't think they should be as big a part of the game as they have become in recent years (trading players for money nowadays!?).

Borchard can play center,and his talent is wasted in LF.

5 mil is not Borchard's salary,the Sox had to pay him that to get him away from playing football,he already has that money in the bank.

gogosoxgogo
01-15-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by daver
Borchard can play center,and his talent is wasted in LF.

5 mil is not Borchard's salary,the Sox had to pay him that to get him away from playing football,he already has that money in the bank.

Ok, thanks for the info. I'm still going to stick to wanting Beltran in center and Borchard in left. This is of course assuming that Lee is either moved to DH or traded as there has been much speculation. My reasoning behind wanting Borchard in left instead of center is because of many reports saying that he may not turn out to be the greatest center fielder, but is better suited for the corners. Now, I'll be honest, I don't know much about Borchard besides what the media tells me and what I saw of him in September (when he played) with the Sox. I'm mainly going on the word of top prospect sites.

Daver
01-15-2003, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Ok, thanks for the info. I'm still going to stick to wanting Beltran in center and Borchard in left. This is of course assuming that Lee is either moved to DH or traded as there has been much speculation. My reasoning behind wanting Borchard in left instead of center is because of many reports saying that he may not turn out to be the greatest center fielder, but is better suited for the corners. Now, I'll be honest, I don't know much about Borchard besides what the media tells me and what I saw of him in September (when he played) with the Sox. I'm mainly going on the word of top prospect sites.

I'm going by the word of members of this forum that have seen him play,in CF,and know what they are talking about.Borchard is not an over the top drop dead CFer ala Ken Griffey,but he has the range and the speed to play the position at this level,add to that the fact that he has Light Tower Power from both sides of the plate and I would rather have Borchard than Beltran.

gogosoxgogo
01-15-2003, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by daver
I would rather have Borchard than Beltran.

Me too... I want Beltran over Lee.

Daver
01-15-2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Me too... I want Beltran over Lee.

As much as I hate to see El Vaco grazing in left feild,his bat and his new found plate discipline make him rather diffucult to overlook going into this season.

:)

StepsInSC
01-15-2003, 07:57 PM
This is of course assuming that Lee is either moved to DH or traded as there has been much speculation

Why is Lee going to be moved to DH?

Viva Magglio
01-15-2003, 08:10 PM
To get Carlos Beltrán, what would we have to give Kansas City? He won't come cheap.

guillen4life13
01-15-2003, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
Why is Lee going to be moved to DH?

I think the expectation of most fans on these boards is that Frank is entering his last season as a member of the White Sox. I tend to agree with that notion. He has the opportunity to opt for free agency after this year.

gogosoxgogo
01-15-2003, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
To get Carlos Beltrán, what would we have to give Kansas City? He won't come cheap.

I do agree with you. Here is the response I was given:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=143238#post143238

DirtySouthsider
01-15-2003, 08:24 PM
If the Sox really do want to take the next step, then keep all your outfielders and just sign Ivan Rodriguez as a free agent.
He's expensive but that would be an incredible bat to add to an already very good line up!

Daver
01-15-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by DirtySouthsider
If the Sox really do want to take the next step, then keep all your outfielders and just sign Ivan Rodriguez as a free agent.
He's expensive but that would be an incredible bat to add to an already very good line up!

As good as IRod's bat is,I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Sox young pitchers,in no way, shape,or form.

gogosoxgogo
01-15-2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by daver
As good as IRod's bat is,I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Sox young pitchers,in no way, shape,or form.

...and far too expensive and injury prone. I don't care how much money we have to spend.

jeremyb1
01-16-2003, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by daver
Rowand?

Aaron Rowand is a fourth outfielder on a decent team at best,why would you think I was talking about him?

i don't think rowand is a great player by any means but i think he's good enough. a lot of posters here accuse me of ignoring the "little things" and focusing on stats too much but this is one place where i make an exception. this is not so much because i think rowand's ability to do the little things is critical to us winning but i feel like we don't need an all-star calliber player at every position. we just don't. crede is our 7th hitter right now and that's quite good. our offense will be just find with olivo and rowand hitting 8 and 9.

a number of posters on this board think we should've traded one of our best young pitchers for darrin erstad and then signed him to a 7 or 8 million per year extension. erstad's ops last season was only .702 last season. rowand posted a .752 ops with regular atbats in the second halp and an .816 ops in his rookie season. if he can post numbers similar to that he won't hold us back. the angels won a world series with erstad.

a lot of people like to critisize rowand's defense but you didn't have to watch more than 5 or 10 games last year to tell that while not as flashy he got to as many and probably more balls than lofton did. he's not great at any aspect of the game but doesn't have to be for us to win games. he's solid and that's good enough.

if borchard proves he's ready i'm all for playing him. since his hot start in AAA last season though, he hasn't really played like it. at least not for consistent stretches.

people complain that we rushed a player like garland to the majors after he dominated AAA over half a season with an era of 2 and great secondary numbers yet we're supposed to bring up borchard after he hit .270 and struck out 140 times in AAA? that i don't understand.

cornball
01-16-2003, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by daver
I'm going by the word of members of this forum that have seen him play,in CF,and know what they are talking about.Borchard is not an over the top drop dead CFer ala Ken Griffey,but he has the range and the speed to play the position at this level,add to that the fact that he has Light Tower Power from both sides of the plate and I would rather have Borchard than Beltran.

Most of the play I have seen of Borchard was from the college world series, where he played RF for Standford. The Sox decided to make him a CF, I believe he is more of a corner outfielder.

If he had decent range on either side of him in center, that would be great, but he doesn't get the jump on a ball like the best CF in the majors, from what I have seen.

When he learns the strike zone, I dont care where they play him. lol

cornball
01-16-2003, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
...and far too expensive and injury prone. I don't care how much money we have to spend.

Spend the money!!!!!

It is not yours anyway.

hold2dibber
01-16-2003, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i don't think rowand is a great player by any means but i think he's good enough. a lot of posters here accuse me of ignoring the "little things" and focusing on stats too much but this is one place where i make an exception. this is not so much because i think rowand's ability to do the little things is critical to us winning but i feel like we don't need an all-star calliber player at every position. we just don't. crede is our 7th hitter right now and that's quite good. our offense will be just find with olivo and rowand hitting 8 and 9.

a number of posters on this board think we should've traded one of our best young pitchers for darrin erstad and then signed him to a 7 or 8 million per year extension. erstad's ops last season was only .702 last season. rowand posted a .752 ops with regular atbats in the second halp and an .816 ops in his rookie season. if he can post numbers similar to that he won't hold us back. the angels won a world series with erstad.

a lot of people like to critisize rowand's defense but you didn't have to watch more than 5 or 10 games last year to tell that while not as flashy he got to as many and probably more balls than lofton did. he's not great at any aspect of the game but doesn't have to be for us to win games. he's solid and that's good enough.

if borchard proves he's ready i'm all for playing him. since his hot start in AAA last season though, he hasn't really played like it. at least not for consistent stretches.

people complain that we rushed a player like garland to the majors after he dominated AAA over half a season with an era of 2 and great secondary numbers yet we're supposed to bring up borchard after he hit .270 and struck out 140 times in AAA? that i don't understand.

Well said!

The only thing I would add is, that I am concerned about the fact that we don't have anyone who can hit lead-off if Jimenez doesn't get the job done, and a CF upgrade with someone capable of leading off (Rowand is not capable of leading off) would be nice. But I think Rowand is good enough, particularly in light of the other offensive fire power the Sox have.

cornball
01-16-2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Well said!

The only thing I would add is, that I am concerned about the fact that we don't have anyone who can hit lead-off if Jimenez doesn't get the job done, and a CF upgrade with someone capable of leading off (Rowand is not capable of leading off) would be nice. But I think Rowand is good enough, particularly in light of the other offensive fire power the Sox have.


And you have no concerns of his shoulder injuries?

Unregistered
01-16-2003, 04:06 PM
Along with Colon, the Sox acquired minor-league infielder Jorge Nunez, whom Williams called "a slick-fielding infielder who can run.''

"He's more insurance for us in a utility spot in the big leagues,'' Williams said, "but he will probably be sent to Class AAA. We expect Tony Graffanino [who suffered a season-ending knee injury last year] to be 100 percent for spring training, but you have to insulate yourself to injuries or setbacks.'' Funny how Kenny has that logic about Utility infielders when there seems like such a shallow pool of backup position players and pitchers on this team....

hold2dibber
01-16-2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by cornball
And you have no concerns of his shoulder injuries?

That's a good point. I guess I'm assuming that the Sox are keeping close tabs on his condition and would make a move if there was any reason for concern. If he's not ready to go, I still would not want to rush Borchard into the starting role. I strongly feel that he should spend at least half of '03 in Charlotte. If Rowand is a no go, I guess Willie Harris is the man. He can run like hell, but he won't hit much more than .200 at this point, IMHO. IIRC, he doesn't really know how to play CF yet, but his speed helps cover up some of the bad jumps and misreads he has out there. Also, I don't know enough about Rios to know whether he could play CF, but he sounds like a better offensive option than Harris.

ma-gaga
01-16-2003, 04:41 PM
Hey hold2,
I sent you a Private Message... :D:

jeremyb1
01-16-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by cornball
And you have no concerns of his shoulder injuries?

not really. he's not a pitcher. the only concern is that he's ready. there shouldn't be any long lasting impacts or anything. if he's finished his rehab and is back by spring training we're set. all sources so far has indicated he's doing very well on his rehab. if he's not ready harris is a suitable replacement for a few weeks.