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doublem23
01-15-2003, 10:15 AM
Sox lose: Osuna, Lantigua (minor leaguer), Biddle, and Liefer!

HELL YEAH

JRIG
01-15-2003, 10:17 AM
It's the minor leaguer and Osuna to the Ynks, Biddle El Duque and Liefer to the Expos. Sox will sign Tom Gordon probably tomorrow, per ESPN Radio 1000.

cheeses_h_rice
01-15-2003, 10:19 AM
Well, I'll miss Osuna and Biddle to some extent, but you have to give something to get something, and with Colon/Burly as our 1/2 combo, I'm feeling a lot more optimistic about the team than I was just a few days ago.

Plus we got rid of that .219-hitting, golfball-swinging Leff Liefer!

gosox41
01-15-2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
Sox lose: Osuna, Lantigua (minor leaguer), Biddle, and Liefer!

HELL YEAH

Before I actually want to praise KW, does anyone one know anything about Lantigua. Also I would have rather dumped Koch then Osuna. Our bullpen is much weaker then last season.

Bob

hold2dibber
01-15-2003, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Before I actually want to praise KW, does anyone one know anything about Lantigua. Also I would have rather dumped Koch then Osuna. Our bullpen is much weaker then last season.

Bob

Seriously? Osuna is mediocre, has had arm problems, and is much older than Koch. Plus, Osuna doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to close games, IMHO.

Unregistered
01-15-2003, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I would have rather dumped Koch then Osuna. Our bullpen is much weaker then last season. If we dumped Koch, we'd have no true closer, and would have eventually made the Foulke/Koch deal pointless. I'd much rather have Koch close out games than Marte or Osuna. I'll miss Rocky, but mainly because of his name. Well done, KW.

doublem23
01-15-2003, 10:24 AM
ESPN is now reporting that the Expos also sent us a minor league infielder, Jorge Nunez.

pearso66
01-15-2003, 10:25 AM
i have to say, not bad at all, granted we don't need Tom Gordon, but he wasn't in the trade. I never liked Osuna, and the only person we lost i liked was Biddle, but he's worth it for Colon, now we just need to sign him to a numerous year deal

hold2dibber
01-15-2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by JRIG
It's the minor leaguer and Osuna to the Ynks, Biddle El Duque and Liefer to the Expos. Sox will sign Tom Gordon probably tomorrow, per ESPN Radio 1000.

This, obviously, is a great deal for the Sox. They now have a 1-2 combo at the top of the rotation that won 39 games playing for mediocre teams. The only other 1-2 combos I can think of that won that many games last year are the Red Sox (Martinez and Lowe) and the D-Backs (Schilling and Johnson). Osuna is easily replaceable (and apparently will be replaced shortly by Gordon). I really like Biddle and wouldn't be surprised to see him turn into a decent starter, along the lines of someone like Tony Armas Jr. or Cory Lidle. But that's not a lot to give up for a potential no. 1 starter like Colon.

NewyorkSoxFan
01-15-2003, 10:27 AM
I just hope that we don't get fat and happy with this signing. I don't want to be a kill joy. We will tell K dub what else to do tommorow.


NYSF

wulfy
01-15-2003, 10:28 AM
Perhaps Gordon can grow a mullet in memory of Antonio.

doublem23
01-15-2003, 10:29 AM
Story on deal from whitesox.com (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20030115&content_id=191587&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp)

JRIG
01-15-2003, 10:30 AM
Jorge Nunez played 42 games at 2B and 30 games at SS for AAA Ottawa last year. He batted .291/.322/.351 with 9 doubles and 4 triples, 12 BB, 43 Ks and 27 stolen bases.

TRL
01-15-2003, 10:38 AM
I like the deal. Liefer didn't want to be here anyway, and Osuna and Biddle are reasonably replaceable. I liked Osuna in the pen, but he's made me nervous a number of times and seems to give up a lot of gopher balls.

I know one thing for sure though, the rotation looks a heck of a lot better!

Chisox353014
01-15-2003, 10:39 AM
So does this mean I have to stop calling Colon "Fatolo"? :D:

Wow. Never thought I'd see the day when Kenny would fleece somebody on a deal, least of all the Yankees. But before we get too excited, I believe Kenny fleecing the Yankees in a trade is, in fact, the third sign of the Apocalypse, so the world may be ending before Opening Day. :gulp:

Dadawg_77
01-15-2003, 10:41 AM
The Sox didn't fleece the Yankees, the Yankees had 8 starters and need some middle relief help. The Sox gave them that for the yankees number 6-7. So the Yankees save some cash and get help where they need it.

Viva Magglio
01-15-2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by JRIG
Jorge Nunez played 42 games at 2B and 30 games at SS for AAA Ottawa last year. He batted .291/.322/.351 with 9 doubles and 4 triples, 12 BB, 43 Ks and 27 stolen bases.

:manos
If he's ready for SS, am I trade bait?

Unregistered
01-15-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Chisox353014
Never thought I'd see the day when Kenny would fleece somebody on a deal, least of all the Yankees. I think it's more of the Yankees willingness to get ''fleeced'', so long as Colon didn't end up in a Red Sox jersey.

Unregistered
01-15-2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by Unregistered
I think it's more of the Yankees willingness to get ''fleeced'', so long as Colon didn't end up in a Red Sox jersey. I can just picture Cashman holding KW's hand through the entire thing, too... ''Look, Kenny, just sign the deal. I promise it'll be a good one. Here, give me the pen, I'LL sign it...''

hold2dibber
01-15-2003, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
:manos
If he's ready for SS, am I trade bait?

Nunez AAA numbers don't suggest to me that he's ready for the majors. Jose isn't going anywhere (at least not this year).

CHISOXFAN13
01-15-2003, 10:53 AM
We hardly knew ye El Duque!!

FanOf14
01-15-2003, 10:55 AM
This is so weird, I had a feeling something was going on with the sox today so I decided to try and check in here before the guy I am working with gets back and I'll be damned, KW pulled something decent off. I'll really miss Biddle, but you gotta give to receive in MLB. Now I am glad that my ex-boss and I are going in on a partial season tickey package to get All-Star tickets.

Woo-Hoo! :) :D: :) :D:

joecrede
01-15-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
The Sox didn't fleece the Yankees, the Yankees had 8 starters and need some middle relief help. The Sox gave them that for the yankees number 6-7. So the Yankees save some cash and get help where they need it.

Seems to me the Sox were the big beneficiary of the Yankees not wanting the Red Sox to get Colon. Thanks Yanks and see you in the ALCS ... screw Boston. :)

Unregistered
01-15-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
We hardly knew ye El Duque!! Heh, Old Man Hernandez would've bumped our average player age to about 35...

Procol Harum
01-15-2003, 10:56 AM
I like the cut of this trade's jib!! Buerhle and Colon makes for a great 1-2 (as long as the Chicago baseball gremlins don't intervene). Somebody better check w/ the FBI--Kenny Williams must be missing and someone has assumed his identity--I can't believe he actually engineered this deal. When I first heard the rumor last night I assumed we could kiss Buehrle, Maggs and Konerko goodbye....

:KW

"Clever Earthling--I am Xentor of the planet Gleglos!!"

Chisox353014
01-15-2003, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Unregistered
I think it's more of the Yankees willingness to get ''fleeced'', so long as Colon didn't end up in a Red Sox jersey.

Hey, given Kenny's recent track record, I'll take what I can get. Any major KW deal where the Sox come out as the clear winner is a fleecing in my book. Of course, my book is missing a few pages...

Meatpants
01-15-2003, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by FanOf14
I'll really miss Biddle

There's something I never thought I'd hear :D

GREAT trade for the Sox, even if Colon leaves in '04. Guys like Biddle are a dime a dozen, Liefer is nothing special and had no place here. Osuna was very good for us, but he was expendable, especially if they sign Gordon.

Got Colon without giving up ANY top prospects! :D:D:D

Procol Harum
01-15-2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Meatpants
There's something I never thought I'd hear :D
Got Colon without giving up ANY top prospects! :D:D:D

Yeah, that was the gravy!! On the Score this morning Murph & Fred were reading some sort of story that was speculating we would be giving up Almonte and another of our blue chippers whom I'm currently brain cramping on along with Liefer and an unspecified body from our 'pen. THAT trade, while I probably would have accepted it in the quest to make the team a contender, would not have been nearly as appealing.

ChiSoxBobette
01-15-2003, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Before I actually want to praise KW, does anyone one know anything about Lantigua. Also I would have rather dumped Koch then Osuna. Our bullpen is much weaker then last season.

Bob
Dump Koch and keep Osuna , what are you smoking!Koch is one of the better closers in the A.L., except now that he's with the White Sox according to some of you baseball experts;Osuna would come into a game last year 3 runs up and 2 outs and would turn a no brainer into a nail biter or let the other team tie the game up. Come on all of you people complained about Keith Foulke last year we go out and get Koch and now he stinks(probably because the great & mighty Billy Beane traded him, so of course somethings wrong with Koch).Now we go out and get Colon(which everyone who's a White Sox fan has been screaming for) and I'm sure Williams got suckered right. Yeah Osuna, Biddle & Leifer were going to lead us to the world series , as far as the rookie we traded Lantigua even if the guy turns out to be great and Colon does what he's brought here to do, Oh Well - you have to give up something to get something sometimes!

OfficerKarkovice
01-15-2003, 11:17 AM
Nice trade on our part...I will however miss Rocky, he was one of my favorite Sox player and I think sooner or later he's going to make an impact with some team. Great job by KW tho!

He even got rid of the devil in baseball cleats himself...Jeff Leifer!!!

AsInWreck
01-15-2003, 11:27 AM
One word: YEEESSSSSSS!

Viva Magglio
01-15-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by FanOf14
This is so weird, I had a feeling something was going on with the sox today so I decided to try and check in here before the guy I am working with gets back and I'll be damned, KW pulled something decent off. I'll really miss Biddle, but you gotta give to receive in MLB. Now I am glad that my ex-boss and I are going in on a partial season tickey package to get All-Star tickets.

Woo-Hoo! :) :D: :) :D:

:reinsy
Kenny, why do you have me locked in the storage closet?

dougs78
01-15-2003, 11:37 AM
THis deal is simply outstanding. I can't think of one negative thing to say about this deal. I'm very anxious to see the response this deal gets from LipMan and some of the other management haters on this board. This is a huge positive step for 2 very importnat reasons. #1, it means we are willing to go for something and acquire instead of unload. And perhaps more importantly, #2, Kenny acquired a great starting pitcher while giving up less than he did for either RItchie or D. Wells. SImply amazing.

voodoochile
01-15-2003, 11:55 AM
Leifer, Biddle, Osuna and parts for Bartolo? Sounds like a troll board trade...

NO WAY!!!

:KW
"Way..."

YES! YES!! YES!!!

WOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!

StepsInSC
01-15-2003, 11:59 AM
Can't remember the last time I've felt this happy over a deal involving the Sox. I can honestly say, now, the season doesn't start soon enough!

delben91
01-15-2003, 12:07 PM
Holy ****!!! Kenny, way to go man, this is amazing!!!! I was really trying to keep my hopes down so when nothing happened I wouldn't be disappointed. But wow, this is so sweet!!! See you later Liefer, go strikeout for someone else!

alohafri
01-15-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Meatpants
There's something I never thought I'd hear :D

Guys like Biddle are a dime a dozen

They are, but Rocky had something that I just couldn't put my finger on, a little chuzpah (or however it is spelled).

Dadawg_77
01-15-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by alohafri
They are, but Rocky had something that I just couldn't put my finger on, a little chuzpah (or however it is spelled).

It was the facial hair.

OfficerKarkovice
01-15-2003, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by alohafri
They are, but Rocky had something that I just couldn't put my finger on, a little chuzpah (or however it is spelled).

Cahones

Effigy
01-15-2003, 12:16 PM
Wow. That's all I can say.

Congrats on getting Colon. :o:

gosox41
01-15-2003, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by ChiSoxBob
Dump Koch and keep Osuna , what are you smoking!Koch is one of the better closers in the A.L., except now that he's with the White Sox according to some of you baseball experts;Osuna would come into a game last year 3 runs up and 2 outs and would turn a no brainer into a nail biter or let the other team tie the game up. Come on all of you people complained about Keith Foulke last year we go out and get Koch and now he stinks(probably because the great & mighty Billy Beane traded him, so of course somethings wrong with Koch).Now we go out and get Colon(which everyone who's a White Sox fan has been screaming for) and I'm sure Williams got suckered right. Yeah Osuna, Biddle & Leifer were going to lead us to the world series , as far as the rookie we traded Lantigua even if the guy turns out to be great and Colon does what he's brought here to do, Oh Well - you have to give up something to get something sometimes!

Billy Koch is a one dimensional pitcher. He's got below average control. If his fastball dips even a few MPH, there goes any effectiveness he has. Keith Foulke pitched circles around Koch. I don't care how many saves he had last season just like some may not care that a fastball pitcher coming off shoulder surgery had by far the highest workload of his career. The Foulke trade was stupid. Not dumping Koch now is even worse. Osuna may not be the greatest but he is a lot more reliable then Billy. Maybe Billy needs to do some more trash talking.



Bob

Winning_Ugly
01-15-2003, 12:24 PM
This is GENIUS!

hold2dibber
01-15-2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Billy Koch is a one dimensional pitcher. He's got below average control. If his fastball dips even a few MPH, there goes any effectiveness he has. Keith Foulke pitched circles around Koch. I don't care how many saves he had last season just like some may not care that a fastball pitcher coming off shoulder surgery had by far the highest workload of his career. The Foulke trade was stupid. Not dumping Koch now is even worse. Osuna may not be the greatest but he is a lot more reliable then Billy. Maybe Billy needs to do some more trash talking.



Bob

I doubt a single GM in baseball would deal Koch for Osuna, straight up. Although not a fan of the deal to get Koch, dealing him instead of Osuna in this trade would have been ridiculous. Even if you do think the Sox should deal him, he has much more trade value than Osuna, and it therefore would not have been wise to send him in this deal instead of Osuna. If you compare their stats from last year (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_sortable_player_stats.jsp?section2=null&statSet2=null&statType=2&sortByStat=SV&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2002&baseballScope=AL&prevPage2=1&readBoxes=true&subScope=pos&teamPosCode=1&box2=XXXX150477oakX&box16=XXXX120107chaX&compare.x=32&compare.y=5), Koch clearly was more effective. Plus he's younger and under Sox control for 3 more years (Osuna is going into the last year of his contract).

Lip Man 1
01-15-2003, 12:30 PM
Ask and ye shall receive!

Sorry I'm late but remember I'm out here in the West. Just got done communicating with Bob Vanderberg at the Trib. Apparently Phil Rogers beat everybody else in the market on the story and they are pretty happy about that.

As far as the trade itself, a few points:

1. This is a deal the Sox HAD to make. They simply had to show the fans something positive, to at least give them a chance or a reason to want to go out to the park (er masolium) this Summer.

2. I give credit to Williams for making the move HOWEVER it STILL has to work out doesn't it? (see: Wells, David and Ritchie, Todd) The bottom line is making moves that actually work. After a period of time the "injury" excuse and so on loses credibility. Either you (as a GM) can get the job done or not. "Trying" is all well and good but just like a player, a GM has to actually produce something. In this case a winner in a weak division.

3. REMEMBER Colon is here for this year only. (Call it rent-a-player III) The Sox will NEVER sign him to a multi year deal because Reinsdorf will not allow it and because his asking price will be astronomical. (Especially if he has another quality season). Just more pressure on Williams for this deal to work.

3. I was sorry to see Osuna go, however if the Sox now sign Gordon as expected this won't be to big a loss.

4. Even WITH Gordon, I still feel the Sox need ANOTHER quality, effective middle man. Some are still available....go get one.

Overall impression is that considering what the Sox gave up (Biddle--an injured pitcher who never showed that much, and Liefer a "corner" player which the Sox have in abundance) this is a B+ grade. If they had been able to keep Osuna or Hernandez and trade prospects instead, I would have given an A.

Dan H
01-15-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
Nice trade on our part...I will however miss Rocky, he was one of my favorite Sox player and I think sooner or later he's going to make an impact with some team. Great job by KW tho!

He even got rid of the devil in baseball cleats himself...Jeff Leifer!!!

I won't miss anyone. The Sox needed a frontline starter and got one. I just hope they are not done. This is no time to get complacent.


No more promises. Just do it already.