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34 Inch Stick
01-15-2003, 10:06 AM
If this is true me elation is equal to my disappointment over the Millwood move. Kenny, I now have a much better opinion of you. I will now go back to purchasing my 7 game package, and I may even buy more. I will have to wait to see who the "pitcher" is but I find it very difficult to have overpaid by sending any bullpen pitcher and Liefer.

I agreed with the Wells move. I hated the Ritchie move. I love this one. Kenny way to not give up because of previous failure. Great perseverance in getting this pitcher. Depending on the pitcher this may be just a little less of a steal than Millwood.

gosox41
01-15-2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
If this is true me elation is equal to my disappointment over the Millwood move. Kenny, I now have a much better opinion of you. I will now go back to purchasing my 7 game package, and I may even buy more. I will have to wait to see who the "pitcher" is but I find it very difficult to have overpaid by sending any bullpen pitcher and Liefer.

I agreed with the Wells move. I hated the Ritchie move. I love this one. Kenny way to not give up because of previous failure. Great perseverance in getting this pitcher. Depending on the pitcher this may be just a little less of a steal than Millwood.

I'm waiting to hear who exactly is involved in the final trade before I pass judgment on KW. And I'll be fair in judging this trade and may even have some respect for KW, but he could have still given up a lot less for a healthier pitcher in Millwood.

I may be one of those 'complainers', but hte reality is Millwood could have been had for thge equivalent of a 26 year old AAA catcher and that's it.

Bob

34 Inch Stick
01-15-2003, 10:32 AM
Colon is a better pitcher than Millwood. We really did not give up very much for him when you look at it objectively.

hold2dibber
01-15-2003, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I'm waiting to hear who exactly is involved in the final trade before I pass judgment on KW. And I'll be fair in judging this trade and may even have some respect for KW, but he could have still given up a lot less for a healthier pitcher in Millwood.

I may be one of those 'complainers', but hte reality is Millwood could have been had for thge equivalent of a 26 year old AAA catcher and that's it.

Bob

I don't think its fair to slam KW for the Millwood deal, since we don't really know if Schueholz called the Sox or, if he did, what he demanded. Schuerholz made that deal awfully quickly, and I just don't think he could possibly have talked to all of the GMs then got back to them with the Estrada deal to ask them to beat it. We don't know the facts. And whatever you say about KW with respect to that deal applies to every other GM in the league as well.

jeremyb1
01-15-2003, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Colon is a better pitcher than Millwood. We really did not give up very much for him when you look at it objectively.

beggars can't be choosers and i'm quite pleased with what we came away with but i'd rather have millwood next season. i'm rather confident he'll have the better season. i hope i'm wrong. i guess we'll see.

Clarkdog
01-15-2003, 03:35 PM
I think before we get all warm and fuzzy about KW, we wait a hear how this deal really panned out. I think Cashman probably put it together, knowing that they had to get rid of a starter and didn't want Boston to acquire Colon. He knew that KW and the Sox were still interested, and the Sox had what the Yanks were looking for.

KW should be credited for not giving up, but I don't think he made this deal happen. A three team deal where everyone gets what they need, and no one overpays? That just doesn't sound like Kenny.

I'm not complaining, love the deal, LOVE the deal. Could care less how it happened.

If the Sox win the AL or WS - Brian Cashman will be executive of the year.

Unregistered
01-15-2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Clarkdog
I think before we get a warm and fuzzy about KW, we wait a hear how this deal really panned out. I think Cashman probably put it together, knowing that they had to get rid of a starter and didn't want Boston to acquire Colon. He knew that KW and the Sox were still interested, and the Sox had what the Yanks were looking for.

KW should be credited for not giving up, but I don't think he made this deal happen. A three team deal where everyone gets what they need, and no one overpays? That just doesn't sound like Kenny. From the Tribune Yankees GM Brian Cashman was looking to ease that glut and reduce payroll while also trying to shore up a bullpen that lost free agents Mike Stanton to the New York Mets and Ramiro Mendoza to Boston. He approached Williams, offering Hernandez and asking about Osuna and Lantigua.

"Ken Williams rejected that proposal," Cashman said. "In the last few days, he called back and said if he was able to do a three-way deal he might revisit it. We didn't make this decision to prevent Boston from getting better. It was right for our organization."
So I guess it WAS KW that, in some way, put it together...

kermittheefrog
01-15-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Clarkdog
I think before we get all warm and fuzzy about KW, we wait a hear how this deal really panned out. I think Cashman probably put it together, knowing that they had to get rid of a starter and didn't want Boston to acquire Colon. He knew that KW and the Sox were still interested, and the Sox had what the Yanks were looking for.

KW should be credited for not giving up, but I don't think he made this deal happen. A three team deal where everyone gets what they need, and no one overpays? That just doesn't sound like Kenny.

I'm not complaining, love the deal, LOVE the deal. Could care less how it happened.

If the Sox win the AL or WS - Brian Cashman will be executive of the year.

Dude he totally fleeced the crap out of the Expos with the help of the Yankees. It was a thing of the beauty. The Expos were owned.

OH MAN I love this SO much...

delben91
01-15-2003, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Dude he totally fleeced the crap out of the Expos with the help of the Yankees. It was a thing of the beauty. The Expos were owned.

OH MAN I love this SO much...

"fleeced" being said as something KW did to someone else and not the reverse is something I never thought I'd see. But man do I love the look of it. And look at that, no mention of Billy Beane anywhere!!

Clarkdog
01-15-2003, 03:48 PM
So I guess it WAS KW that, in some way, put it together ...

Unregistered---
From ESPN INsider:

Yankees hatching clever plot?
by Jim Baker
Send an Email to Jim Baker

Could the Yankees be working a deal for Bartolo Colon without the intention of putting him in a New York uniform? According to a report in the New York Daily News by Bill Madden and Adam Rubin, the Yankees spent the better part of Tuesday hatching a nefarious plan that, should it occur, has got to be one of the very few "preventative trades" in baseball history.

Madden and Rubin quote a "source" as saying the Yankees are working a three-team deal involving the Expos and either the Marlins or White Sox that would see them ship Orlando Hernandez to Montreal and the Expos send Colon to either Miami or Chicago. New York would get a "top prospect" but, more important, would achieve the goal of keeping Colon out of the hands of the hated Boston Red Sox, the team that has been trying hardest to get the expansive ace from Montreal. (Tony Massarotti of the Boston Herald writes that the deal is set up with the White Sox with the Yankees receiving Antonio Osuna from Chicago.)

A move like this would certainly do much to intensify the acrimony between New York and Boston, two franchises that have already worked themselves into a frenzied state this offseason with accusations of evil imperialism and counter-charges of gutlessness. A move like this also -- once more -- calls into question the competitive inequities in baseball. The Yankees, with their unending sources of local television revenue, have the luxury of eight starting pitchers and can deal from strength not only for their own benefit but to the detriment of their arch rivals. What is more, they can afford to defray the salary expense of Hernandez, essentially giving the Expos a starter in return for them not trading Colon to Boston. There is something very much out of skew with that, but, should it occur, it can only serve to make the 2003 Red Sox-Yankees games that much more bitter .

We'll all find out the truth someday. But who really cares, it was a steal, we're better, and hope springs eternal for 2003.

34 Inch Stick
01-15-2003, 04:21 PM
While the Yankees were willing participants for their own evil purposes, KW got a far better pitcher for the same price. I think the term fleeced the Yankees fits.