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View Full Version : Colon to Florida?


CHISOXFAN13
01-09-2003, 10:56 AM
For Brad Penny and others, according to ESPN.com. Could wind up being a three-team deal with the Reds in the fold. I would guess Adam Dunn would be in the mix.

I didn't realize Florida was in the market to start adding payroll again. Oh well.

hold2dibber
01-09-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
For Brad Penny and others, according to ESPN.com. Could wind up being a three-team deal with the Reds in the fold. I would guess Adam Dunn would be in the mix.

I didn't realize Florida was in the market to start adding payroll again. Oh well.

Here's the link (http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0108/1489477.html).

It's not a done deal, but the report indicates that the executives of one of the club's thinks it will get done.

Hangar18
01-09-2003, 11:55 AM
Where have I heard that name before??

Is this the same team that basically gave away
their Relief Pitcher (AlFATseca) and starting Pitcher CLEMENT???
gave them away for a bad infielder and a horrible
relief pitcher.
Now they have the nerve to realize They Now Need a
Starting Pitcher?
HEY MARLINS: HOW STUPID CAN YOUR FRANCHISE BE???

THIS IS WHY THE MARLINS NEED TO BE FOLDED.
take the Devil Rays too.......god they SUCK.
gave away MCGRIFF and got nothing in return...how stupid.

Hangar18
01-09-2003, 12:03 PM
Heres whats going to happen. Just like when the stupid Marlins suprised everyone and traded for PIAZZA ("we need him,,,hes going to help our young pitching staff get to the next level")
and a month later...is traded again.

Colon will go to Florida ("WE need him to help bolster our staff and help the young pitchers here")....hang there til the allstar break,
then will end up with the YANKEES, or the Desperate-For-Anything-American-League triumverate of the PHILLIES/METS/CARDINALS. watch.

Lip Man 1
01-09-2003, 12:30 PM
Hanger 18 says:

HEY MARLINS: HOW STUPID CAN YOUR FRANCHISE BE???

Answer: About as dumb as the White Sox for not doing anything to improve a very inexperienced and dicey starting rotation.

Lip

michigan84
01-09-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
For Brad Penny and others, according to ESPN.com. Could wind up being a three-team deal with the Reds in the fold. I would guess Adam Dunn would be in the mix.

I didn't realize Florida was in the market to start adding payroll again. Oh well.

I heard this too and it sounds pretty credible.

I don't understand why the Marlins would want Colon though, they have almost no chance of resigning him because of their tight budget. We all know that once Colon hits the free agent market after next season, the Yankees are going to spend as much money as it takes to sign him. It seems a little much to trade Penny and prospects who could help in the future for one year of Colon. That trade is a little foolish and short-sighted for the Marlins I think.

Daver
01-09-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by michigan84
I heard this too and it sounds pretty credible.

I don't understand why the Marlins would want Colon though, they have almost no chance of resigning him because of their tight budget. We all know that once Colon hits the free agent market after next season, the Yankees are going to spend as much money as it takes to sign him. It seems a little much to trade Penny and prospects who could help in the future for one year of Colon. That trade is a little foolish and short-sighted for the Marlins I think.

They'd do it for the compensation they will receive when Colon leaves as a type A free agent.

Hangar18
01-09-2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by michigan84
It seems a little much to trade Penny and prospects who could help in the future for one year of Colon. That trade is a little foolish and short-sighted for the Marlins I think.

Like I said...This is the same stupid franchise that gave away Matt Clement. almost makes the Sox dumb trades look ok.
Almost.

FanOf14
01-09-2003, 01:02 PM
I thought Clement kinda sucked when he was with the Marlins. If that is so, it was nothing more than the Cubs either got lucky or the pitching scout/coach saw something the Marlins didn't.

hold2dibber
01-09-2003, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by michigan84
I heard this too and it sounds pretty credible.

I don't understand why the Marlins would want Colon though, they have almost no chance of resigning him because of their tight budget. We all know that once Colon hits the free agent market after next season, the Yankees are going to spend as much money as it takes to sign him. It seems a little much to trade Penny and prospects who could help in the future for one year of Colon. That trade is a little foolish and short-sighted for the Marlins I think.

I agree, particularly in light of the fact that the Marlins, even with Colon, have no shot of catching the Braves or the Phillies (or probably even the Mets) next year; which makes me think that they intend to sign him long term if they get him.

hold2dibber
01-09-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by daver
They'd do it for the compensation they will receive when Colon leaves as a type A free agent.

So they'd be giving up Penny and paying the difference between his salary and Colon' (a substantial amount, I'm sure) for one year of Colon (in a year in which they have no realistic chance of contending with the big boys in their division) and a draft pick who, if they're lucky, will be as good as Brad Penny in 3 or 4 years. Doesn't seem too brainy to me.

Daver
01-09-2003, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
So they'd be giving up Penny and paying the difference between his salary and Colon' (a substantial amount, I'm sure) for one year of Colon (in a year in which they have no realistic chance of contending with the big boys in their division) and a draft pick who, if they're lucky, will be as good as Brad Penny in 3 or 4 years. Doesn't seem too brainy to me.

Perhaps you have forgotten who own's the Marlins?

Jeff Loria is as sharp as a marble.

Loria uses the Marlins as little more than an excuse to collect a revenue sharing check once a year,and by acquiring Colon he can claim he is trying to improve the team,when in fact he is trying to up his share of the luxury tax money his club will receive.

Hangar18
01-09-2003, 01:37 PM
Why does that name sound familiar?
isnt he the same Jeff Loria, who abandoned the
car known as the Montreal Expos, in the middle of the road?
said he was too broke to own a team, here, let me just leave
it here in the middle of the street, you guys worry about it.

THEN...he suddenly decides he has the $$$ to afford a team,
and promptly Buys the Marlins.

FOLD THE MARLINS.....NOW
If there was a Commissioner, this would never have gone down.

Daver
01-09-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Why does that name sound familiar?
isnt he the same Jeff Loria, who abandoned the
car known as the Montreal Expos, in the middle of the road?
said he was too broke to own a team, here, let me just leave
it here in the middle of the street, you guys worry about it.

THEN...he suddenly decides he has the $$$ to afford a team,
and promptly Buys the Marlins.

FOLD THE MARLINS.....NOW
If there was a Commissioner, this would never have gone down.

The commisioner of baseball loaned him the money to buy the Marlins.

Hangar18
01-09-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by daver
The commisioner of baseball loaned him the money to buy the Marlins.

Thats even better.
Hey, I cant afford to own this car anymore, let me abandon it right in the middle of the street. Hey Bud, Give me money
so i can walk into this Car Dealership and buy another team?

hold2dibber
01-09-2003, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by daver
Perhaps you have forgotten who own's the Marlins?

Jeff Loria is as sharp as a marble.

Loria uses the Marlins as little more than an excuse to collect a revenue sharing check once a year,and by acquiring Colon he can claim he is trying to improve the team,when in fact he is trying to up his share of the luxury tax money his club will receive.

I didn't say I didn't believe it! Loria certainly ranks right up there among the worst owners in the game.

jeremyb1
01-09-2003, 02:35 PM
regardless whether or not this deal gets done it will apparently still take penny and adrian gonzalez to get a deal for colon done. since that's basically the equivalent of garland and borchard (or at least close to that) i'm really glad we're not involved.

ma-gaga
01-09-2003, 03:02 PM
If Florida gets him, they'll turn around and trade him.

I cannot believe that they'd build their payroll for one year of Colon.

hold2dibber
01-09-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
regardless whether or not this deal gets done it will apparently still take penny and adrian gonzalez to get a deal for colon done. since that's basically the equivalent of garland and borchard (or at least close to that) i'm really glad we're not involved.

Agreed.

Hullett_Fan
01-09-2003, 03:30 PM
regardless whether or not this deal gets done it will apparently still take penny and adrian gonzalez to get a deal for colon done. since that's basically the equivalent of garland and borchard (or at least close to that) i'm really glad we're not involved.

I'd definitely trade Malone (or any other 1-2 pitchers outside of Buerhle, Garland, Rauch & Honel) along with Lee for Colon.

MarkEdward
01-09-2003, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Hullett_Fan
I'd definitely trade Malone (or any other 1-2 pitchers outside of Buerhle, Garland, Rauch & Honel) along with Lee for Colon.

But Jeremy's point is that Garland and Borchard are equivalents of Penny and Gonzalez. I don't think the Expos would take Malone and Lee.

Hullett_Fan
01-09-2003, 03:44 PM
But Jeremy's point is that Garland and Borchard are equivalents of Penny and Gonzalez. I don't think the Expos would take Malone and Lee.


I can see how Garland and Penny are equivalents (even though there are questions about Penny's health).

Lee is better than Gonzalez and Borchard who are both unproven at this point (but have upsides).

If you give Expos Malone and Stewart...that more than outdoes the Marlins offer.

That being said...
If I read article correctly wouldn't Penny go to Reds and Expos would receive a minor league pitcher from Cincy???

MarkEdward
01-09-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Hullett_Fan
I can see how Garland and Penny are equivalents (even though there are questions about Penny's health).

I'd probably take Garland over Penny. Brad's arm was really abused last year.

Lee is better than Gonzalez and Borchard who are both unproven at this point (but have upsides).

And GMs look for the player with the bigger upside, which Borchard has over Calos Lee (more athletic, power-hitting centerfielder).

If you give Expos Malone and Stewart...that more than outdoes the Marlins offer.
That being said...
If I read article correctly wouldn't Penny go to Reds and Expos would receive a minor league pitcher from Cincy???

Your trade:
Expos get Malone, Stewart (didn't include him in your first post, and Lee.

Proposed trade:
Expos get Blaine Neal, Adrian Gonzalez, and Don Levinski.
Neal may turn out to be a decent reliever, Gonzalez is a stud, and Levinski had a great year in single-A at age 20.

If I'm Minyana, I'd take the Marlins' deal.

hold2dibber
01-09-2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Your trade:
Expos get Malone, Stewart (didn't include him in your first post, and Lee.

Proposed trade:
Expos get Blaine Neal, Adrian Gonzalez, and Don Levinski.
Neal may turn out to be a decent reliever, Gonzalez is a stud, and Levinski had a great year in single-A at age 20.

If I'm Minyana, I'd take the Marlins' deal.

Also, Lee will make about $4.5 million next year, so that deal would only clear about $3.5 million of payroll for the Expos, whereas the Marlins deal would clear much more.

MarkEdward, just out of curiousity, how would you compare the reported Marlins deal with a Sox offer of Biddle, Munoz, Harris and Malone? How about Biddle, Webster, Stewart and Honel?

Daver
01-09-2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Also, Lee will make about $4.5 million next year, so that deal would only clear about $3.5 million of payroll for the Expos, whereas the Marlins deal would clear much more.

MarkEdward, just out of curiousity, how would you compare the reported Marlins deal with a Sox offer of Biddle, Munoz, Harris and Malone? How about Biddle, Webster, Stewart and Honel?

At this point Biddle is probably untradeable until he proves he is completely healthy.

hold2dibber
01-09-2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by daver
At this point Biddle is probably untradeable until he proves he is completely healthy. \

I don't remember hearing any reports last year that he was still having problems. Any reason to think he's not completely healed?

Daver
01-09-2003, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
\

I don't remember hearing any reports last year that he was still having problems. Any reason to think he's not completely healed?

He was used sparingly last year,as his rehab was not 100%, he will have to prove he can take the ball every five days before any team would be willing to take him in a trade.

hold2dibber
01-09-2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by daver
He was used sparingly last year,as his rehab was not 100%, he will have to prove he can take the ball every five days before any team would be willing to take him in a trade.

Yet another reason why the Sox absolutely must obtain another starter (and I'm not talking about upgrading by trading one starter for another) - right now, we only have 5 guys in the entire organization who are or may be ready to start in the majors (Buehrle, Garland, Wright, Rauch and Biddle). If one (or more) of these guys get hurt or fails (which is extremely likely), what then?

Daver
01-09-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Yet another reason why the Sox absolutely must obtain another starter (and I'm not talking about upgrading by trading one starter for another) - right now, we only have 5 guys in the entire organization who are or may be ready to start in the majors (Buehrle, Garland, Wright, Rauch and Biddle). If one (or more) of these guys get hurt or fails (which is extremely likely), what then?

Pray for rain.

Lip Man 1
01-09-2003, 05:59 PM
The Sporting News radio network is reporting that the trade of Colon to Florida and Penny to the Reds is DONE. CONTINGENT upon Penny passing a Reds physical. Cincinnati according to the story, has requested Penny's medical records from the Marlins.

So...

The Sox have already been embarassed this off season by the woebegone Devil Rays getting one of the top managers in the game, now the hapless Marlins are getting a top pitcher while the Sox continue to scratch their asses.

Pretty funny!

White Sox baseball--We still give a damn, though only God knows why!

Lip

MarkEdward
01-09-2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber

MarkEdward, just out of curiousity, how would you compare the reported Marlins deal with a Sox offer of Biddle, Munoz, Harris and Malone? How about Biddle, Webster, Stewart and Honel?

Well, I agree with Daver that Biddle is worth pretty much nothing on the trade block.

That said, if I'm Omar, I'd probably take your first offer. I'd take your second offer in an instant.

jeremyb1
01-10-2003, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by daver
He was used sparingly last year,as his rehab was not 100%, he will have to prove he can take the ball every five days before any team would be willing to take him in a trade.

i agree that biddle's value wouldn't be particularly high because he's had arm trouble several times in his career but i disagree with the notion that he's completely "untradeable" simply because he's a year removed from arm surgery. clearly if we offered him for a fringe prospect most clubs would take that in a heart beat. also, its not like no team has ever acquired a pitcher a year off of arm surgery before.

hold2dibber
01-10-2003, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i agree that biddle's value wouldn't be particularly high because he's had arm trouble several times in his career but i disagree with the notion that he's completely "untradeable" simply because he's a year removed from arm surgery. clearly if we offered him for a fringe prospect most clubs would take that in a heart beat. also, its not like no team has ever acquired a pitcher a year off of arm surgery before.

I think Daver's point was that he certainly won't be the centerpiece of any deal for a starter that can step in and help now. And assuming that's true (and I think it is), I wouldn't trade him for a fringe prospect (not that you were suggesting they should do so) because I still have a lot of confidence in Biddle. If he's healthy and he's our no. 5 starter, I think he'd probably be about the best no. 5 in the league (except, of course for the Yankees, for whom Roger friggin' Clemens is probably their no. 5). In September of last year, Biddle had 5 starts and went 2-1 with a 3.20 ERA, allowing a .228 BAA and giving up just 21 hits in 25.1 IP. I know Sept. numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, but I think its possible that those results reflect Rocky's arm getting back to normal strength.