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View Full Version : Murray and Carter to Cooperstown


Dadawg_77
01-07-2003, 01:11 PM
http://espn.go.com/classic/s/2003/0107/1488588.html

The Hawk got more votes then Ryno did. LOL

WhiteSoxWinner
01-07-2003, 01:17 PM
Wait a minute. How can Dawson and Ryno get the same number of votes, but different percentages?

:hizzoner

I can explain that, but it would take to long. Just know that it has something to do with votes in Chicago counting differently. (Wink wink)


As a side note, sadly, Mitch Williams will not be on any future ballots.

ozzman
01-07-2003, 01:34 PM
if you read the article it says that ryno only got 244 votes, not the 248 it has listed in the table. who cares how many votes he got, he didnt get in. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

TAKE THAT SCRUBS FANS

Iwritecode
01-07-2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
Wait a minute. How can Dawson and Ryno get the same number of votes, but different percentages?

:hizzoner

I can explain that, but it would take to long. Just know that it has something to do with votes in Chicago counting differently. (Wink wink)


As a side note, sadly, Mitch Williams will not be on any future ballots.

According to this (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20030107&content_id=190042&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp) Dawson got 4 more votes. Which would be the reason for the .8% difference between the two...

RKMeibalane
01-07-2003, 01:57 PM
I'm glad Sandberg didn't get in. Otherwise, we would have had to put up with Cubs bias from the Chicago media again.

pudge
01-07-2003, 01:59 PM
Okay, I dislike the Scrubs as much as the next guy sitting in a Comiskey seat, but there's no point in lauging at this. I think the HOF process is what's laughable. Let's face it, Sandberg is going to make it eventually, especially if Gary freakin' Carter can make it on six tries. And Sandberg was a delight to watch... as much as I wanted the Cubs to lose, he was a marvel defensively, and he always seemed to come through with a clutch hit or homerun (sure, they were often cheap Wrigley-basket homers, but hey, you can't blame a guy for that).

What I want to get back to is the absurb HOF process. Is the guy a HOF'er or not? Is he more of a HOF'er after one try, or after six tries? It's a joke. I remember Fisk didn't make it his first time, which was dumb. Just my mini rant. Thanks for listening.

MarkEdward
01-07-2003, 02:11 PM
What's with all the hate toward Sandberg? He was a great player, and definitely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. It's a travesty that Sutter, Dawson, and Rice got more votes than Sandberg.

hold2dibber
01-07-2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
What's with all the hate toward Sandberg? He was a great player, and definitely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. It's a travesty that Sutter, Dawson, and Rice got more votes than Sandberg.

I hate Sandberg, but I do think he should be in. I also think Sutter should be in. Dawson should not be allowed anywhere in the tri-county area surrounding Cooperstown.

kermittheefrog
01-07-2003, 02:45 PM
Who the hell voted for Fernando Valenzuela?

Blueprint1
01-07-2003, 02:45 PM
I think that Sandburg should eventully become a Hall of Famer. I know as a Sox fan I should not want him to get in but I would have to say that 9 gold gloves and a bat should get a player in. I would like that think that maybe Ventura would become a Hall of Famer one day. I think his Bat might be about the same plus he plays third which is a more difficult positoin.

Dadawg_77
01-07-2003, 02:50 PM
On the Internet Hall of Fame balloting over at Baseball Prospectus.com, I voted for Keith Hernandez just because spitter on the grassy knoll. So the people with the real ballots probably base a few voted on stuff like that.

kermittheefrog
01-07-2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Blueprint1
I think that Sandburg should eventully become a Hall of Famer. I know as a Sox fan I should not want him to get in but I would have to say that 9 gold gloves and a bat should get a player in. I would like that think that maybe Ventura would become a Hall of Famer one day. I think his Bat might be about the same plus he plays third which is a more difficult positoin.

So as Sox fans we're supposed to not want deserving Cubs players to make the hall? That sure is odd sounding to me.

Also along the lines of my last post. While 31 people voting for Fernando Valenzuela is a crime. Whoe voted for Vince Coleman? The guy was only a regular for six seasons, had a lifetime BA of .264 and no walks or power to go with it. Yeesh. I really don't understand what goes on in the voters heads.

Nonetheless I think the BWAA does a good job of selecting hall of famers overall. They are tough, and certainly don't elect guys that don't deserve enshrinement. They just need to get Bert Blyleven in there. It's the Veterans Commitee that screws things up in the first place. Their job is to put in guys the BWAA didn't deem good enough. Thats just setting up a system to elect players who aren't qualified.

jortafan
01-07-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
What's with all the hate toward Sandberg? He was a great player, and definitely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. It's a travesty that Sutter, Dawson, and Rice got more votes than Sandberg.

The REAL travesty is that Rich Gossage got fewer votes than any of them. Gossage, along with Sutter, were among the best relief pitchers ever. If only our team had had the sense to hang on to him, the Comiskey scene would have been a lot more pleasant to watch back in the late 70s and early 80s.

Insofar as Sandberg is concerned, who cares? Cubbie fans are still going to be annoying as hell when Ron Santo gets in, unless the veterans committee gets hung up over whether Santo or Gil Hodges is most deserving (a real possibility I understand). Personally, I think if they had any sense, they'd go with Minnie Minoso and Dick Allen.

MarkEdward
01-07-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog

Also along the lines of my last post. While 31 people voting for Fernando Valenzuela is a crime. Whoe voted for Vince Coleman? The guy was only a regular for six seasons, had a lifetime BA of .264 and no walks or power to go with it. Yeesh. I really don't understand what goes on in the voters heads.


Well, he did have three seasons with 100+ stolen bases, so I guess I could see someone voting for him.

I'm more surprised that Danny Tartabull got one vote and Mickey Tettleton got none.

34rancher
01-07-2003, 04:48 PM
What I don't understand is how the Cubs could have all of these Hall of Fame candidates and still SUCK? I mean that 69 team has three already in. By adding Santo (a great guy by the way) they would have 4 on one team. You mean to tell me that with 4 HOF players, they still could not make the playoffs? Can you say that maby, just maybe that the Cubs players were not as good as they were perpetuated to be? Maybe playing in a sandbox can pad stats?

RKMeibalane
01-07-2003, 04:51 PM
It's not that I don't want Sandberg to get into the HOF. He was a great player, and I think he will make it eventually. However, I am glad that he did not make it during his first year of elegibility.

There are several players who posted better numbers than Sandberg who have yet to be elected, in spite of the fact that they have waited years. If Sandberg had gotten in, I would have been convinced that a "Cubbie bias" exists in the national media, as well as the Chicago media.

Echoing a point made earler, I am surprised at the incompetence of the voters. Indeed, who in the world voted for Vince Coleman. That man once wounded someone by throwing a firecracker. Furthermore, he was only a productive player for the first few years of his career. After he left St. Louis, his career went downhill. His years with the Mets were laughable. His biggest contribution to those teams was becoming involved in a shoving match with Jeff Torborg.

DrCrawdad
01-07-2003, 06:13 PM
Ryne Sandberg not elected into the Baseball Hall of Fame.

O-Blah-Di-O-Blad-Da Life Goes On...

Daver
01-07-2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Ryne Sandberg not elected into the Baseball Hall of Fame.

O-Blah-Di-O-Blad-Da Life Goes On...


I think we have a rule against quoting truly awful Beatles songs,I'll have to look for it.........

:)

DrCrawdad
01-07-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by daver
I think we have a rule against quoting truly awful Beatles songs,I'll have to look for it.........

:)

Good point. It is a silly love song.

vegyrex
01-07-2003, 07:38 PM
Oh gee, Ryno didn't make it in HOF on the first ballot? I'm really sorry to hear that. :D: :smile:

Flubbie fans are pissed, hehehehe. Poor chumps.

Lip Man 1
01-07-2003, 07:45 PM
Jortafan beat me to it, but his point is well taken. Let's not laugh very loud, since Minnie, Billy Pierce and Goose didn't get in.

Lip

Tragg
01-07-2003, 08:39 PM
Sandberg certainly deserves the Hall of Fame. If they put Kirby Puckett in...

vegyrex
01-08-2003, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Jortafan beat me to it, but his point is well taken. Let's not laugh very loud, since Minnie, Billy Pierce and Goose didn't get in.

Lip

It's not a given Minnie, Billy, and Goose will get in. Sandberg is pretty much a lock to get in. Just not first ballot. I didn't think he would. Playing for loosing flubbie teams all his career makes him a 3rd or 4th ballot inductee.

Dan H
01-08-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
What's with all the hate toward Sandberg? He was a great player, and definitely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. It's a travesty that Sutter, Dawson, and Rice got more votes than Sandberg.

I don't hate Sandberg even though I don't buy the milk and cookies image the Chicago media presents of him. What I really don't like is Cub fans whining about him not getting into the Hall the first time. Many deserving players don't get in the first time, and I don't think it is a big deal.

I rarely listen to sports talk radio, but I knew Murph and Fred would be crying in their beer about this one. I only listened for a few minutes (it was all I could take) and they didn't disappoint. They were angered at the first time selection of Murray, and Fred said that Murray was a marginal choice for a first time selection. Eddie Murray had 504 homers, over 3,000 hits and almost 2,000 Rbis, and that is marginal? What planet are they living on?

Along with the Cubune's shameless shilling for Sandberg, this is too much. Tommy John has over 280 wins, came back from career threatening surgery to do this, and he is not in. People can debate about countless others. Ryno is not alone.

This is no injustice by any means. Instead of sobbing over the Rynester, Cub fans should be asking why their team hasn't been to a World Series since the end of World War II.

DrCrawdad
01-08-2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Dan H
I don't hate Sandberg even though I don't buy the milk and cookies image the Chicago media presents of him. What I really don't like is Cub fans whining about him not getting into the Hall the first time. Many deserving players don't get in the first time, and I don't think it is a big deal...

As I mentioned previously, so Ryne wasn't selected in the first go round. No doubt Ryne will be put in later, maybe even next year. So it's not as though this was Ryne's last shot at the HOF.

No doubt this Ryne HOF matter will inspire endless bellyaching for the Cub broadcasters in'03. They'll be sure to be cameras focused on Wrigley fans calling for Ryne & Ron to be selected for the HOF. Yawn...

TornLabrum
01-08-2003, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Dan H
I don't hate Sandberg even though I don't buy the milk and cookies image the Chicago media presents of him. What I really don't like is Cub fans whining about him not getting into the Hall the first time. Many deserving players don't get in the first time, and I don't think it is a big deal.

I rarely listen to sports talk radio, but I knew Murph and Fred would be crying in their beer about this one. I only listened for a few minutes (it was all I could take) and they didn't disappoint. They were angered at the first time selection of Murray, and Fred said that Murray was a marginal choice for a first time selection. Eddie Murray had 504 homers, over 3,000 hits and almost 2,000 Rbis, and that is marginal? What planet are they living on?

Along with the Cubune's shameless shilling for Sandberg, this is too much. Tommy John has over 280 wins, came back from career threatening surgery to do this, and he is not in. People can debate about countless others. Ryno is not alone.

The beef about Murray, according to Murph, was that he never contributed to any of his team's wins with his glove. "The so-called experts want a team of 9 DH's."

This is no injustice by any means. Instead of sobbing over the Rynester, Cub fans should be asking why their team hasn't been to a World Series since the end of World War II.