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View Full Version : Buehrle rejects multiyear Sox offer


Unregistered
01-06-2003, 10:15 PM
As per chicagosports.com
Buehrle Looking forward to being a Cardinal... (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-030105sox,0,3219553.story?coll=cs%2Dhome%2Dheadlin es)

nut_stock
01-06-2003, 10:19 PM
I 'd be curious to know what it would take to get him too sign.

Unregistered
01-06-2003, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by nut_stock
I 'd be curious to know what it would take to get him too sign. How bout a red and white jersey with a little bird holding a bat?

Daver
01-06-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by nut_stock
I 'd be curious to know what it would take to get him too sign.

Obviously a better set of numbers. :redneck

Why do I see a repeat of the Jack Mcdowell situation all over again..............

nut_stock
01-06-2003, 10:28 PM
Didn't HSC or someone else say they used to tailgate with the Buehrle's????

It's obvious that he wants to play for the Card's but Im sure he'd sign an extension here for the right price. He's got to know that he'll probably have a long career and doesn't have to rush over to the Cards.

nixsox
01-06-2003, 11:10 PM
I don't blame him for wanting to play for St. Louis. Which organization would you want to play for? :sellreinsy

hold2dibber
01-06-2003, 11:24 PM
You guys are missing the point. According to the report, the Sox were offering a three year deal ('03, '04 and '05). Buehrle is under the Sox control through '06 anyway. So accepting the deal wouldn't have had any impact whatsoever on when or if he becomes a free agent. Rejecting the deal was NOT an indication that he wants to leave. It is an indication that he simply thinks he can make more through arbitration than the Sox were offering. With that said, I'm sure the Sox b.s., low class effort to jerk him around by reducing their offer last off season doesn't sit particularly well with Buehrle. I would also add that they are, according to the report, offering less years and less money than the Indians gave to Sabathia, despite the fact that Buehrle has been much better than Sabathia over the last two years:

Buehrle career stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=6525)
Sabathia career stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=6603)

Lip Man 1
01-06-2003, 11:45 PM
Knowing the Sox front office and what Williams said a few weeks ago on WSCR is anybody really surprised at this?

"Meet Me In St. Loouie, Louie..."

You reap what you sow, the Sox thought it was worth it to jack around their best pitcher by cutting him fifteen grand last Spring, now it's Buehrle holding the hammer.

I remember some of the writers speculating that what the Sox tried to prove probably wasn't the smartest thing to do.

It's actually pretty funny in a way.

Lip

Tragg
01-07-2003, 01:13 AM
The Sox offered him CC Sabathia money. I mean, come on. Today, he's a top 10 starter in the AL; before that putative contract expires he may be top 2 or 3. 3 years for a total of 8 million is not market wage for that level of pitcher. so he waits - so would I with that weak offer.

jeremyb1
01-07-2003, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
You guys are missing the point. According to the report, the Sox were offering a three year deal ('03, '04 and '05). Buehrle is under the Sox control through '06 anyway. So accepting the deal wouldn't have had any impact whatsoever on when or if he becomes a free agent.

i agree. i don't mean to downplay the situation but forgive me if i'm the only one that's not alarmed that buehrle might leave as a free agent in four years. obviously i want buehrle to stay past that date very badly, but four years is a really, really long time in baseball, especially for a pitcher. most free agent pitchers only sign 4-5 year deals max so i view this as comperable to signing a free agent and immediately becoming beside onself with concern that the pitcher will leave when his deal is up. if buehrle leaves in four years i'll certainly be dissapointed but his carreer will be at least half way over by then. if he's truly set on leaving at that point there's not much we can do and it'll be dissapointing but i'm not going to lose sleep over it four years before it becomes an issue. personally i'm much more concerned he'll become injured or something (knock on wood) in the next four years since that would affect us in the near future and not in four years.

hold2dibber
01-07-2003, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
The Sox offered him CC Sabathia money. I mean, come on. Today, he's a top 10 starter in the AL; before that putative contract expires he may be top 2 or 3. 3 years for a total of 8 million is not market wage for that level of pitcher. so he waits - so would I with that weak offer.

But that misses the point. Sabathia, as well as guys like Mulder and Zito and Hudson, all took deals below "market level" because they have no leverage. The correct comparison for Buehrle is not what a free agent pitcher can get on the open market, it is what other pitchers with comparable success with a comparable level of service time (and therefore still under the complete control of their teams) are making. What the Sox are offering is in line with what Sabathia earns. Zito has a three year deal that will pay him a total of $8.4 million through the '05 season, with a team option for $7 million in '06. Mulder is signed for $13 million through '05 with a team option of $7.25 million for '06. Hudson is getting $13.5 million through '05. In my opinion, based on these numbers, the Sox are low-balling im to some extent. I would think a four year, $14 million deal, or something along those lines, would make sense.

soxtalker
01-07-2003, 11:17 AM
Four years is a long time in baseball. If I'm in Buerhle's shoes, I probably have to take into account that the GM will likely change before then -- and maybe even the ownership!

hold2dibber
01-07-2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Four years is a long time in baseball. If I'm in Buerhle's shoes, I probably have to take into account that the GM will likely change before then -- and maybe even the ownership!

Deeppink for pipe dreams, soxtalker.

pudge
01-07-2003, 03:24 PM
Who even cares? So Buehrle goes to arbitration each year. We have him through 2006. That's four long years. If the Sox can't build a winner around him in that time span, they don't deserve to have him past 2006 anyway. And who knows what kind of pitcher he'll be in four years.

RedPinStripes
01-07-2003, 06:46 PM
Either Buehrle was looking for a 4 year deal or he's just being a jagoff right back to KW for last year's deal.

RedPinStripes
01-07-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by nut_stock
Didn't HSC or someone else say they used to tailgate with the Buehrle's????



I tailgated with them and met his agent. Not sure if he still has the same agent or not, but this guy's main concern was getting Sabathia type money last year. Unless Mark wanted the 4 year deal, i dont know why he rejected it unless he's getting payback as i posted previously.

Gargamelle
01-07-2003, 09:44 PM
What's all this Buehrle & the Cardinals stuff? Did he actually say he wanted to play for the Cards someday? I think I might've missed something...can someone fill me in please?

nut_stock
01-07-2003, 10:21 PM
Mark was honored durring a St. Louis regional athletic banquet. He's from St. Charles, Missouri. Walt Jocketty was there and Mark asked him if there was any way he could get him over here. He later commented to the press that he was just joking and he didn't mean right now. He stated he grew up a Cards fan and some day down the road he'd like to play for them.

SouthSideHitman
01-07-2003, 11:53 PM
I think that for a late Xmas present, we should all get KW and Jerry copies of How to Win Friends and Influence People although I hated he treated Pudge, at least he was on his way out. Why would they quibble over a few thousand with one of the best starters in the game and the only good one we got?

Lip Man 1
01-07-2003, 11:57 PM
Because it's Uncle Jerry's way of showing everyone who's boss, who's in control.

Remember this is HIS franchise, not the fans, not the city's, not the players, not the media's and not the agent's. And by God he's going to show everybody the RIGHT way of doing things! (LOL)

Sort of like the original Mayor Daley.

Lip

Daver
01-07-2003, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by SouthSideHitman
I think that for a late Xmas present, we should all get KW and Jerry copies of How to Win Friends and Influence People although I hated he treated Pudge, at least he was on his way out. Why would they quibble over a few thousand with one of the best starters in the game and the only good one we got?

This has nothing to do with management and everything to do with Mark's agent,they turned down a more than fair deal,to push arbitration,Mark is gambling his health against guaranteed money.Blaming management on this one is pointless.

Tragg
01-08-2003, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by daver
This has nothing to do with management and everything to do with Mark's agent,they turned down a more than fair deal,to push arbitration,Mark is gambling his health against guaranteed money.Blaming management on this one is pointless.

You don't think that 8-9 for 3 years is a bit light for MB? Hell, we played clayton 50% more than that.

michigan84
01-08-2003, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by nut_stock
Mark was honored durring a St. Louis regional athletic banquet. He's from St. Charles, Missouri. Walt Jocketty was there and Mark asked him if there was any way he could get him over here. He later commented to the press that he was just joking and he didn't mean right now. He stated he grew up a Cards fan and some day down the road he'd like to play for them.

Well get him out then! If he is already saying he wants to play for St. Louis, he is sure to do so when it is free agent time. I don't care if he means now or in four years. He is stupid to say things like that and it is inappropriate because he is in the Sox organization. I think those comments are disrespectful to the Sox fans and management. He should at least try and pretend he wants to play here.

Secondly, do you really think Reinsdorf will pay him big bucks in a contract or arbitration? Reinsdorf has already shown that he won't make big financial commitments to pitchers. And Bueherle is not stupid, he will want the most money he can make. Unpopular as it may be, Lenny might deal him in the next couple of years because of cheap Reinsdorf and his desire to play for the Cardinals which he will surely act upon come free agent time.

hold2dibber
01-08-2003, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by daver
This has nothing to do with management and everything to do with Mark's agent,they turned down a more than fair deal,to push arbitration,Mark is gambling his health against guaranteed money.Blaming management on this one is pointless.

At first I thought I agreed with this assesment, but then I thought it over some more, and now I disagree. I agree that the reported offer (3 years for about $8 million) is competive with other similarly situated pitchers. But it is less. It is less money and less years than Sabathia, Hudson, Zito and Mulder signed for. I would suggest that Mark is definitely better than Sabathia and comparable to the other guys. I think a 4 year (after all, he's in Sox control for four more years anyway) deal for $12 million would have gotten it done. That would surpass Sabathia's deal and get him in the same general ball park as Mulder and Hudson.

I also think that you have to consider the impact made on the current negotiations, by the Sox' bush league tactics in decreasing their offer to Buehrle last off season at the last second. They jerked him around, just for the sake of showing him who's boss. That is certainly going to have an impact going forward on the player's perception of the organization and of management, and is going to color future negotiations.

In sum, the Sox offer was fair, but it wasn't really as good as it should have been, and in light of how they treated him last off season, I don't think it is surprising that Buehrle passed.

hold2dibber
01-08-2003, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by michigan84
Well get him out then! If he is already saying he wants to play for St. Louis, he is sure to do so when it is free agent time. I don't care if he means now or in four years. He is stupid to say things like that and it is inappropriate because he is in the Sox organization. I think those comments are disrespectful to the Sox fans and management. He should at least try and pretend he wants to play here.

First of all, the comment was intended to be a private comment, but a reporter overheard him. I don't think he showed a lot of discretion, but it's not like he went on the radio and announced his desire to the world.

Originally posted by michigan84
Secondly, do you really think Reinsdorf will pay him big bucks in a contract or arbitration? Reinsdorf has already shown that he won't make big financial commitments to pitchers. And Bueherle is not stupid, he will want the most money he can make. Unpopular as it may be, Lenny might deal him in the next couple of years because of cheap Reinsdorf and his desire to play for the Cardinals which he will surely act upon come free agent time.

Well, actually, Reinsdorf has indicated an unwillingness to offer long term contracts to pitchers. But that doesn't mean he will trade Buehrle if he gets a big one year deal via arbitration. See Wells, David as the most recent example of Reinsdorf signing off on a big one year salary for a top of the rotation starter. And what would you have the Sox do, anyway? We're already extremely thin in the starting pitching department, so trading our best starter doesn't seem like the best idea, particularly when, no matter his wishes, he can't play for anyone else until the 2007 season. Hell, if we traded away every guy who doesn't want to play for Reinsdorf, we'd be left with Harold Baines and Jerry Krause as the only guys on our roster.

Paulwny
01-08-2003, 09:40 AM
With the exception of a few players most contract offers this year are less then the players expected.
This offer is hard to call.

Lip Man 1
01-08-2003, 02:08 PM
This was in the Quick Hits section of the Sun Times on Wednesday:

"The White Sox play a little hardball with left-hander Mark Buehrle during contract talks. Which usually translates into the prized performer not playing hardball for the Sox when he has an opportunity to depart."

Sad but true...it's happened before and it's going to happen again. You can count on it!

Lip