PDA

View Full Version : Chuck Finley, Jeff Suppan, or nobody


lowesox
01-02-2003, 11:03 PM
The way I see it, these may be the last two good pitchers left in the FA market. I think KW doesn't realize that he can sign free agent pitchers. He always seems to try to make a spectacular trade. One of these guys would be a pretty good fit for the Sox right now. Especially if they were able to sign Lieber as well. It's funny but it seems as though KW isn't really going after anybody. Has he maybe been on holidays the last few weeks?

I also think a trade for Griffey Junior is worth exploring. I'd offer up Lee or Rauch. I think KW has to get WAY tougher though when it comes to trading. Offer an interesting guy like Rauch then let it simmer with the other GM for a bit. Griffey would do the Sox wonders in attendence, would make for a slight defensive upgrade (Rowand to LF), and I think he's still capable of .300, 30, 120. Wouldn't he be an interesting addition to the lineup? That is, if he can stay healthy. A guy like Griffey, who has so much to prove, could be very, very dangerous.

MarkEdward
01-02-2003, 11:49 PM
1. Ismael Valdez
2. Jeff Suppan
3. Chuck Finley

Why didn't you include Valdez?

jeremyb1
01-03-2003, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
The way I see it, these may be the last two good pitchers left in the FA market. I think KW doesn't realize that he can sign free agent pitchers. He always seems to try to make a spectacular trade. One of these guys would be a pretty good fit for the Sox right now. Especially if they were able to sign Lieber as well. It's funny but it seems as though KW isn't really going after anybody. Has he maybe been on holidays the last few weeks?

I also think a trade for Griffey Junior is worth exploring. I'd offer up Lee or Rauch. I think KW has to get WAY tougher though when it comes to trading. Offer an interesting guy like Rauch then let it simmer with the other GM for a bit. Griffey would do the Sox wonders in attendence, would make for a slight defensive upgrade (Rowand to LF), and I think he's still capable of .300, 30, 120. Wouldn't he be an interesting addition to the lineup? That is, if he can stay healthy. A guy like Griffey, who has so much to prove, could be very, very dangerous.

1. valdes
2. paul wilson
3. suppan
4. nothing
5. kenny rogers (although i'd put him last on the list when taking into account how much money he wants)
6. robert person
7. jeff d'amico
8. brian moehler
9. finley

after valdes these guys are all basically huge question marks. suppan can be counted on but not for much more than a 5.00 era and 200 innings, a 4.7 era if we're lucky. i decided to give paul wilson the benefit of the doubt since he's had some good streaks and has been pitching for tampa bay. all of these other guys are either old as dirt or have serious injury questions. this is what we're left with at this point...

nut_stock
01-03-2003, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by lowesox


I also think a trade for Griffey Junior is worth exploring. I'd offer up Lee or Rauch. Griffey would do the Sox wonders in attendence, would make for a slight defensive upgrade (Rowand to LF), and I think he's still capable of .300, 30, 120. Wouldn't he be an interesting addition to the lineup? That is, if he can stay healthy. A guy like Griffey, who has so much to prove, could be very, very dangerous.


He makes in the neighborhood of 12 million a year. And unless he starts out on fire, I really don't see him as much of a draw anymore. At one time he was perhaps the best player in baseball, but he hasn't shown much the past few years. I'm not saying he can't come back but at 12 million, I'd pass.

kermittheefrog
01-03-2003, 12:44 AM
I had completely forgotten about Suppan until a little while ago. I think he's actually a better option than Valdes who I'd been touting. They've been similarly effective over the last 3-4 years but Suppan is younger and his health track record is better.

OEO Magglio
01-03-2003, 01:25 AM
I still like Valdes as the best of the fa's left, I think if he doesn't have those stupid blisters on his hand he's a good pitcher, I wouldn't mind having suppan, person, or finley either, I would like for the Sox to pick up one of them, that way at the end of the rotation you got Garland, Wright, Rauch, and then put Biddle in the pen, and I think he'll improve the pen even more, and I like those three at the end of the rotation.

Jjav829
01-03-2003, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1

3. nothing


:KW
"I like him. We're looking forward to signing nothing and bringing nothing in to help improve our ballclub."

jeremyb1
01-03-2003, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829
:KW
"I like him. We're looking forward to signing nothing and bringing nothing in to help improve our ballclub."

what, now bargain basement free agents have never been known to hurt a club? would signing randy velarde to play second improve our team? not unless he can outperform jimenez. moves are counter productive if they take playing time from a player in favor of another lesser player. remember jamie navarro? i don't think that rauch and biddle are so bad that any major league pitcher that's a free agent is automatically better.

jeremyb1
01-03-2003, 04:29 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I had completely forgotten about Suppan until a little while ago. I think he's actually a better option than Valdes who I'd been touting. They've been similarly effective over the last 3-4 years but Suppan is younger and his health track record is better.

i was all set to disagree with you but looking at suppan's numbers they are better than i remembered. while i think the health issue is very important and there are question marks surrounding valdes if you take the two pitchers' career eras, you're looking at 5.03 vs. 3.76. additionally, valdes is coming off of the better season. however, it is a lot closer than i thought especially taking valdes' health concerns into consideration.

kermittheefrog
01-03-2003, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i was all set to disagree with you but looking at suppan's numbers they are better than i remembered. while i think the health issue is very important and there are question marks surrounding valdes if you take the two pitchers' career eras, you're looking at 5.03 vs. 3.76. additionally, valdes is coming off of the better season. however, it is a lot closer than i thought especially taking valdes' health concerns into consideration.

I think the ERA comparison is valid but still really unfair to Suppan. Suppan has pitched in the AL, on bad teams (with bad defense), in hitters parks. Valdes completely the opposite.

I feel like Valdes has more potential to rise above just being a #3 or #4 but Suppan is more likely to give 200 solid innings. It's really a wash, I doubt there will be a significant difference between the two. On age alone I'd take Suppan. I dunno if there is any credence to this myself but I also think it's a bit odd that Valdes has a career record of worse than .500 even though he's pitched for many good teams. I think more research would be in order to see if that means anything of if he's just been unlucky.

hold2dibber
01-03-2003, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by nut_stock
He makes in the neighborhood of 12 million a year. And unless he starts out on fire, I really don't see him as much of a draw anymore. At one time he was perhaps the best player in baseball, but he hasn't shown much the past few years. I'm not saying he can't come back but at 12 million, I'd pass.

At 12 million, I'd pass as well. But if the Sox traded Lee for him, they'd be saving over $4 million. So it would be an $8 million addition. If the Reds are willing to throw in a few million towards that $8 million, or if they're willing to throw in that hot SS prospect they got from Toronto while we toss in Valentin and a prospect (Malone or Ring, for example) the money difference wouldn't be insurmountable. And while I do not believe that adding Griffey would do much for attendance in the short run, I do believe that if healthy, Griffey will put up serious numbers once again. Plus he is a solid fielder and we desparately need a left handed bat in the lineup.

lowesox
01-03-2003, 10:47 AM
1. Jimenez
2. Valentin
3. Thomas
4. Maggs
5. Konerko
6. Griffey
7. Rowand
8. Crede
9. Olivo

That lineup would draw people. I really think that Griffey is going to turn it on next year. And Crede too. I think that makes no's 2 through 8 electric.

I also prefer Suppan over Valdez, only because I still think Suppan is bound to break-out sometime soon. But maybe everybody else has noticed that there are no reports on the Sox being interested in anybody and usually with FA's you hear a little bit of a buzz before they sign. There has been no buzz for anybody - accept of course Todd Ritchie.

FarmerAndy
01-03-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
At 12 million, I'd pass as well. But if the Sox traded Lee for him, they'd be saving over $4 million. So it would be an $8 million addition. If the Reds are willing to throw in a few million towards that $8 million, or if they're willing to throw in that hot SS prospect they got from Toronto while we toss in Valentin and a prospect (Malone or Ring, for example) the money difference wouldn't be insurmountable. And while I do not believe that adding Griffey would do much for attendance in the short run, I do believe that if healthy, Griffey will put up serious numbers once again. Plus he is a solid fielder and we desparately need a left handed bat in the lineup.

Sounds nice, but I think your logic might be a little too complicated for Kenny Williams.

hold2dibber
01-03-2003, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
1. Jimenez
2. Valentin
3. Thomas
4. Maggs
5. Konerko
6. Griffey
7. Rowand
8. Crede
9. Olivo

That lineup would draw people. I really think that Griffey is going to turn it on next year. And Crede too. I think that makes no's 2 through 8 electric.

I also prefer Suppan over Valdez, only because I still think Suppan is bound to break-out sometime soon. But maybe everybody else has noticed that there are no reports on the Sox being interested in anybody and usually with FA's you hear a little bit of a buzz before they sign. There has been no buzz for anybody - accept of course Todd Ritchie.

They would draw only if they won - which they might. That's a damn good lineup (though I would think Griffey would bat fourth or fifth to break up the string of right handed hitters in the heart of the order and Crede would bat ahead of Rowand; I also wouldn't exactly call Rowand an "electric" offensive player - he's below average).

Lip Man 1
01-03-2003, 11:01 AM
I would be very surprised if the Sox did anything. I think they have reached the absolute limit of the budget that was allowed to them by the owner.

Lip

hold2dibber
01-03-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I would be very surprised if the Sox did anything. I think they have reached the absolute limit of the budget that was allowed to them by the owner.

Lip

You may be right. And if so, I would be horrified and disgusted. The Sox have trimmed about $10 million from last year's opening day payroll, they're in a weak division, they have the all star game coming this year and they have a solid core of players right now. Talk about a PERFECT time to up the ante a little, to go out and find a top notch starter to invigorate the players and the fans. These fools can't do anything right.

MarkEdward
01-03-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by lowesox


That lineup would draw people. I really think that Griffey is going to turn it on next year. And Crede too. I think that makes no's 2 through 8 electric.


The year Cincinnati acquired Griffey (2000), the Reds only jumped from 11th to 10th in attendance in the NL. Now, they're back under one million for the past two years.

Winning is a great way to draw fans.

hold2dibber
01-03-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Winning is a great way to draw fans.

:reinsy
"No, no, no, you've got it backwards. Drawing fans is a great way to build a winner - but if the fans don't come first, our hands our tied. Sorry, but you only have yourselves to blame."

jeremyb1
01-03-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
At 12 million, I'd pass as well. But if the Sox traded Lee for him, they'd be saving over $4 million. So it would be an $8 million addition. If the Reds are willing to throw in a few million towards that $8 million, or if they're willing to throw in that hot SS prospect they got from Toronto while we toss in Valentin and a prospect (Malone or Ring, for example) the money difference wouldn't be insurmountable. And while I do not believe that adding Griffey would do much for attendance in the short run, I do believe that if healthy, Griffey will put up serious numbers once again. Plus he is a solid fielder and we desparately need a left handed bat in the lineup.

hmm. that is odd. if you took out his dreadful '00 season he'd only be a game under .500. he had some really good seasons for la, its odd his record wasn't better any of those years.