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doctor30th
12-22-2002, 01:19 AM
I was looking over the list and 6 names caught my eye that I felt would be interesting for the sox to go after:

Jeff D'Amico, Omar Daal, Dustin Hermanson, Ramero Mendoza, Kenny Rogers, & Ismael Valdes.

Now I read that the sox were actively persuing Daal and Valdes, I am not a big fan of Valdes because of his blister problem over the last couple of years.

But if they could get a D'Amico, Hermanson, Rogers or Valdes for a realitively small amount of money say less then say 3-4 million for one year (and I think I'd definitely say keep D'Amico around 2 million or less), I would take the shot with them. Cause if they didn't work, 3-4 million for one year doesn't sting as much to cut.

I doubt hermanson (who is coming off of a groin injury last season) or Rogers would take that little money, or one year contracts, but with the way the free agent market has been working this off season, I would not doubt that the may still be availabe in feb or march, and might be willing to take such a deal.

I think Mendoza would fit in that price range too, but hasn't really started wince 98 and hasn't pitched more that 120 innings since then, And I'm sure he would look for a mulit year deal, which I wouldn't mind if they gave him one, as long as it wasn't over 2 years.

The most expensive of this bunch would definitely be Daal, I would think it would take at least between 5- 7 million, and I'm sure he'd want a mulit year deal in the 3 -4 year range which I'm sure the Sox would not offer.

LongDistanceFan
12-22-2002, 02:44 AM
you forgot a player. person, i think he will do great in a sox uni

doctor30th
12-22-2002, 02:47 AM
I considered him, but I think he was injured last year so I left him off the list.

doctor30th
12-22-2002, 02:53 AM
Ohh, and I do think he'd be a nice addition, but I think he's going to want a 5 million dollar multi - year deal. and last year he vame back from an injury with a touch of inconsitancy.

But again I agree, I would put him above getting Rogers, Valdes, D'Amico and Hermanson.

Thank you for pointing out my error.

kermittheefrog
12-22-2002, 03:34 AM
I think this is the best summary you'll find on this board of the remaining guys available.

Dustin Hermanson - This guy is done like dinner. He's destroyed
by injuries, he pitched 22 innings last year with a 7.77 ERA. The two years before he was a shadow of his former self pitching mediocre. If this guy gets picked up it'll be because someone still remembers him as the guy who won 14 games for the Expos when he was 25 not that guy he is now; who hasn't posted an ERA better than league average since 1999.

Jeff D'Amico - Another guy who is now living off reputation rather than substance because of injuries. I don't think most people realize how bad he was last year because he started the season well. I sure as hell didn't realize it until I looked at his stats. He was 6-10 4.94 ERA in the NL, in a pitchers park. He'll never be near as good as he was in 2000 when he posted a 2.66 ERA in 23 starts.

Ramiro Mendoza - Good pitcher, possibly could be had for less money than he deserves. Might surprise as a starter, I wouldn't mind the Sox giving him a shot. Add him to the list of the guys I like.

Ismael Valdes - Already one of the guys I like, don't understand why so few people are a fan of him. I know he has blister problems but he consistently pitches better than average and has thrown 200 innings or close (by close I mean within 5 IP) five times in eight years as a starter. He gets no respect but he would be a very helpful member of the rotation. Right now his reputation is that he's not as good as he was in LA which is true but he's still a better than average starter. Pat Gillick didn't get him in last years stretch run for nothing.

Omar Daal - OVERRATED! There is no chance this guy will get a 3-4 year deal and the idea that he'll get 5-7 million is laughable. Edgardo Alfonzo was the best third baseman in the NL last year and he got 6 million. Omar Daal wasn't even a starter the whole season and he still posted and ERA near 4 in the NL in the best pitchers park in baseball. He's thrown 200 innings all of once and his career ERA in the NL is 4.40. If he jumped to the AL look for that to be around 5.00. Daal would be a terrible signing as a starter.

Kenny Rogers - I really want to like Kenny Rogers. He's pitched 14 years in the majors, all but three were good. Last year was his first year since 98 when his ERA was under 4. He was a better bet to be good in 2001 than in 2003 and he was terrible in 2003. He came back strong in 2002 but he should have RISK written inbig red letters on his forehead. He's a risky guy for a club with a limited budget. He's significantly far behind Valdes and Mendoza but would be better than the other 3 stiffs listed above.

John Halama - He's one of the guys I like that hasn't really been brought up by others. His career and profile through age 30 isn't that different from Jamie Moyer's although Moyer got a chance to start more games. Moyer didn't really get good until after 30. Halama is the kind of pitcher that defies what stats have found to be the mold for a pitcher who has sustained success. I like Halama, he'd be cheap. The Mariners nontendered him.

Paul Wilson - The Devil Rays non-tendered him. I think talent wise he's comparable to Cory Lidle who the D-Rays let go and the A's turned into baseballs best fourth starter over the last two seasons. He's only a year older than Lidle was when Lidle was freed from baseball hell.

Here's how I like these guys in order

1. Valdes, cream of the crop.
2. Mendoza, next most successful pitcher.
3. Wilson, the guy needs a chance.
4. Halama, next Moyer?
5. Rogers, is there a good year left?
6. Daal, not a complete stiff just yet.
7. D'amico & Hermanson, done like dinner.

There is a significant gap between Valdes and the rest of the group and another significant gap between D'Amico and Hermanson and the real pitchers on the list. I don't actually advocate the Sox signing anyone after Halama. I also like Steve Woodard but I don't think anyone else takes him seriously.

Of course I think Keith Foulke would make a better starter than any of these guys but thats another story.

doctor30th
12-22-2002, 05:07 AM
Ok, great opinions. But Daal really isn't too overrated, and he will get around 6 million, though he probably won't get his 3 years he wants, but he'll most likely get 2 with an option.

Now speaking of overrated, there's Halama. The guy just isn't really a starter. in many aspects when he does start he's alot like Hermanson except not being able to pitch as many innings, he's much better suited for relief. He will be around 2 million dollars though, but considering Cleveland is willing to offer him a multi year deal, and the White Sox are not, it might be hard getting him.

Kenny rogers, is a risk, that's why you only offer him a one year contract, and only get him if he came cheap.

The problem with Valdes is that he doesn't consistantly pitch better than average. From year to year he is a different pitcher. Which one are you going to get the Decent one or the bad one. Pat Gilick got him last year at the break because Halama and Baldwin were not cutting it, and they got him cheap, so he was worth the risk.

And if your willing to offer Wilson a contract (which I would, thanks for reminding me about him, I forgot he was non-tendered yesterday) D'Amico is also worth one. Wilson has a bit of an injury problem too, that's why it took him a while to get up here. D'Amico is younger, and he also hasn't been given a chance and has pitched in hell (brewers and last years mets).

Hermanson is at the very bottom of the list I had, But he is worth a shot if you can get him cheap enough. He is not destroyed by injuries, last year was the first year he had a significant one, he had consistantly pitched close to 200 innings every year since he became a regular starter in 98. gotten cheap enough, he's worth a one year contract.

Completely agree with you on Mendoza.

But my point was, that all of them have their upsides and could be worth the risk for the right contract.

MarkEdward
12-22-2002, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by doctor30th
[B]

The problem with Valdes is that he doesn't consistantly pitch better than average.

Valdez has been consistently above average for seven of his nine seasons. I'm not as high on Valdez as Kermit is, but calling him inconsistent is just not true.

kermittheefrog
12-22-2002, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by doctor30th


And if your willing to offer Wilson a contract (which I would, thanks for reminding me about him, I forgot he was non-tendered yesterday) D'Amico is also worth one. Wilson has a bit of an injury problem too, that's why it took him a while to get up here. D'Amico is younger, and he also hasn't been given a chance and has pitched in hell (brewers and last years mets).


MarkEdward addressed Valdes who if you pay attention consistently posts an ERA better than average.

Wilson and D'Amico are completely different stories. D'Amico has had much more recent and constant injury issues. Wilson has also been more effective, their ERAs were close but thats deceiving since D'Amico pitched in an environment much better for pitches. That is the NL where there is no DH and Shea Stadium, a good pitchers park.

And Omar Daal hasn't done anything to deserve 6 million. I really don't know where you are getting this one. He spent most of the year in the pen and wasn't even an ace releiver.

jeremyb1
12-22-2002, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I think this is the best summary you'll find on this board of the remaining guys available.

Here's how I like these guys in order

1. Valdes, cream of the crop.
2. Mendoza, next most successful pitcher.
3. Wilson, the guy needs a chance.
4. Halama, next Moyer?
5. Rogers, is there a good year left?
6. Daal, not a complete stiff just yet.
7. D'amico & Hermanson, done like dinner.

There is a significant gap between Valdes and the rest of the group and another significant gap between D'Amico and Hermanson and the real pitchers on the list. I don't actually advocate the Sox signing anyone after Halama. I also like Steve Woodard but I don't think anyone else takes him seriously.


good post. i agree with most everything you said except for your thoughts on mendoza. he has a 4.71 era as a starter over the last three seasons (given its only 11 starts) and the yankees supposedly had concerns about his health. also, i agree about daal but i think he's probably better than rogers if only because of his age and halama if only because of his experience. its hard to say though. i don't think any of these pitchers is likely to have a great season next year. wilson may have the best chance after valdes if he really has been stigmatized that badly by playing for the d-rays.

kermittheefrog
12-22-2002, 07:10 PM
I don't think any of these guys will be great but I don't think they have to be. I think the top four guys would be better than average and a lot better than Rocky Biddle. I've given up on the idea of Rocky being good and healthy at the same time even though I do like the guy.