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RKMeibalane
12-21-2002, 01:24 PM
I noticed that Sandy Alomar Jr. was resigned by the Sox yesterday. Just out of curiosity, when the rest of you read about moves like this, do any of you experience flashbacks or terrible nightmares of last season? I do. Right now, I'm having a vision of Alomar trying to stretch a double into a triple against Kansas City and getting thrown out. Does anyone remember this?

RedPinStripes
12-21-2002, 02:11 PM
Ueah, i think of how this team has not improved on the basepaths at all.

Dumbass Caballo, Frank, Sandy, Versitile, Maggs, . All bad baserunners. At least we got rid of Royce. I'm hoping things will be better on teh bases with Pettis and Wally gone.

WinningUgly!
12-22-2002, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I noticed that Sandy Alomar Jr. was resigned by the Sox yesterday. Just out of curiosity, when the rest of you read about moves like this, do any of you experience flashbacks or terrible nightmares of last season? I do. Right now, I'm having a vision of Alomar trying to stretch a double into a triple against Kansas City and getting thrown out. Does anyone remember this? Ugh...Kenny Lofton's probably not far behind.

kermittheefrog
12-22-2002, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I noticed that Sandy Alomar Jr. was resigned by the Sox yesterday. Just out of curiosity, when the rest of you read about moves like this, do any of you experience flashbacks or terrible nightmares of last season? I do. Right now, I'm having a vision of Alomar trying to stretch a double into a triple against Kansas City and getting thrown out. Does anyone remember this?

I have flashbacks to other painful moments in life.

doctor30th
12-22-2002, 01:51 AM
I read somewhere that he isn't guaranteed a roster spot either. That he would have to compete, and if they both (Olivo & Paul) out performed him he could be released.

kermittheefrog
12-22-2002, 02:22 AM
Originally posted by doctor30th
I read somewhere that he isn't guaranteed a roster spot either. That he would have to compete, and if they both (Olivo & Paul) out performed him he could be released.

I'd like to be optimistic but remember when they said that about Harold Baines? Plus he'd probably just get a minor league deal if they didn't expect him to make the club.

doctor30th
12-22-2002, 02:27 AM
minor league deal probably would have cost the same amount, this just save the step of having to sign him to a majors contract if he does prove himself.

kermittheefrog
12-22-2002, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by doctor30th
minor league deal probably would have cost the same amount, this just save the step of having to sign him to a majors contract if he does prove himself.

Thats not how it works dude. A minor league deal would pay him the minimum $300,000 if he made the major leagues and minor league money if he didn't. With a major league deal some (possibly all?) of the cash is guarenteed even if he doesn't make the majors and he'll be making $700,000. I assume he'll retire if he doesn't make the majors but if he doesn't we'd owe him some money.

doctor30th
12-22-2002, 02:38 AM
well forgive me for my confusion. But I'm sure they did want some guurantee if paul or olivo or both didn't quite cut it at first. So they most likely had to sign Alomar to a contract to get him to come back.

Never did I say they didn't want him to make the team, I just said I read he had to compete for the spot. That's why I feel the signed him to the contract. And who knows he might not be guaranteed all that money if he doesn't make the roster.


$700,000 is worth it for securities sake.

kermittheefrog
12-22-2002, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by doctor30th
well forgive me for my confusion. But I'm sure they did want some guurantee if paul or olivo or both didn't quite cut it at first. So they most likely had to sign Alomar to a contract to get him to come back.

Never did I say they didn't want him to make the team, I just said I read he had to compete for the spot. That's why I feel the signed him to the contract. And who knows he might not be guaranteed all that money if he doesn't make the roster.


$700,000 is worth it for securities sake.

But the guy can't help us on any level outside of if you actually believe he can mentor Olivo better than someone like Bruce Kimm even though Kimm was a major league catcher too. I don't think he can do even that. Even if he can mentor Olivo better than anyone else there is available, why make him a player rather than a coach?

Basically I have 3 questions for you Alomar supporters. Why do you think he can help on offense if you think he ccan? Why do you think he can help on defense if you think he can? But if you agree that he doesn't help on offense or D why not make him a coach or find a coach who can mentor Olivo?

doctor30th
12-22-2002, 03:06 AM
Hey, I'm not a huge alomar supporter here, but I see why they brought him back. Will he be the primary catcher? No. Will he improve the Defense? No (he is better than Josh Paul though). Will he improve the Offense? No (he is better than Josh Paul though).

And he can be a mentor to Olivo, because Olivo can't see Bruce Kimm or Art Kushner catch a game. They won't look for Olivo to watch Alomar's defensive ability or His offensive ability, they are just going to have him mentor him in calling a game. That is something Alomar can do relatively well.

But they also said they brought him back because of his ability to communicate with the young pitching staff. To help teach them as well.

I don't know if anyone remembers, but when the put a mic on Alomar for a Fox saturday game, I was very impressed with what he had to say.

kermittheefrog
12-22-2002, 03:51 AM
You completely bungled the question of why he can't be a coach or why not sign a coach who can teach the same stuff. If it's not important what Alomar does on the field why does Olivo need to see it? We've pretty much established Alomar is a stiff behind the plate. You're talking about having him mentor Olivo in the mental aspects of the game and saying Olivo needs a guy to rape our team when in the game as his mentor. Thats ridiculous. We're wasting a roster spot here and commiting to someone who can't hit. I think we should sign Gary Bennett to be backup catcher. I also think I'm done with this argument there isn't a bit of substance in any pro-Alomar argument.

doctor30th
12-22-2002, 04:21 AM
I didn't bungle the question. There is a big difference from having someone tell you how to call a game, and you actually watching the person call the game. To see how he reacts to different pitching situations.

I mean it wasn't exactly clear, but I think a 5 year old could have understood what I meant.

kermittheefrog
12-22-2002, 04:48 AM
Originally posted by doctor30th
I didn't bungle the question. There is a big difference from having someone tell you how to call a game, and you actually watching the person call the game. To see how he reacts to different pitching situations.

I mean it wasn't exactly clear, but I think a 5 year old could have understood what I meant.

Calling a game isn't like swinging a bat, it's a strategy not an action. You don't "watch" someone call a game the way you watch a pitching motion or footwork on the double play. And even if you do think you have to watch someone call a game to learn how to do it yourself you're a fool if you think having Alomar around for this one reason is worth him raping the lineup and the defense. I'm not one of those people who thinks intangibles don't exist but I sure can't stand it when people start justifying players who can't play at all and obviously hurt the team when they are in the lineup with intangibles. And in this specific case it's not some intangible thing that can't come from somewhere else in the organization.

I swear this is my last post on this topic because I dont even believe gamecalling is a skill. It's fluff for columns and quotes. Seriously, even outside of the fact that I've seen an in depth study proving there isn't a game calling skill it just doesn't make a lot of sense. There are scouting reports, the pitcher and catcher know the strengths of the pitcher and opposing batters and strategize with coaches before and during the game. There is so much input from many sides that it essentially eliminates a catcher's chance to have some kind of special effect. Not to mention how many teams give authority on pitch calling to the coaches in the dugout. Considering how many baseball minds go into the process of selecting pitches, the idea that game calling is a skill that catchers need to refine just doesn't hold up. The catcher alone isn't important enough within the process.

doctor30th
12-22-2002, 05:15 AM
Hey I respect your opinoin, it's cool. But I know calling a game is still a skill, and it can be learned. It's not just calling pitches. It involves handling a pitcher, understanding why you want to call certain pitches for certain situations, setting yourself in the proper places to handle pitches, recognizing problems that can't be seen from the dugout, etc. It's complex, and it's not easily dismissed as not a skill.

And still furthermore, Sandy is not guaranteed a roster spot, and Sandy for $700,000 is better security then some of the other catchers on the market, especially when Josh Paul sucks it up in springtraining again.

ScottyTheSoxFan
12-22-2002, 07:23 PM
does olivo understand english? that could be a reason sandy was brought back. i doubt it, but a langauge barrier could have something to do with it. IF he is here to tudor olivo. i could just see JM playing sandy now everyday he is healthy and him batting around .210 or so.

chisox06
12-22-2002, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I noticed that Sandy Alomar Jr. was resigned by the Sox yesterday. Just out of curiosity, when the rest of you read about moves like this, do any of you experience flashbacks or terrible nightmares of last season? I do. Right now, I'm having a vision of Alomar trying to stretch a double into a triple against Kansas City and getting thrown out. Does anyone remember this?

I like the idea just in the fact that I belive Alomar will be more of a coach than a player next year. What better way to help the young guys along than having a hugely expierenced veteran in the clubhouse. I guess it all depends on how the sox utilize Alomar over the season.

MarkEdward
12-22-2002, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by ScottyTheSoxFan
does olivo understand english? that could be a reason sandy was brought back. i doubt it, but a langauge barrier could have something to do with it.

Olivo's been playing baseball in America since 1998, so I'm sure he has a good grasp on the English language.

Champ Summers
12-23-2002, 01:49 AM
Sham-Me has been here since before '90, he doesn't exactly qualify as the poet laureate of the U.S.