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View Full Version : Paul Byrd no longer out there...


OfficerKarkovice
12-17-2002, 01:47 PM
Well take a guess who now even has a stronger rotation.

The Braves (http://www.sportingnews.com/baseball/articles/20021217/445882.html)

Unregistered
12-17-2002, 01:50 PM
Love this last little line: There is still a strong possibility that free-agent righthander Greg Maddux will accept salary arbitration from the Braves, leaving the team with a potential rotation of Maddux, Mike Hampton, Ortiz, Kevin Millwood and Byrd. Good Lord.

MetalliSox
12-17-2002, 01:52 PM
<sigh> Oh, to have an owner that loses talent to FA but then replaces them to the best of his abilities.

nut_stock
12-17-2002, 01:53 PM
After The Sox and the Twinkies, the rest of the division is really going to suck.

OfficerKarkovice
12-17-2002, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
Love this last little line: Good Lord.

Yeah their rotation is going to be rediculous.

hold2dibber
12-17-2002, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
Love this last little line: Good Lord.

Their no. 5 would be our no. 2.

hold2dibber
12-17-2002, 01:56 PM
I'm curious to see how much he's getting from the Braves. The article says he took less than the 3 years, $20 million the Phillies offered. Paul Byrd for $20 million would be, IMHO, a HUGE risk, especially when you could probably get Daal or Valdes for 2 years at $4 million/year and those guys will probably be just as effective as Byrd.

34 Inch Stick
12-17-2002, 02:07 PM
I thought that was the most interesting. He took almost 2 million less per year and 1 less year on the contract. It sounds like he was willing to take anything reasonable from the Braves versus anything any other team would offer.

With the extra ten million dollars I would buy some cheap land in the far off Philadelphia suburbs and create my own Disney version of Apharetta, Georgia.

Jjav829
12-17-2002, 02:31 PM
Can they even afford Maddux now? If they can, without trading a guy like Millwood, that rotation has the potential to be great. Meanwhile KW twiddles his thumbs thinking about a rotation of Buehrle, Garland, Wright, Ritchie, and Rauch or something of the like. Just great. I don't know about everyone else, but I am already optimistic about the 2003 season!

Dadawg_77
12-17-2002, 02:36 PM
The Braves might be forced to take him for one year. This is why players wanted to keep comp draft picks in the CBA. Teams need to offer arbitration in order to get them and thus be force to dish out money. Maddux will be the highest paid pitcher ever when it is all said and done.

hold2dibber
12-17-2002, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Can they even afford Maddux now?

That's a good question. With the two pitchers they acquired today they added about $10 million to their '03 payroll. IIRC, they're picking up about $2 million of Hampton's contract in '03. I'm not sure what Glavine made last year, but I'm guessing at least $7 or $8 million, which means with his departure they're probably already up about $5 million or so, and that's not taking into consideration raises going to other guys on the team. If Maddux goes to arbitration, he'll probably get at least a few more million than he made last year. And it was my understanding that they were going to try to reduce payroll, or at least keep it level, this off season. Makes me wonder if they might try to deal Millwood for a stick, since they're pretty weak offensively everywhere except the OF.

joecrede
12-17-2002, 02:44 PM
I don't like what the Braves have done to rebuild their rotation. Byrd is a 3-4 guy and I think the Giants got the better pitcher in the Moss deal. All this and everyone just assumes Hampton will return to form with Mazzone as his pitching coach. I'll believe that when I see it.

cornball
12-17-2002, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I don't like what the Braves have done to rebuild their rotation. Byrd is a 3-4 guy and I think the Giants got the better pitcher in the Moss deal. All this and everyone just assumes Hampton will return to form with Mazzone as his pitching coach. I'll believe that when I see it.


Your kidding right?

Dadawg_77
12-17-2002, 02:55 PM
Greg will cost from 15 to 20 Million for next year.

duke of dorwood
12-17-2002, 03:09 PM
When Traschel was signed, I had a feeling the maggots that run our team would do nothing

joecrede
12-17-2002, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by cornball
Your kidding right?

Not kidding at all. I'd rather have Glavine, Moss and the $10M they spent on Byrd than Hampton, Ortiz and Byrd.

Blueprint1
12-17-2002, 03:29 PM
I am happy we didn't sign byrd. I don't want us to pick up anothe player. The last two years Ice seen KW make stupid trades for players that didn't do anything. Now I see him staying with what we have. These border line pitchers you guys want to pick up don't have great numbers. Sure former cy young award winners would be nice. 5 year contracts for pitchers around 40 years old is kinda nuts. I think Ortiez is a good pitcher but he is a Brave now. Looking at whats on the Market outside of Maddux, and Clemens I am okay with what we have. If you look a the numbers for our young pitchers they are not bad. You have to remember that these guys are young and young pitching can get better as the players get older. A journeymen pitcher is as good as he is going to get they have no upside. Our young pitching staff is only going to get better this year. I think that Garland has pitched some good games. Does anyone remember his game in Boston when they were in first place? What if he starts to pitch like this on a consistent basis I don't think we will need to look for a #2 that does not seem to be out there right now anyway. Thats just what I think the last thing i want to see is another Ritchie in a sox uniform and a Fogg and Wells in another teams uniform

pudge
12-17-2002, 03:30 PM
Atlanta is Byrd's home, so it makes sense - Larry Bowa was *convinced* he was getting Byrd this morning on a radio show in Seattle... he must be steaming right now.

hold2dibber
12-17-2002, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Not kidding at all. I'd rather have Glavine, Moss and the $10M they spent on Byrd than Hampton, Ortiz and Byrd.

But if they had kept Glavine, they wouldn't have the $10 million they ended up giving to Byrd; in fact, they'd have about $35 million less because that's what it would have taken to lock up Glavine. As you note, whether the re-working of the Braves staff is a success depends almost entirely upon what Hampton does.

moochpuppy
12-17-2002, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I don't like what the Braves have done to rebuild their rotation. Byrd is a 3-4 guy and I think the Giants got the better pitcher in the Moss deal. All this and everyone just assumes Hampton will return to form with Mazzone as his pitching coach. I'll believe that when I see it.

Look how well Kile did once he left the Rockies. This is the best thing that could have happened to Hampton. My bet is he becomes a 20-game winner again.

joecrede
12-17-2002, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
But if they had kept Glavine, they wouldn't have the $10 million they ended up giving to Byrd; in fact, they'd have about $35 million less because that's what it would have taken to lock up Glavine. As you note, whether the re-working of the Braves staff is a success depends almost entirely upon what Hampton does.

Actually, the Braves are paying Hampton $38M through '08.


As you note, whether the re-working of the Braves staff is a success depends almost entirely upon what Hampton does.

I think Hampton is finished. We shall see ...

doublem23
12-17-2002, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I don't like what the Braves have done to rebuild their rotation. Byrd is a 3-4 guy and I think the Giants got the better pitcher in the Moss deal. All this and everyone just assumes Hampton will return to form with Mazzone as his pitching coach. I'll believe that when I see it.

So you're telling me you'd rather have Buehrle-Garland-Wright-Ritchie-Rauch/Biddle instead of Maddux-Hampton-Ortiz-Millwood-Byrd?

I'd take the Braves' staff over ours in a heartbeat.

Lip Man 1
12-17-2002, 04:19 PM
Nut says:

After The Sox and the Twinkies, the rest of the division is really going to suck.

Honestly Nut, I think that's part of the problem and plays right into the mindset of the Sox organization.

Because it is such a bad division they feel they don't have to significantly get better to win it every few years. They also figure that as long as the Sox back into winning a division every few years the fans will be happy and management is off the hook.

Personally I think the next time the Sox make October and get blown apart again by someone the fans won't be so understanding (a la 2000)

Lip

Lip Man 1
12-17-2002, 04:23 PM
Cornball:

For what it's worth, Ken Rosenthal was on the Peter Brown show on TSN today and said the braves absolutely STOLE Ortiz.

He said Moss had some brilliant games but fell apart in the second half, and didn't figure into the Braves rotation for this coming season unless it was by default. He said the Braves feel he's been passed up by other minor league pitchers and is in "love" with his change up, and refuses to change his mindset when he pitches. Basically Rosenthal said the Braves were trying to unload him because they feel he doesn't have much of a future. (I guess Moss is Atlanta's version of Aaron Myette!) and yet SOMEHOW they got Ortiz for him.

That's why some organizations win and some don't.

Lip

hold2dibber
12-17-2002, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Nut says:

After The Sox and the Twinkies, the rest of the division is really going to suck.

Honestly Nut, I think that's part of the problem and plays right into the mindset of the Sox organization.

Because it is such a bad division they feel they don't have to significantly get better to win it every few years. They also figure that as long as the Sox back into winning a division every few years the fans will be happy and management is off the hook.

Personally I think the next time the Sox make October and get blown apart again by someone the fans won't be so understanding (a la 2000)

Lip

I think you're absolutely right and it absolutely blows my mind that the Sox' management can't see how flawed this thinking is. Do they not notice that Sox fans haven't exactly come back to the park in droves after the '00 success? As every Sox fan knows, one of the primary problems the Sox have is that Sox fans do not trust management. We don't trust that they'll do whatever it takes to win and don't trust that they will be honest and fair with the fans or the players. The only ways to change that: (1) prove us wrong by making a tangible commitment to becoming a consistent contender; or (2) sell to management that will do so. Period. They're blind if they don't see this.

joecrede
12-17-2002, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
So you're telling me you'd rather have Buehrle-Garland-Wright-Ritchie-Rauch/Biddle instead of Maddux-Hampton-Ortiz-Millwood-Byrd?

My point was the Braves had better, cheaper options to rebuild their rotation.

If it were me I'd have gone this way:

Smoltz/Maddux/Millwood/Moss/<5th starter here>

They could use the $50M+ they saved to find a closer to replace Smoltz, improve the rest of their bullpen, and get help for their anemic offense.

I'd take the Braves' staff over ours in a heartbeat.

Like I said I think Hampton and Byrd are gambles, probably as big as Wright/Ritchie/Rauch/Biddle. I think our bullpen is better than theirs.

jeremyb1
12-17-2002, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Cornball:

For what it's worth, Ken Rosenthal was on the Peter Brown show on TSN today and said the braves absolutely STOLE Ortiz.

He said Moss had some brilliant games but fell apart in the second half, and didn't figure into the Braves rotation for this coming season unless it was by default. He said the Braves feel he's been passed up by other minor league pitchers and is in "love" with his change up, and refuses to change his mindset when he pitches. Basically Rosenthal said the Braves were trying to unload him because they feel he doesn't have much of a future. (I guess Moss is Atlanta's version of Aaron Myette!) and yet SOMEHOW they got Ortiz for him.

That's why some organizations win and some don't.

Lip

having leo mazonne coax an era of 4 out of a guy who supposedly isn't any good also helps in trades.

joecrede
12-17-2002, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Cornball:

For what it's worth, Ken Rosenthal was on the Peter Brown show on TSN today and said the braves absolutely STOLE Ortiz.

Lip

While I generally like what Rosenthal writes, the mainstream baseball media loves Scheurholtz, similar to the way the guys over at BP feel about Billy Beane.

kermittheefrog
12-17-2002, 05:44 PM
This new Atlanta staff reminds me a lot of the D-Rays "revamped" lineup a few years ago with Canseco, McGriff and Castilla. Byrd is in his 30s and coming off a career year, not a good combo. Mike Hampton is done. Darryl Kile was good after leaving Coors but he never walked as many batters as he struck out while in Denver. I like Kevin Millwood but can you really be sure he'll be good next year. Right now he's got one outstanding season, one good one and three mediocre ones. He's as least as likely to be mediocre as good.

I like Russ Ortiz but he doesn't wow me. Jason Marquis COULD be good. This Braves rotation just says to me: Really expensive patchwork pitching staff. It has names, it has veterans, it has a lot of money behind it but it doesn't really have any true star talent. Ortiz and Millwood would be #2 on a good staff on a good year. Byrd was over his head last year, Hampton is done and Marquis hasn't done anything yet. I thinnk it's silly to get excited over this "exciting" new Braves staff, it's got at least as many questions as our own staff. At least we have an ace in Buehrle, the Braves can't boast that.

Daver
12-17-2002, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
At least we have an ace in Buehrle, the Braves can't boast that.

Yeah Kermit,but Beurhle lacks the dreaded "Veteran Presence Pitch" that Hampton offers..........

kermittheefrog
12-17-2002, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by daver
Yeah Kermit,but Beurhle lacks the dreaded "Veteran Presence Pitch" that Hampton offers..........

I thought David Wells taught him that one?

lowesox
12-17-2002, 07:16 PM
I think the Braves rotation is going to fall flat on its face. I like Ortiz. Millwood, Byrd and Hampton are all really, really questionable. Maddux would be good, but I'll doubt he stays. AND the Braves paid a pretty penny for Ortiz, so I'm glad that KW didn't get suckered (for once).

I'm starting to think the Sox would be wise to get a veteran arm with low value like Estes, or Lieber and play the patience game. Right now they're good enough to make the playoffs. Lets wait and reassess the team before the trading deadline.

Not to mention it would be fun to watch some of the younger pitchers progress in the majors.

hose
12-17-2002, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
I think the Braves rotation is going to fall flat on its face. I like Ortiz. Millwood, Byrd and Hampton are all really, really questionable. Maddux would be good, but I'll doubt he stays. AND the Braves paid a pretty penny for Ortiz, so I'm glad that KW didn't get suckered (for once).

I'm starting to think the Sox would be wise to get a veteran arm with low value like Estes, or Lieber and play the patience game. Right now they're good enough to make the playoffs. Lets wait and reassess the team before the trading deadline.

Not to mention it would be fun to watch some of the younger pitchers progress in the majors.


If the price is right I would like to see the Sox take a chance on Lieber. I got a feeling he will bounce back.

KW could be content with signing Ritchie and seeing how the prospects like Stewart, Biddle and Rousch compete for a starting slot.

Unregistered
12-18-2002, 12:21 PM
Rob Neyer seems to think that without Maddux, the Braves' rotation isn't strong enough to win the division...
At the present, Braves' pitching falls short (http://msn.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/neyer_rob/1478954.html)

Lip Man 1
12-18-2002, 06:13 PM
There's no one in that division even CLOSE to catching Atlanta. Who the moving Expos, the dysfunctional Mets, the dysfunctional Marlins or the Phillies? (whose pitching is even worse then the Sox)

Lip