PDA

View Full Version : Konerko for Ortiz?


balboner
12-16-2002, 12:32 PM
Am I the only one scared to death about the mention Phil Rogers makes to the Giants wanting Konerko for Ortiz? Please tell me KW would never do this!

CHISOXFAN13
12-16-2002, 01:14 PM
My guess is Frisco wants Konerko, which is why this deal hasn't and won't happen.

gosox3072
12-16-2002, 01:14 PM
i missed where it said that we would trake konerko

GOSOX

VeeckAsInWreck
12-16-2002, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by gosox3072
i missed where it said that we would trake konerko

GOSOX

I haven't seen that anywhere either, but I think that would be wishfull thinking on the Giants part. If the Giants are looking for a 1B we can send them Jeff Liefer and cash(obviously). Anyone else have a different idea?

Brian26
12-16-2002, 01:21 PM
Ortiz has the potential to be Todd Ritchie in 2003. This trade is a joke. Konerko for anyone mediocre starting pitcher is a joke. I wouldn't even trade Konerko straight up for Colon right now, because Colon will be gone after a year.

joecrede
12-16-2002, 01:59 PM
I don't understand the love of Konerko. He's somewhere between average and slightly above average for his position in the AL. I'm also in the group that doesn't think he is going to get appreciably better. I think it's a mistake to count him among the core of this team.

Lets be completely unbiased in our evaluation of Konerko. I don't ever want the South side to have a player like Mark Grace, someone who is kept around because he's a fan favorite even though he puts his team at a competitive disadvantage.

RKMeibalane
12-16-2002, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I don't understand the love of Konerko. He's somewhere between average and slightly above average for his position in the AL. I'm also in the group that doesn't think he is going to get appreciably better. I think it's a mistake to count him among the core of this team.

Lets be completely unbiased in our evaluation of Konerko. I don't ever want the South side to have a player like Mark Grace, someone who is kept around because he's a fan favorite even though he puts his team at a competitive disadvantage.

I agree that Konerko probably won't get much better, but I don't think he puts this team at a disadvantage. He hits for average, power, and he drives in runs. He is not Gold Glove material at first base, but his fielding is solid enough to warrant him playing 1B on a regular basis. The only glaring weakness he has is his lack of speed, which has cost him several infield hits.

Dadawg_77
12-16-2002, 02:13 PM
Is it just me or did anyone else go damn there is KW trying to get guys who are about to be release again? The two threads with Ortiz confused me for a sec.

hold2dibber
12-16-2002, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
I haven't seen that anywhere either, but I think that would be wishfull thinking on the Giants part. If the Giants are looking for a 1B we can send them Jeff Liefer and cash(obviously). Anyone else have a different idea?

Please tell me you're joking. Do you honestly think the Giants would take Jeff friggin' Liefer for Ortiz? While we're at it, why don't we trade Rowand for Matt Morris and Graffy for Andy Pettite? Ortiz for the past 4 years:

'99: 18-9, 3.81
'00: 14-12, 5.01
'01: 17-9, 3.29
'02: 14-10, 3.61

He wins about 15 games each year, and other than '00, has had an ERA under 4.00. He has pitched between 195 and 218 innings in each of those years. He is 28 years old. Frankly, there aren't a lot of starting pitchers in the major leagues that can match that track record. I'm not saying that I'm sold on PK for Ortiz (he gives up too many base runners and his Ks declined appreciably this past year), but I sure as hell would consider it. The Sox need quality pitching and you have to give up quality to get quality. Jeff Liefer does not constitute quality. Plus, despite the fact that I really like PK, it wouldn't be too hard to come up with someone who could come reasonably close to his production. For example, compare the 162 game career averages of David Ortiz, just released by the Twins, and PK:

Konerko (26 years old):

581 ABs, 27 HRs, 99 RBIs, 50 BBs, 83 Ks, .287 BA, .348 OBP, .483 SLG.

Ortiz (27 years old):

526 ABs, 21 HRs, 85 RBIs, 66 BBs, 121 Ks, .266 BA, .348 OBP, .461 SLG.

Konerko is clearly better, but the fact that the Twins would simply release someone whose career averages aren't too far off of PK's should show you that it wouldn't be too tough for the Sox to find someone at 1B who could put up decent numbers. Again, I don't know if I'd do this deal, but I think you can make a pretty good argument either way.

Bobby Thigpen
12-16-2002, 02:39 PM
Joe, what reasons do you have for saying that Konerko will never improve? He has improved every year he's been in the majors. He may not make giagantic strides every year, but he is steadily improving, and he's only 26. I don't see how getting rid of a guy who can hit .300, 30 hrs, and 100 rbi on average for possibly the next 5 to 7 years can possibly be a good idea. Sure he's my favorite player, but stat wise I don't see how you can compare him to Mark Grace. He hits for average, power, run production, and isn't as bad a fielder as Frank. I especially don't see how trading him for the next Ritchie would be a good idea.

joecrede
12-16-2002, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
Joe, what reasons do you have for saying that Konerko will never improve? He has improved every year he's been in the majors. He may not make giagantic strides every year, but he is steadily improving, and he's only 26. I don't see how getting rid of a guy who can hit .300, 30 hrs, and 100 rbi on average for possibly the next 5 to 7 years can possibly be a good idea. Sure he's my favorite player, but stat wise I don't see how you can compare him to Mark Grace. He hits for average, power, run production, and isn't as bad a fielder as Frank. I especially don't see how trading him for the next Ritchie would be a good idea.

Konerko is what he is a slightly better than average offensive first baseman. This is a position that I want the Sox to have one of the top 3 in the league consistently and I don't see Konerko ever doing that. I'd rather have Durazo, Nick Johnson, maybe even Hafner or Pena to name a few. Also, I agree with Kermit's article that Lee has a brighter future than Konerko.

Bobby Thigpen
12-16-2002, 08:40 PM
Joe, do you honestly believe that the four people you mentioned will eventually become better than Pauly? Johnson I could see, but certainly not Pena. I have to believe that he will never materialize. Why else has everyone wanted to get rid of him the last year and a half? As far as Durazo is concerned I don't ever see him doing anything. I think he is just an overhyped utility player. PK is an established good first baseman, and he's only 26. He's got another ten years left. I don't know about you, but I certainly didn't forsee Thome going balistic like he has. What is to say PK won't do the same?

WinningUgly!
12-16-2002, 08:48 PM
Ortiz is a very good middle of the rotation guy. His walks scare the hell out of me, especially if Valentin is going to be at SS everyday. Can you say big inning?

I'd take Ortiz for the right deal, but I wouldn't give up Konerko for him. I'm also against trading Carlos Lee, unless it means Borchard becomes an everyday player. Any deal that would make Jeff Liefer our everyday leftfielder is a bad one.

If SF is truly looking to cut payroll by moving Ortiz...Rowand, Liefer & a decent pitching prospect would be somewhere to start.

WinningUgly!
12-16-2002, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
Joe, do you honestly believe that the four people you mentioned will eventually become better than Pauly? Johnson I could see, but certainly not Pena. I have to believe that he will never materialize. Why else has everyone wanted to get rid of him the last year and a half? As far as Durazo is concerned I don't ever see him doing anything. I think he is just an overhyped utility player. PK is an established good first baseman, and he's only 26. He's got another ten years left. I don't know about you, but I certainly didn't forsee Thome going balistic like he has. What is to say PK won't do the same?

I think Durazo is the real deal. Now that he'll be playing 1b everyday, look for him to have a monster year. In just 222 ABs last season, he managed to put up 16 HR & 48 RBI. In a full season, he could come close to tripling that production....well at least doubling it. :D:

kermittheefrog
12-16-2002, 08:59 PM
I'd be in favor of the Sox trading Konerko for Russ Ortiz if we could get David Ortiz to play first base. Or someone who should put up similar numbers.

Jerry_Manuel
12-16-2002, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I'd be in favor of the Sox trading Konerko for Russ Ortiz if we could get David Ortiz to play first base. Or someone who should put up similar numbers.

I hope Williams has a plan here.

Better not involve Liefer starting.

sox_fan_forever
12-16-2002, 09:43 PM
I am crossing my fingers that Konerko for Ortiz is nothing more than what it seems to be so far--a rumor. I think I would do Lee for Ortiz though.

dougs78
12-16-2002, 10:12 PM
Lets not forget the Giants motivation for trading Ortiz...salary dump. As far as I know PK (and CLee) makes more than Ortiz so it really would not serve their purposes. I think its got to be prospects. Liefer, Malone, Ginter....something like that....at least we can hope :) :)

kermittheefrog
12-16-2002, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by dougs78
Lets not forget the Giants motivation for trading Ortiz...salary dump. As far as I know PK (and CLee) makes more than Ortiz so it really would not serve their purposes. I think its got to be prospects. Liefer, Malone, Ginter....something like that....at least we can hope :) :)

Ortiz isn't a pure salary dump. They want to move his salary so they can add another bat because they have several young pitching prospects that can takeover in the rotation. If they get Konerko they have the bat they want.

duke of dorwood
12-16-2002, 10:28 PM
I'd rather have KW 's plan B than this transaction.