PDA

View Full Version : Sox/Expos close to deal


SoxxoS
12-14-2002, 04:56 PM
Reportedly, from Soxnet.net

Reports out of Montreal have indicated that the White Sox and Expos are working on an 8-player deal that will involve ACE Bartolo Colon and All-Star second baseman Jose Vidro.

The deal will also bring in catcher Michael Barrett. The Sox will send the Expos left-fielder Carlos Lee, pitcher Jon Garland, second-baseman Willie Harris and two others, one possibly being catcher Josh Paul.

Kenny Williams stated on Thursday that the Sox offered a deal to Montreal for pitcher Bartolo Colon a month ago, but Montreal general manager Omar Minaya decided to wait till the winter meetings before pulling any trades.

If the deal were to happen, the Sox would be getting a much needed number two pitcher to go behind lefty Mark Buehrle. Colon, who the Sox saw plenty of when he was with the Indians, went 20-8 for the Indians and Expos last season. He threw 233 1/3 innings and held an ERA of 3.85.

In his previous five seasons with Cleveland, Colon threw 200+ innings three times and won 55 games, losing 41. The hard-throwing 29-year old righty will make $6 million in 2003 and become a free agent following the season, a pitcher that goes against Williams plee of getting a pitcher for both now and down the line. But he does make the Sox slight favorites to win the AL Central and an immediate threat for the World Series, which is what Williams may take a chance on.

"If there is a difference maker, we'll explore that to a greater degree." said GM Kenny Williams. "If not, then we'll go to Plan B and that is to go with what we have in house. A middle-of-the-road type guy is not appealing to us."

The other big name in the deal, Jose Vidro, will give the Sox a career .305 hitter with 72 home runs and 346 RBI, and an offensive threat from the left side. Vidro batted .315 last season with 19 home runs and 96 RBI. Vidro, 28, is signed through 2004. He will earn $5.5 million in '03 and $7 million in '04.

The move will likely place power-hitting lefty Jeff Liefer in left and land D'Angelo Jimenez on the bench. Michael Barrett will give the Sox a catcher to platoon with Miguel Olivo, who the Sox believe isn't ready to become the full time catcher. Barrett, 26, batted .263 last season with 12 homers and 49 RBI in 117 games.

Financially, the deal would add an estimated $8 million in salary, putting the Sox around $55 million.

Unregistered
12-14-2002, 05:07 PM
If any of this is true, this is a helluva deal...

HawkDJ
12-14-2002, 05:09 PM
Wow...hm...sounds good to me I guess. Colon is much better than Garland right now, Vidro does not even compare to Harris. They get a veteran catcher so that Olivo doesn't have to jump right into the starting lineup. Then Carlos is a bonus for the Expos. The only things are...who is the other person?...we are adding alot of salary...we are giving up young guys. But I think its pretty good. I'd like to see what others think.

duke of dorwood
12-14-2002, 05:10 PM
I like All aspects of it. We just gotta sign Colon long term. And hope theres enough $ to keep the Buehrle contract talks going.

TornLabrum
12-14-2002, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by HawkDJ2k2
Wow...hm...sounds good to me I guess. Colon is much better than Garland right now, Vidro does not even compare to Harris. They get a veteran catcher so that Olivo doesn't have to jump right into the starting lineup. Then Carlos is a bonus for the Expos. The only things are...who is the other person?...we are adding alot of salary...we are giving up young guys. But I think its pretty good. I'd like to see what others think.

I think it's an unsubstantiated rumor from a web site that seems to have as its main writers ISU students.

Daver
12-14-2002, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I think it's an unsubstantiated rumor from a web site that seems to have as its main writers ISU students.

Actually that rumor started last night on the CBS Sportsline message boards,and was attributed to a Montreal radio show.

I have my doubts as to the veracity of any of it.

idseer
12-14-2002, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
I like All aspects of it. We just gotta sign Colon long term. And hope theres enough $ to keep the Buehrle contract talks going.

i agree colon would need to be more than a rent a player.
i always hoped for good things from garland and he may still develop, but we've been thru 2 straight this-should-be-the-year years with him and i honestly question whether '03 would be more of the same. vidro would be great but what happens to jimenez? i was really looking forward to seeing if he'd pick up where he left off. harris? no problem. paul? excellent move.
i would hope one of the "two others" doesn't end up being rauch or crede.

by the way. everyone keeps saying colon would be our #2. imo, colon would likely be our #1 with mark dropping a notch. anyone else agree?

SoxxoS
12-14-2002, 05:42 PM
Some people on some other boards are saying they think this is a bad deal. I think they are nuts. This would be the best deal the town of Chicago has seen in 15 years. We would be getting a guy that averages 17 wins a season, an awesome second baseman, and a big time upgrade at catcher. Catcher can be a strong point on this team with Barrett!

We have to give up something to get something, and Garland would be something I would hate to give up. However, he hasn't lived up to the promise, and after watching what a Josh Beckett can do with his first year (who Garland was just as hyped up as) I come to think that Garland will be a solid #3 guy. If I had to trade Garland or Wright, I would have to trade Garland by a hair. I like pitchers that show strikeout potential, like Wright.
Willie Harris isn't anything more to me than a super utility guy. Will help you out in a "pinch" so to speak.
Carlos Lee-Above average hitter with potential. However, cant run the bases and cant play defense. Dont like to give him up, but for Colon, Vidro and Barrett, Ill drive him to the airport.

rmusacch
12-14-2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Reportedly, from Soxnet.net

Reports out of Montreal have indicated that the White Sox and Expos are working on an 8-player deal that will involve ACE Bartolo Colon and All-Star second baseman Jose Vidro.

The deal will also bring in catcher Michael Barrett. The Sox will send the Expos left-fielder Carlos Lee, pitcher Jon Garland, second-baseman Willie Harris and two others, one possibly being catcher Josh Paul.

Kenny Williams stated on Thursday that the Sox offered a deal to Montreal for pitcher Bartolo Colon a month ago, but Montreal general manager Omar Minaya decided to wait till the winter meetings before pulling any trades.

If the deal were to happen, the Sox would be getting a much needed number two pitcher to go behind lefty Mark Buehrle. Colon, who the Sox saw plenty of when he was with the Indians, went 20-8 for the Indians and Expos last season. He threw 233 1/3 innings and held an ERA of 3.85.

In his previous five seasons with Cleveland, Colon threw 200+ innings three times and won 55 games, losing 41. The hard-throwing 29-year old righty will make $6 million in 2003 and become a free agent following the season, a pitcher that goes against Williams plee of getting a pitcher for both now and down the line. But he does make the Sox slight favorites to win the AL Central and an immediate threat for the World Series, which is what Williams may take a chance on.

"If there is a difference maker, we'll explore that to a greater degree." said GM Kenny Williams. "If not, then we'll go to Plan B and that is to go with what we have in house. A middle-of-the-road type guy is not appealing to us."

The other big name in the deal, Jose Vidro, will give the Sox a career .305 hitter with 72 home runs and 346 RBI, and an offensive threat from the left side. Vidro batted .315 last season with 19 home runs and 96 RBI. Vidro, 28, is signed through 2004. He will earn $5.5 million in '03 and $7 million in '04.

The move will likely place power-hitting lefty Jeff Liefer in left and land D'Angelo Jimenez on the bench. Michael Barrett will give the Sox a catcher to platoon with Miguel Olivo, who the Sox believe isn't ready to become the full time catcher. Barrett, 26, batted .263 last season with 12 homers and 49 RBI in 117 games.

Financially, the deal would add an estimated $8 million in salary, putting the Sox around $55 million.

I like this trade, contingent on who the fifth player is. The only question is why would the Expos do this? Why does this deal put Liefer in left and not Borchard? Also, I would think Jimenez would shift to short and move Valentin into a utility role.

OneDog
12-14-2002, 05:52 PM
My Grandfather always had a saying:

"If it's too good to be true, it probably is"

Smart man My Grandfather

HawkDJ
12-14-2002, 05:53 PM
The Expos would do this because they need to cut salary and they will be cutting $8 million with this trade. They are also getting youth.

Jjav829
12-14-2002, 06:02 PM
I think I'll just post this everywhere I see this rumor. :smile:

Is there any other source other than some idiot on a cbssportsline.com message board who, judging by the reaction his post got, had been posting other bs trade rumors? I don't believe it for one second. Omar Minaya is being swamped with offers from different teams. He said that today he was still visiting with some teams for the first time, and that tommorrow he will probably start visiting teams for the second team. He says that he will have met with about 20 teams by the time he is done, and that he has already ruled out several teams who didn't have the resources to get a trade done. Does anyone believe for one second that he will would have actually decided on a trade that he feels is fair by now? He would have had to have received a trade offer that overwhelmed him if he was just going to ignore listening to offers from other teams and accept that one trade. I seriously doubt that the Expos will make any trades before Monday. They will probably field a bunch of offers, and narrow down the list of teams that could potentially pull off a trade. Then continue to talk to those teams, playing the teams offers off each other in order to increase what they can get in a trade, until they finally get final offers and decided on what trade they want.

Sorry, but I don't believe this trade at all. As much as I would like to believe that we would get Colon, Vidro, and Barrett this soon, it just makes zero sense. I don't expect the Expos to make a trade for another few weeks, and Guerrero will not be traded and I think they will try to keep Colon as well.

jeremyb1
12-14-2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829

Is there any other source other than some idiot on a cbssportsline.com message board who, judging by the reaction his post got, had been posting other bs trade rumors? I don't believe it for one second.

i completely agree with you. all i've heard so far is that one person reported that one radio station in montreal said the deal was being discussed. how that's become "the trade is going down" is beyond me.

Daver
12-14-2002, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i completely agree with you. all i've heard so far is that one person reported that one radio station in montreal said the deal was being discussed. how that's become "the trade is going down" is beyond me.

I already said that.

Iguana775
12-14-2002, 06:14 PM
i agree this is a good deal but it is dependent on that 5th guy. but, this seems to be too good of a deal so it is prolly not true. for all we know, that 5th guy could be borchard.

guillen4life13
12-14-2002, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch
I like this trade, contingent on who the fifth player is. The only question is why would the Expos do this? Why does this deal put Liefer in left and not Borchard? Also, I would think Jimenez would shift to short and move Valentin into a utility role.

That seems like the most likely thing to happen (should this deal happen, and if it does, I will be very happy). Jiminez is the best leadoff option the Sox have as of now. Vidro had only 2 stolen bases last year.

Depending on the asking price, I think the Sox might want to consider signing David Justice to a one year contract and let Borchard start the season in AAA, and use Justice in LF until Borchard's time comes. Liefer could be the 4th outfielder until Borchard gets called up, then Liefer goes down and has an everyday job (which is what he wants I guess... too bad for him it can't happen earlier). What say you all of this idea? Do you think Justice would ask for too much money? He only had a .266 average last year with 11 dingers and 49 ribbies, so if he decides not to retire, he would be a good option in left field. Hell, once Borchard is ready, bench Rowand if he isn't absolutely tearing it up.

Should this montreal deal happen, here's how I see things working out:

SS Jiminez
CF Rowand
DH Thomas
RF Ordonez
1B Konerko
2B Vidro
3B Crede
C Barrett
LF Liefer

WITH JUSTICE:

SS Jiminez
CF Rowand/Borchard
DH Thomas
RF Ordonez
1B Konerko
2B Vidro
LF Justice
3B Crede
C Barrett/Olivo


Rotation:

Colon OR Buehrle
Buehrle OR Colon
Wright OR Ritchie
Ritchie OR Rauch
Rauch OR Biddle

The second option would put Wright in the pen, but I think I like this option most:

Colon
Buehrle
Ritchie
Wright
Rauch

I am in the group that believes that Ritchie will do a much better job this coming year than last because of his mechanics changes. He's a good option as as 3rd starter.

My god, if this Montreal deal works, I might actually find myself praising KW, and we could have REALISTIC (jeez, really!?) world series chances.

Think about it... when you're a team that has David Justice hitting 7th in the order, I think you really have something, along with this killer pitching staff that could happen.

Of course, it's all still rumor, and I'm probably making this post out of sheer hope that will not be fulfilled.

*Sigh*

Paulwny
12-14-2002, 06:29 PM
From Montreal's Cyber Press:
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/reseau/sports/0212/spo_102120168229.html

Daver
12-14-2002, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
From Montreal's Cyber Press:
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/reseau/sports/0212/spo_102120168229.html

Hey Paul your link is in French,would you care to translate for us?

:)

guillen4life13
12-14-2002, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
From Montreal's Cyber Press:
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/reseau/sports/0212/spo_102120168229.html

Paulwny, sabe francais?

PaleHoseGeorge
12-14-2002, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by daver
Hey Paul your link is in French,would you care to translate for us?

:)

*****! Let me guess. The anonymous poster at Sportsline was listening to the Montreal radio station and translating from French, right?

Paulwny
12-14-2002, 06:40 PM
It's the French translation of Jjav829's post in this thread.

Viva Magglio
12-14-2002, 06:45 PM
I'll believe it when I hear the Score say "We have breaking White Sox news..." In the meantime, I'll just consider this a rumor personally.

guillen4life13
12-14-2002, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
It's the French translation of Jjav829's post in this thread.

I'm confused now...

PaleHoseGeorge
12-14-2002, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
I'm confused now...

I believe WNY is being facetious. There are several teams linked to talks with the Expos, including Les Yankees, Les Blue Jays, and Les Rangers. Funny, Les White Sox aren't among them--which was Jjav's point, too.

guillen4life13
12-14-2002, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I believe WNY is being facetious. There are several teams linked to talks with the Expos, including Les Yankees, Les Blue Jays, and Les Rangers. Funny, Les White Sox aren't among them--which was Jjav's point, too.

Ah. Thanks for clarifying. In any case, what do you guys think of signing Justice to a one year contract?

Paulwny
12-14-2002, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I believe WNY is being facetious. There are several teams linked to talks with the Expos, including Les Yankees, Les Blue Jays, and Les Rangers. Funny, Les White Sox aren't among them--which was Jjav's point, too.

Correct PHG, Jjav's post is probably the only correct one in this thread.

Viva Magglio
12-14-2002, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I believe WNY is being facetious. There are several teams linked to talks with the Expos, including Les Yankees, Les Blue Jays, and Les Rangers. Funny, Les White Sox aren't among them--which was Jjav's point, too.

And Les Grobstein.

jeremyb1
12-14-2002, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Some people on some other boards are saying they think this is a bad deal. I think they are nuts. This would be the best deal the town of Chicago has seen in 15 years. We would be getting a guy that averages 17 wins a season, an awesome second baseman, and a big time upgrade at catcher. Catcher can be a strong point on this team with Barrett!

i just have problems with giving up garland who i still think has as much upside as any pitcher on the staff for a pitcher that will be here for one season and leave. that's what it comes down to for me. garland has not fallen short of expectations, he's 23 years old. bartolo colon the ace we're about to deal for wasn't even in the major leagues until he was 24.

i love vidro but i don't feel like 2B is a huge problem. maybe if we could move jose and put jiminez at ss i'd like this deal a lot more. maybe i'm being too personal about the deal but i think the world of garland. i'd rather trade any other pitcher in the organization outside of buehrle. i don't understand why kw keeps on attempting to trade garland. i just feel like he's begging to be burned if there's any truth to this.

i think there's time for rent a players and there's not. saying things like "this is a great deal provided we sign colon long term" is dodging the issue. there's no way we'd sign a pitcher for 12 million a year for 4 or 5 years which is where the asking price will start for colon. that's something kw really needs to be considering when he talks about deals like this and therefore i think its more than relevant to this discussion and a prime reason why this deal isn't as good as it seems. thankfully, i doubt there's shred of truth to any of this.

Viva Magglio
12-14-2002, 07:11 PM
I have my doubts that this trade will actually happen. But if it does, will it be the one that makes or breaks KW?

TornLabrum
12-14-2002, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
I have my doubts that this trade will actually happen. But if it does, will it be the one that makes or breaks KW?

I wonder what hsc would have to say about all of this....

PaleHoseGeorge
12-14-2002, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I wonder what hsc would have to say about all of this....

LOL, I was thinking the same thing!

Needless to say, the guy posting at Sportsline would need to prove his proficiency with the French language before his rumor post would go unchallenged here.

Ol Aches & Pains
12-14-2002, 07:23 PM
I would love to believe this was going to happen, but this story from the Montreal Gazette makes no mention of Colon, Vidro, or the White Sox. If this was such a hot rumor, you'd think they'd be talking about it up there, wouldn't you?

GM's Flock to Santa Omar (This link now works) (http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/story.asp?id={20367344-0DC7-4CE3-B9B7-78F418797EF3})

The link is fixed.

-PHG

Daver
12-14-2002, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by Ol Aches & Pains
I would love to believe this was going to happen, but this story from the Montreal Gazette makes no mention of Colon, Vidro, or the White Sox. If this was such a hot rumor, you'd think they'd be talking about it up there, wouldn't you?

http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/story.asp?id={20367344-0DC7-4CE3-B9B7-78F418797EF3} (http://)

Thats a bad link.

It's probably in French anyway.


:)

PaleHoseGeorge
12-14-2002, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by daver
Thats a bad link.

It's probably in French anyway.


:)

The Gazette is written in English for Anglophones. Here's betting $1000 the guy posting at Sportsline has never even heard of the term, let alone knows its meaning.
:smile:

Jjav829
12-14-2002, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
The Gazette is written in English for Anglophones. Here's betting $1000 the guy posting at Sportsline has never even heard of the term, let alone knows its meaning.
:smile:

Well I read his post (can't find it now, I don't know how long those messages stay there) and he didn't speak English all that well, so you never know. :smile:

Ol Aches & Pains
12-14-2002, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
The Gazette is written in English for Anglophones. Here's betting $1000 the guy posting at Sportsline has never even heard of the term, let alone knows its meaning.
:smile:

Merde! Merci Beaucoup for fixing the link, mon ami.

Jjav829
12-14-2002, 08:02 PM
Well for anyone who needs any more proof that this rumor is not true...
Amid reports of the Sox's interest in ace right-hander Bartolo Colon, Montreal's general manager, Omar Minaya -- the busiest and most talked about person at the meetings -- told MLB Radio Saturday before 6:00 p.m. CT that he had not yet met privately with Williams in his hotel suite but the two had talked briefly in the hallway on Friday night.

"(Williams) has made it clear that he is interested in my players," Minaya said of his discussions with Williams. "Throughout the year, he has been contacting me, letting me know he wants to be a player (if we decide to move our players)."



Full article about KW at winter meetings. (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20021214&content_id=185939&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp)

guillen4life13
12-14-2002, 08:32 PM
"I stayed up (Friday) night with five other general managers in a private suite," he said. "I was the early bird and went to bed at a quarter to five (in the morning). We talked baseball. I couldn't have asked for anything more -- other than to get that ideal guy."

-Ken Williams

I wouldn't mind knowing who those GM's were, and what they talked about, and whether any potential deals were discussed.

Lip Man 1
12-14-2002, 09:32 PM
Of course the possibility exist that the "meeting" was just friendly banter among friend that no business was transacted or even any ground work laid out for future developments.

Lip

guillen4life13
12-14-2002, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Of course the possibility exist that the "meeting" was just friendly banter among friend that no business was transacted or even any ground work laid out for future developments.

Lip

Well, it does say they talked about baseball, which could mean something(s).

Chisoxfn
12-14-2002, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I think it's an unsubstantiated rumor from a web site that seems to have as its main writers ISU students.

Well, just to verify things, the main writer is a jounralism major and not at ISU. I'm also a writer their and am a student(CAL STATE FULLERTON), but I'll talk baseball any day of the week with anyone, and am pretty cocky about my knowledge.

I will say this, it is a rumor, so you have to take it like a rumor. This isn't a done deal. The only thing I've heard on the radio is the Expos are supposed to announce some sort of a deal on Monday. I have no clue what deal they are talking about, and maybe they are just announcing something else.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-14-2002, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
Well, just to verify things, the main writer is a jounralism major and not at ISU. I'm also a writer their and am a student(CAL STATE FULLERTON), but I'll talk baseball any day of the week with anyone, and am pretty cocky about my knowledge.

I will say this, it is a rumor, so you have to take it like a rumor. This isn't a done deal. The only thing I've heard on the radio is the Expos are supposed to announce some sort of a deal on Monday. I have no clue what deal they are talking about, and maybe they are just announcing something else.

I don't get it. Are you confirming there was a radiocast regarding this? You used the first-person. When was this radiocast and by whom? Or is your source second-hand like the guy at Sportsline claiming he heard a radiocast? How has what any of the rest of us would call a rumor (i.e. common talk) been transformed by you into "a deal that isn't done?" And on what basis are you claiming that an announcement is coming Monday?

Oh, and are you a journalism student, too? (We'll skip the cocky part).

Chisoxfn
12-14-2002, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I don't get it. Are you confirming there was a radiocast regarding this? You used the first-person. When was this radiocast and by whom? Or is your source second-hand like the guy at Sportsline claiming he heard a radiocast? How has what any of the rest of us would call a rumor (i.e. common talk) been transformed by you into "a deal that isn't done?" And on what basis are you claiming that an announcement is coming Monday?

Oh, and are you a journalism student, too? (We'll skip the cocky part).

No, I am not a journalist major. Typically when I write, its more of a commentary. I'm a die-hard baseball fan who enjoys everything about the game. I go to as many games I can get to and watch almost every White Sox game on tv.

Also, I didn't write the report, but as it says, it states its a rumor, meaning just that. Rumors are rumors. Basically anything is a rumor until its announced official by the teams general managers.

The main reason I was saying this was because of a comment saying were all ISU Students. I'm a business major(Studying to become a CPA), but my dream would be to be involved with baseball in some way shape of form.

In terms of the cocky part, I simply mean that I tend to stick to things the way I see them. I never liked the Ritchie deal from the first day and it was because of Kip Wells. Many whined about losing Fogg and Lowe, but they are nothing. I know Fogg had a good year, but I will continue to say this, Fogg is nothing special. Kip is the only guy in that deal that will turn into much anything.

Ritchie may of sucked, but the Sox have Edwin Yan who looks like he could turn into Luis Castillo. Of course he could also be the next Goodwin(Tons of speed and potential gone to waste)

Anyway, back to baseball talk for me :)

cornball
12-14-2002, 10:15 PM
I hope it is true.......doubt it but i hope it is!!!!

hose
12-14-2002, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by daver
Hey Paul your link is in French,would you care to translate for us?

:)

it basically said, "You English swine, I shall fart in your genaral direction"

-Le hose

PaleHoseGeorge
12-14-2002, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
No, I am not a journalist major. Typically when I write, its more of a commentary. I'm a die-hard baseball fan who enjoys everything about the game. I go to as many games I can get to and watch almost every White Sox game on tv....


Well we can always use more Sox Fans. :smile:

Unfortunately, there is no news here. An unsubstantiated rumor, yes, but a not deal that hasn't been done, or anything else with foundation. I'm pretty sure we had already come to that conclusion earlier in this thread.

I would rather debunk rumors than use this forum to spread them. N'est-ce pas? (Anybody who doesn't understand should check for a translation with the Sportsline guy). :smile:

Chisoxfn
12-14-2002, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by cornball
I hope it is true.......doubt it but i hope it is!!!!

I'm with ya on this. This would be a great trade. I'd hate giving up Garland, but hey, you got to give something to get something. I wish we could find a way to get them to take Wright instead, but I won't complain. Colon is a stud and as long as we resign him, I'd be all over this deal.

Plus, Vidro is one of the top second baseman in baseball, is still very young, and is locked up for a bit, albeit at a pretty high price, which could put him on the block in a year or two, but if the SOx happen to make it to the series, the fans will come, plus JR will get a ton of money from being in the World Series.

TornLabrum
12-14-2002, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
Well, just to verify things, the main writer is a jounralism major and not at ISU. I'm also a writer their and am a student(CAL STATE FULLERTON), but I'll talk baseball any day of the week with anyone, and am pretty cocky about my knowledge.

I will say this, it is a rumor, so you have to take it like a rumor. This isn't a done deal. The only thing I've heard on the radio is the Expos are supposed to announce some sort of a deal on Monday. I have no clue what deal they are talking about, and maybe they are just announcing something else.

The problem is that although it is announced as a rumor in the headline, the article itself attributes it to "reports out of Montreal" when Daver was able to quickly find the source as an unsubstantiated report on a CBS Sportsline message board that someone had heard a broadcast from Montreal.

That's the flimsiest of material to base any kind of story on. Give me hsc's reports any day!

OEO Magglio
12-14-2002, 10:29 PM
This seems way to good to be true, but last time soxnet.net reported that a deal was close with the whitesox, it was the koch deal, so you never know, this would be an amazing trade, but it's just way to good to be true

TornLabrum
12-14-2002, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
No, I am not a journalist major. Typically when I write, its more of a commentary. I'm a die-hard baseball fan who enjoys everything about the game. I go to as many games I can get to and watch almost every White Sox game on tv.

Also, I didn't write the report, but as it says, it states its a rumor, meaning just that. Rumors are rumors. Basically anything is a rumor until its announced official by the teams general managers.

What I said exactly was:

I think it's an unsubstantiated rumor from a web site that seems to have as its main writers ISU students.

A quick check only revealed the background of only a couple of writers. Both were students at ISU. Since there were four major writers I could find, it was a logical conclusion.

TornLabrum
12-14-2002, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
This seems way to good to be true, but last time soxnet.net reported that a deal was close with the whitesox, it was the koch deal, so you never know, this would be an amazing trade, but it's just way to good to be true

I think that rumor popped up on these message boards, too, unless my memory fails me.

Chisoxfn
12-14-2002, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
What I said exactly was:



A quick check only revealed the background of only a couple of writers. Both were students at ISU. Since there were four major writers I could find, it was a logical conclusion.

No problem. I just know if this deal were to happen I'd be very excited.

OEO Magglio
12-14-2002, 11:01 PM
If this trade is to happen, which I dont think it will, what about moving jiminez to ss, valentin to ss and rowand to left

then the lineup could look like
Jiminez
Vidro
Thomas
Maggs
PK
Valentin
Crede
Rowand
Barrett.

rotation
Buehrle
Colon
Ritchie
Wright
Rauch

pen
Biddle
Ginter
Glover
Wunsch
Osuna
Marte
Koch

baggio202
12-15-2002, 12:46 AM
if this deal does happen..which i am in favor of so its probably not gonna happen..but if it did could we play valentin in LF??..i was possibly thinking of a line up like this...our most productive offensive line up

jimenez SS
valentin LF ..i like him in the 2 spot ala '00..vidro doesnt have speed
thomas DH
maggs RF
konerko 1B
vidro 2b.. could flip flop konerko and jose
borchard CF
crede 3B..if we played rowand in cf flip flop him with crede
olivo / barrett C

i think with the addition of vidro we could give borchard an outfield spot and live with his growing pains...and if he doesnt have any and puts up stud numbers we could have the top offense in baseball...plus with vidro and borchard in the middle of the line up we finally balance out the offense with two power hitting lefties..

the only thing i dont like about this deal is it gives jerry the tinkerer that much more flexibility...he could kill the golded goose here

Huisj
12-15-2002, 01:31 AM
never have liked colon much. he scares me. his strike out rates are way down all the sudden (yeah, he era was good, but still, i question him). He throws a ton of innings, and he'll be 30, so he's pretty darn close to the standard arm breakdown. the chances of this breakdown happening very soon increase exponentially if he gets traded to the sox. he's got weight problems, and his fastball is straight as [place something really straight right here]. sorry couldn't come up with something funny to put there. anyways, my point is that i don't really think colon will be a real huge upgrade. and now everyone will proceed to call me crazy and say i'm insane and that i should get a brain, but oh well.

and why is everyone so excited about michael barrett. he has a lifetime ops of .702. he's ok now i guess, but he's not a reason to jump for joy ane be crazy.

it's a whole lot to give up for what we're getting i think. that's just me though. i like garland, i'll just say that much.

RichH55
12-15-2002, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Of course the possibility exist that the "meeting" was just friendly banter among friend that no business was transacted or even any ground work laid out for future developments.

Lip

In a situation like that you are always "working"....bigger deals have been come from less obvious places than this

Tragg
12-15-2002, 02:27 AM
I disbelieve this deal if for no other reason that it is extremely one-sided in favor of the Sox. The Sox get 2 all star player plus a capable catcher (at least offensively) for a good hitter, a nice youg pitcher, a 2B we picked up for singleton and, uh, jush paul? Well Santa Claus is coming in 10 days, so who knows?

HITMEN OF 77
12-15-2002, 02:44 AM
I really hate to see C Lee go. he is going to be really good someday soon! But if this is what it takes to take us to the top, then it's worth it! Vidro would fit in good, would love to see him in a Sox uniform!

spataro51
12-15-2002, 02:46 AM
Wow, it has been a very long time since I was posting on these boards, so long I even had to re regester myself. anyways; I am hearing all about this deal alll over the internet and even on the score 670! But this deal sounds so good to be true with all the other offers out there from at least 15 other teams wouldn't someone try to come back and give a better offer?

Chisoxfn
12-15-2002, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by spataro51
Wow, it has been a very long time since I was posting on these boards, so long I even had to re regester myself. anyways; I am hearing all about this deal alll over the internet and even on the score 670! But this deal sounds so good to be true with all the other offers out there from at least 15 other teams wouldn't someone try to come back and give a better offer?
Man, Bj, its been a long long time since I saw ya anywhere. I think this would be a great deal. We'll just have to sit back and see what happens.

I Think Colon is going to be moved as is Vidro so someone is going to get him. Why can't it be the Sox for once?

voodoochile
12-15-2002, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by spataro51
Wow, it has been a very long time since I was posting on these boards, so long I even had to re regester myself. anyways; I am hearing all about this deal alll over the internet and even on the score 670! But this deal sounds so good to be true with all the other offers out there from at least 15 other teams wouldn't someone try to come back and give a better offer?

Well... welcome (back) aboard. I think I remember you from the old site when I posted as JustJim35. Now, welcoming new people is part of my duties, so like I said, welcome back...

As to your question about better offers, no guarantees, but with Lee's newfound plate patience last year and Garland's constant hype as a future stud and his still very young age, it isn't like the Sox are offering nothing. There is plenty of "potential" and a fair amount of experience between those two. Still, the deal sounds too good to be true to me, but who knows...

:KW
"I do..."

:ohno
"Now that's a scary thought..."

doublem23
12-15-2002, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I think it's an unsubstantiated rumor from a web site that seems to have as its main writers ISU students.

Hey now. Some of us are Bradley students.

:)

guillen4life13
12-15-2002, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by spataro51
Wow, it has been a very long time since I was posting on these boards, so long I even had to re regester myself. anyways; I am hearing all about this deal alll over the internet and even on the score 670! But this deal sounds so good to be true with all the other offers out there from at least 15 other teams wouldn't someone try to come back and give a better offer?

Welcome back. I'm guessing I wasn't here when you last were, so in any case...

What did the Score say about this, and do you think their source was in fact this message board?

TornLabrum
12-15-2002, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Welcome back. I'm guessing I wasn't here when you last were, so in any case...

What did the Score say about this, and do you think their source was in fact this message board?

The Score's parent company is Viacom, which owns CBS. So the original rumor-mongering post on the message board there could have been the source.

bc2k
12-15-2002, 04:49 PM
Even if this trade does not happen, I'm glad that KW would trade JGar before Wright.

hose
12-15-2002, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
No, I am not a journalist major. Typically when I write, its more of a commentary. I'm a die-hard baseball fan who enjoys everything about the game. I go to as many games I can get to and watch almost every White Sox game on tv.

Also, I didn't write the report, but as it says, it states its a rumor, meaning just that. Rumors are rumors. Basically anything is a rumor until its announced official by the teams general managers.

The main reason I was saying this was because of a comment saying were all ISU Students. I'm a business major(Studying to become a CPA), but my dream would be to be involved with baseball in some way shape of form.


You should consider a intership with any franchise that will take you in.

My nephew is a senior and just finished his football season (DivII) and is trying to get a internship with a Arena football team. He has the same dreams that you do.

The pay will be low and the job itself might humble you a bit, but unless you have connections, starting off at the bottom is the only way to get your foot in the door.

Open up any media guide and you will find a guy that started off at the bottom. Danny Evans is an example...and he made it all the way to being the GM for the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Your business degree with a CPA will only help you.

kermittheefrog
12-15-2002, 07:20 PM
This trade is too good to be true so it probably isn't. Joe Sheehan, formally of the baseball prospectus, pubishes a newsletter I subscribe to. He is at the winter meetings and reports that there is next to nothing going on. He said there was one rumor floating around and it had to do with a free agent signing and not a trade.

OEO Magglio
12-15-2002, 07:25 PM
Which FA, Daal?

kermittheefrog
12-15-2002, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
Which FA, Daal?

Irod.

jeremyb1
12-15-2002, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Even if this trade does not happen, I'm glad that KW would trade JGar before Wright.

i don't think that necessarily indicates that because garland has a lot more value than wright. also, i think garland is much much better than wright. i could see garland as a 1 and i don't really see wright as too much more than a good 3 or a good closer.

bc2k
12-16-2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i don't think that necessarily indicates that because garland has a lot more value than wright. also, i think garland is much much better than wright. i could see garland as a 1 and i don't really see wright as too much more than a good 3 or a good closer.

Your first sentence could very well be right. I'm hoping not since I think Wright is a better pitcher than JGar. I believe Ed Farmer brought up the idea of Wright as a closer and I agree that he could be a dominant one. IMO, Wright has earned his starter spot and I will go on record predicting he will have a better 2003 season than the "perennial future Ace" Jon Garland.

nixsox
12-16-2002, 10:55 PM
I think that Garland is a better pitcher than Wright. He has a lot more movement on his pitches then Wright. His ball seems to have that natural sink to it sort of like a Kevin Brown. I think Wright would be a good closer but we obviously need a No 2 starter. Therefore I would rather see Wright go instead of Garland. I think Jon is going to have a breakthrough season finally. I wouldn't mind seeing Colon on our staff though and Barrett is an obvious upgrade over Paul. Carlos is going to be a great hitter one day but it's not going to be in a Sox uniform.