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OfficerKarkovice
12-13-2002, 09:22 AM
"The good news is about 10 teams have called with an interest in signing free-agent pitcher Greg Maddux. The bad news is neither the Cubs nor the White Sox are among them."

Daily Herald (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/col_rozner.asp)

34 Inch Stick
12-13-2002, 11:50 AM
It is painfully obvious that he is the perfect free agent pickup for the Sox. He fits the Sox in every way. It's frustrating knowing that we are not even interested in acquiring him.

It would be great to watch him get 300 in a White Sox uniform and be a constant reminder to the Cubs of their studpidity.

Viva Magglio
12-13-2002, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
It is painfully obvious that he is the perfect free agent pickup for the Sox.

I agree. He may not be the Maddux we should have signed in 1993, but he can't hurt the rotation.

:reinsy
Perfect? Who you crappin'?

jeremyb1
12-13-2002, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
It is painfully obvious that he is the perfect free agent pickup for the Sox. He fits the Sox in every way. It's frustrating knowing that we are not even interested in acquiring him.

It would be great to watch him get 300 in a White Sox uniform and be a constant reminder to the Cubs of their studpidity.

i fail to see how its a forgone conclusion we don't have the money after cutting over 10 million from last year's budget.

Iwritecode
12-13-2002, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i fail to see how its a forgone conclusion we don't have the money after cutting over 10 million from last year's budget.

Because with JR, cutting payroll from last year does not equal freeing up money to spend elsewhere. It means his pockets are fatter...

Paulwny
12-13-2002, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Because with JR, cutting payroll from last year does not equal freeing up money to spend elsewhere. It means his pockets are fatter...

and that's why forget about Colon and Vlad, think more of players like Girardi and Ponson.

hold2dibber
12-13-2002, 12:48 PM
Although I'd love to have Maddux, the question is, at what price? He is 36 and has shown some signs of physical problems over the last couple years. Boras is going to want at least a 4 year deal, probably at more than $12 million/year. I'm not certain he's worth it.

34 Inch Stick
12-13-2002, 01:39 PM
I have never heard of any physical problems with Maddux. I also didn't know Boras was his agent. That is just another reason we will not sign him.

Jeremy I never said we didn't have the money to sign him. The problem is will we give the money to sign him. I think you know the answer.

I do not believe heavily in the adding veterans theory. Maddux is one of the exceptions because he has a history of working with other pitchers on his staff.

I believe he would be the most significant free agent pickup in the history of the organization. I would give him the twelve mil and 4 years now. However, I am also the one debating on spending $5 on a sandwich or eating my brown bag special for lunch.

Bobby Thigpen
12-13-2002, 02:44 PM
I agree that Maddux would be perfect. He can provide many solid if not brilliant innings and is known as an excellent tutor to young talent. If the Sox are willing to trade minor league talent and/or major league talent (Crede or Lee) for a guy who only has 1 year left at a comaparable price (Colon), why don't they go after a guy that is a proven excellent pitcher and won't cost them any of their talent? OH WAIT, BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE.

Nellie_Fox
12-13-2002, 04:01 PM
Wow, I remember all the Crede watchers on here, who just couldn't wait for Crede to get here, and were ripping management for leaving him in the minors. Now you want to trade him for an aging superstar whose best years are behind him? I don't see it.

Hangar18
12-13-2002, 04:57 PM
ATTN KENNY WILLIAMS.
SIGN Greg Maddux.
He will be excellent for Wright, Rauch, and esp Jon Garland

SIGN GREG MADDUX. you wont have to give away talent.....
SIGN MADDUX

KEEP CREDE, KEEP MAGGS

Bobby Thigpen
12-13-2002, 06:15 PM
Nellie, please don't think that I want Crede gone. I was just using him as an example of what people on this board have been proposing. I think it would be a huge mistake to get rid of either him or Borchard. Especially if it is in the same deal as someone on here suggested earlier. That's why Maddux is a good fit. The Sox would only lose money, which unfortunately I don't see them willing to do. So in retrospect this is probably a moot point.

hempsox
12-13-2002, 06:48 PM
You know with all the attn surrounding the expos bidding war...just once kw should do the right thing and sign Maddux. Sure there are arguements that would say that he just isn't the same pitcher that he was two seasons ago (a dropoff of 72 SO, 190 to 118, 50 IP, 249 to 199, and no CG last year compared with 6 in 2000). But all in all this is a pitcher that has won 15 or more games the last 15 STRAIT seasons and it's not like the injuries that prolly cost him what could have been his fifth Cy Young were happening throughout the year.

If memory serves me he was injured at the start of the season and it wasn't due to the normal red flags (hurting arm, bum legs, or aching back) that would make me say "No Way" to a guy like this. If the Sox are serious about wanting to go with the youth pitchers then they should get serious and get a guy that not only pitches every 5 days but also would act as a second pitching coach (which would be 2 more than they had going into last season).

Lip Man 1
12-13-2002, 11:02 PM
From Paul Sullivan's story on Day One at the Winter meetings which just hit the Trib's web site:

"The Sox inquired about Maddux last month, just as they asked about Alex Rodriguez two years ago. As with Rodriguez, Maddux's price tag was astronomical.

"I asked [agent] Scott Boras at the general managers' meeting what it would take [to sign Maddux], and there wasn't much need to meet further on the matter," Williams said.

And that ends that!

Lip

jeremyb1
12-14-2002, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
From Paul Sullivan's story on Day One at the Winter meetings which just hit the Trib's web site:

"The Sox inquired about Maddux last month, just as they asked about Alex Rodriguez two years ago. As with Rodriguez, Maddux's price tag was astronomical.

"I asked [agent] Scott Boras at the general managers' meeting what it would take [to sign Maddux], and there wasn't much need to meet further on the matter," Williams said.

And that ends that!


my guess right now is that there's no way maddux signs with anyone other than the braves. there's probably even a good chace they'll be forced to go to arbitration. boras' goal is ussually to ask for an exorbitant amount and wait until someone like hicks caves. however, this year i don't think there's any way that'll happen. the money just isn't there for anyone, at least not anyone who's willing to pay for a guy that age.

RedPinStripes
12-14-2002, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Wow, I remember all the Crede watchers on here, who just couldn't wait for Crede to get here, and were ripping management for leaving him in the minors. Now you want to trade him for an aging superstar whose best years are behind him? I don't see it.

Thank you Nellie.

Lip Man 1
12-14-2002, 12:57 PM
Just re reading Williams' comment in the Maddux inquiry set me to thinking about something.

The best GM's, if they really need something, at least try to work out different, alternative, creative ways to get something done. (a la Billy Beane)

No question Maddux is out of the Sox price range (and so is basically 80% of the other good players as long as Reinsdorf stays as owner...) but if the Sox are that set on getting another #2 starter wouldn't it be better to at least explore options, and use their collective brains to see what they could offer, instead of just essentially "giving up" and walking away?

You never know what you can do until you try. I get the impression the Sox never try very hard.

Lip

NewyorkSoxFan
12-14-2002, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Just re reading Williams' comment in the Maddux inquiry set me to thinking about something.

The best GM's, if they really need something, at least try to work out different, alternative, creative ways to get something done. (a la Billy Beane)

No question Maddux is out of the Sox price range (and so is basically 80% of the other good players as long as Reinsdorf stays as owner...) but if the Sox are that set on getting another #2 starter wouldn't it be better to at least explore options, and use their collective brains to see what they could offer, instead of just essentially "giving up" and walking away?

You never know what you can do until you try. I get the impression the Sox never try very hard.

Lip

Come on Lip, now I know we lack creativity, but Boras is a moron. He tries to hold everybody hostage until he get what he wants. That guy is a ball-buster who likes to play games and pit teams against each other.

I don't blame KW for walking away. I can't stand that guy he is bad for baseball.

NYSF

MarkEdward
12-14-2002, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
Come on Lip, now I know we lack creativity, but Boras is a moron. He tries to hold everybody hostage until he get what he wants. That guy is a ball-buster who likes to play games and pit teams against each other.

I don't blame KW for walking away. I can't stand that guy he is bad for baseball.

NYSF

Um, Boras does what's best for his client, and as far as I can tell, most of his clients are very happy with Boras' results.

Scott Boras does his job very well. So does Magglio Ordonez. Do you hate Magglio Ordonez?

RedPinStripes
12-14-2002, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Um, Boras does what's best for his client, and as far as I can tell, most of his clients are very happy with Boras' results.

Scott Boras does his job very well. So does Magglio Ordonez. Do you hate Magglio Ordonez?

Magglio makes the fans happy. Boras makes Sox fans VERY unhappy. Big difference between the 2.

MarkEdward
12-14-2002, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Magglio makes the fans happy. Boras makes Sox fans VERY unhappy. Big difference between the 2.

Why would Scott Boras make fans unhappy?

kermittheefrog
12-15-2002, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Why would Scott Boras make fans unhappy?

Because he makes the players make more money duh. That way the owners can blame their ticket price hike on the guy they gave a big contract even though it takes no genius to figure out ticket prices are about supply and demand not player salaries.

Iwritecode
12-16-2002, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Because he makes the players make more money duh. That way the owners can blame their ticket price hike on the guy they gave a big contract even though it takes no genius to figure out ticket prices are about supply and demand not player salaries.

From the little that I remember of my business classes so long ago, the supply and demand went something like this:

Low supply + high demand = higher prices (This is to try to lower the demand and raise the supply)

High supply + low demand = lower prices (this is to try and raise the demand while lowering the supply)

Now as far as I can tell, the supply of tickets doesn't vary at all. The Sox have 81 X 40,000+ tickets to sell each and every year. It's only the demand that ever increases or decreases. IIRC, the demand for tickets hasn't varied too drastically over the past 5 years or so except for 2000. I'm sure the demand will be a little higher this year also because of the AS game.

So basically raising ticket prices does 2 things: lowers the demand for them & gives JR more money. Amazingly I don't recall them lowering ticket prices to try and raise the demand. All we get is a handful of half-price games.

I just don't understand how they can base ticket prices on supply and demand when the supply is a set amount every year and the demand varies so little...

hold2dibber
12-16-2002, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
Come on Lip, now I know we lack creativity, but Boras is a moron. He tries to hold everybody hostage until he get what he wants. That guy is a ball-buster who likes to play games and pit teams against each other.


That doesn't make him a moron, it makes him a genius. An a**hole, but a very smart, powerful, and rich a**hole.

NewyorkSoxFan
12-16-2002, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
That doesn't make him a moron, it makes him a genius. An a**hole, but a very smart, powerful, and rich a**hole.

Tu'chet!! or something like that.


NYSF

Where is HSC I need a good rumor?

Soxheads
12-16-2002, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
Tu'chet!! or something like that.


NYSF

Where is HSC I need a good rumor?

Touché?

Unregistered
12-16-2002, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
Where is HSC I need a good rumor?
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
Where is HSC when you need her?

Can we PLEASE ban this phrase? (no offense, NYSF. But that's TWICE from you in one day!)

RichH55
12-17-2002, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by Unregistered
Can we PLEASE ban this phrase? (no offense, NYSF. But that's TWICE from you in one day!)


Tinker Tinker Tinker