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Lip Man 1
12-12-2002, 11:16 PM
You know something is dreadfully wrong with the process when Billy Pierce is no longer eligible for the Hall Of Fame but guys (who were good but not great ) like Don Kessinger, Mickey Lolich and Vada Pinson still are.

Absolutely amazing.

Lip

WinningUgly!
12-12-2002, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
You know something is dreadfully wrong with the process when Billy Pierce is no longer eligible for the Hall Of Fame but guys (who were good but not great ) like Don Kessinger, Mickey Lolich and Vada Pinson still are.

Absolutely amazing.

Lip

That sucks.

TornLabrum
12-12-2002, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
You know something is dreadfully wrong with the process when Billy Pierce is no longer eligible for the Hall Of Fame but guys (who were good but not great ) like Don Kessinger, Mickey Lolich and Vada Pinson still are.

Absolutely amazing.

Lip

If Pierce is not on the HOF ballot, Pete Rose shouldn't be either. Pierce does have character. He's just a terrific person. He and Gloria were at the WCSF annual meeting last Sunday. He was the first of our guest ex-players to arrive and the last to leave. He made sure he took time to thank everyone for their contributions to CBCC, whcih he chaired for years. He even stood in line with the salad bar with everyone else, no insistance in going first or anything like that. In fact I was in the last fourth of the people in line, and he was right in front of me.

One thing that was great to see Sunday was Billy and Minnie together. I only wish Nellie Fox were alive so he could have been there to complete the trio of my childhood heros.

Jerry_Manuel
12-12-2002, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
That sucks.

I agree.

Which is why that whole Rose debate is lame.

The hall is messed up. I don't need to see a plaque to know Pierce was a great pitcher, or Rose was a great hitter.

I'm not losing sleep over who is in or not in the hall. I have more important things to think about.

Lip Man 1
12-12-2002, 11:50 PM
Hal:

I'm going to give Billy a call on Friday just to let him know we're thinking about him. And how about posting a 'report" on who came and what happened at your meeting? (and what was discussed...)

Lip

OfficerKarkovice
12-12-2002, 11:57 PM
Is he still eligible for selection by the Veteran's Committee?

idseer
12-13-2002, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
Is he still eligible for selection by the Veteran's Committee?

in fact isn't there a limited time they are allowed by the rules to be eligible?
kessinger, pinson and lolich haven't been retired as long, have they? besides i don't expect any of them to make the hall either.

and pierce certainly will be eligible for the veterans committee. isn't that how fox got in?

lastly, jerry is right on with his post. and it's really more political than sports oriented.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-13-2002, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by idseer
...and it's really more political than sports oriented.

:hurt
"Political? Tell me about it."

:moron
"Haha! Baseball let's morons like me decide who the all-time greats are. Maybe I'll vote for myself!"

CiscoCarlos
12-13-2002, 09:41 AM
Maybe if Billy Pierce had just a tad of Roses' meanness, he'd already be in the Hall of Fame.

White Sox management used to bemoan the fact that no matter what Pierce would not throw inside. He wouldn't even brush back players who crowded the plate. They claimed if he had made that one change he would have won far more games.

Pierce retorted to Dave Condon of the Chicago Tribune that, "Let's just say that I'm the way I am. I love to play baseball, but I don't want to risk hurting anyone just to chalk up a win. When I leave, I want to remember that I played the game the way it was supposed to be played--as a game. I'll have to live with myself after I've been forgotten as a White Sox pitcher."

Paulwny
12-13-2002, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by CiscoCarlos
Maybe if Billy Pierce had just a tad of Roses' meanness, he'd already be in the Hall of Fame.



It also would have helped if the Chi. press had pushed for Pierce.

cheeses_h_rice
12-13-2002, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Paulwny
It also would have helped if the Chi. press had pushed for Pierce.

:moron

"Pierce"? That's Sammy's cigar guy down in Florida, right?

Lip Man 1
12-13-2002, 12:19 PM
Gang:

Pierce was eliminated from the Veterans Committee Ballot, which means he's done.

That shocked me because under the new rules all the living Hall Of Famers are now voters and plenty of guys who played with or against Billy (like Bob Feller, Stan Musial and Brooks Robinson) are still alive.

I spoke with Billy this morning and he's fine. Really I don't think this bothers him as much as us fans of his here at WSI, but he said that he appreciated the support of the folks here, and wanted to wish all Sox fans a happy holiday! (Just a classy guy!) He also gave me Jungle Jim Rivera's off season (winter) address in Florida.

I'm going to try to track him down for the January Q & A.

Lip

idseer
12-13-2002, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Gang:

Pierce was eliminated from the Veterans Committee Ballot, which means he's done.

That shocked me because under the new rules all the living Hall Of Famers are now voters and plenty of guys who played with or against Billy (like Bob Feller, Stan Musial and Brooks Robinson) are still alive.

I spoke with Billy this morning and he's fine. Really I don't think this bothers him as much as us fans of his here at WSI, but he said that he appreciated the support of the folks here, and wanted to wish all Sox fans a happy holiday! (Just a classy guy!) He also gave me Jungle Jim Rivera's off season (winter) address in Florida.

I'm going to try to track him down for the January Q & A.

Lip

i didn't realize there WAS any elimination from the vet. ballot.
on one hand it really is a shame as billy certainly deserves the honor, and not just because he's a nice guy. there was no better pitcher then pierce in the mid/late 50's.
otoh i'm glad to hear he's not particularly bothered by it. he knows, we know, and his teammates and opponents know and that's all that really matters.

the fact he's the kind of guy he is is more important anyway. i mean, who would you rather be friends with ... pete rose or billy pierce?

ps ... looking forward to hearing about jungle jim. :smile:

wassagstdu
12-13-2002, 01:24 PM
I loved to watch Luis Aparicio and Nellie Fox play, but Billy Pierce is the main reason I became a baseball fan, and come to think of it, probably one of the main reasons I have remained one for nearly 50 years. He is one of those people whose character just shines. You could see it in his demeanor on the field, in the way he would stop and sign autographs for kids, in his long-time continued relationship with Sox fans and the organization, how obviously thrilled he was when his number was retired, and how he handles things like not getting a start in the '59 series and now getting dropped from the HOF where he clearly belongs. A friend who grew up in NY and was as devoted to the Yankees as I was to the Sox told me he always thought Pierce was a better pitcher than Whitey Ford and that is at the very least debatable I think.

Any truth to the story that Al Lopez didn't support Nellie Fox for the HOF because Fox let him have it for slighting Pierce in the '59 series??

SI1020
12-13-2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Gang:

Pierce was eliminated from the Veterans Committee Ballot, which means he's done.

That shocked me because under the new rules all the living Hall Of Famers are now voters and plenty of guys who played with or against Billy (like Bob Feller, Stan Musial and Brooks Robinson) are still alive.

I spoke with Billy this morning and he's fine. Really I don't think this bothers him as much as us fans of his here at WSI, but he said that he appreciated the support of the folks here, and wanted to wish all Sox fans a happy holiday! (Just a classy guy!) He also gave me Jungle Jim Rivera's off season (winter) address in Florida.

I'm going to try to track him down for the January Q & A.

Lip I didn't know this. I didn't know this. Yes, I am stuttering and stammering because this just ain't right. Some people will never get their just due. A true meritocracy does not exist anywhere. Billy Pierce was at least as good as Jim Bunning and superior to Catfish Hunter, both HOFers. Oh well, please give Billy my warmest regards next time you speak to him. Of course I look forward to your Jungle Jim Rivera interview.

Daver
12-13-2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by SI1020
I didn't know this. I didn't know this. Yes, I am stuttering and stammering because this just ain't right. Some people will never get their just due. A true meritocracy does not exist anywhere. Billy Pierce was at least as good as Jim Bunning and superior to Catfish Hunter, both HOFers. Oh well, please give Billy my warmest regards next time you speak to him. Of course I look forward to your Jungle Jim Rivera interview.

Milt Pappas has a better won-loss record than Don Drysdale,and pitched longer than Don did,yet Don is in the hall and Milt is not.

TornLabrum
12-14-2002, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Hal:

I'm going to give Billy a call on Friday just to let him know we're thinking about him. And how about posting a 'report" on who came and what happened at your meeting? (and what was discussed...)

Lip

I would if I could, but I can't, so I won't - at least in terms of what was said. The reason I can't is that I have to write an article on the luncheon for the club newsletter that comes out just before SoxFest.

As for who was there, Minnie, Billy, and Donn Pall were there, along with Dave Wills, who did the interview portion of the program. I'll be interviewing Pall over our winter break for the newsletter in a "where are they now" type piece.

TornLabrum
12-14-2002, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by daver
Milt Pappas has a better won-loss record than Don Drysdale,and pitched longer than Don did,yet Don is in the hall and Milt is not.

And Milt called the afternoon show on ESPN-1000 yesterday to remind them of that, too.

Lip Man 1
12-14-2002, 01:16 AM
Hal:

See if Donn wants to do an interview for WSI (that is if the Sox will let him...)

Lip

TornLabrum
12-14-2002, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Hal:

See if Donn wants to do an interview for WSI (that is if the Sox will let him...)

Lip

Will do. He had a lot of interesting things to say about some of the movement of players recently and how that might relate to the MLBPA that I doubt will make it into my fluff piece about the luncheon or my interview.