PDA

View Full Version : Did Maggs for Griffey almost happen?


the scorekeeper
12-12-2002, 03:30 PM
I probably missed this someplace else on the board....

"Before Thanksgiving, the Reds thought they were close to trading Griffey to the White Sox for All-Star outfielder Magglio Ordonez. The White Sox deliberated for nearly a week, a Reds official said, before backing off."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/2002-12-10-majors_x.htm

Jjav829
12-12-2002, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by the scorekeeper
"Before Thanksgiving, the Reds thought they were close to trading Griffey to the White Sox for All-Star outfielder Magglio Ordonez. The White Sox deliberated for nearly a week, a Reds official said, before backing off."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/2002-12-10-majors_x.htm

What does this say about KW? They deliberated for nearly a week? You know how long I would have deliberated....2 seconds!!! And then I would have said hell no. What a moron. Yeah lets trade our 28 year old superstar who is one of the best players in the game and had an MVP type season last year, for a 33 year old former superstar who used to be one of the best in the game but now can't find a way to stay on the field.Good idea KW. I bet Jim Bowden and co. laughed their asses off thinking that KW might actually agree to that trade. What an idiot.

fuzzy_patters
12-12-2002, 03:40 PM
Thank god the Sox didn't make that trade. We don't want to be the Cubs. I don't want Alou, McGriff, Griffey, Mo Vaughn, Greg Vaughn, or even Wild Thing Vaughn if it costs us a young star. Let's stick with the stars of this decade, and let the stars of the last decade rot on the vine somewhere else.

Viva Magglio
12-12-2002, 03:46 PM
The fact that they even thought about trading Mágglio Ordóńez is infuriating! For this alone, Williams should be fired.

:angry: :angry: :angry:

Rocklive99
12-12-2002, 03:49 PM
I would also reject that in 2 seconds, but just be happy that he didn't add Crede and Malone and then make the trade ;)

jeremyb1
12-12-2002, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by the scorekeeper
I probably missed this someplace else on the board....

"Before Thanksgiving, the Reds thought they were close to trading Griffey to the White Sox for All-Star outfielder Magglio Ordonez. The White Sox deliberated for nearly a week, a Reds official said, before backing off."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/2002-12-10-majors_x.htm

i really wish things like that didn't happen. things like this and our attempted deal for erstad have shaken my confidence in kw as much if not more than the deals he has actually made. i can't for the life of me understand why we'd even consider that deal outside of marketing purposes.

Bobby Thigpen
12-12-2002, 04:04 PM
Just when I didn't think it was humanly possible to alienate Sox fans any more than they already have, they almost pull this trade. I think this would have drove even the most diehard Sox fan over the edge. Why didn't they just throw in Buehrle, Konerko, and Frank on top of the deal? That sounds like the perfect KW deal. :thigpen

Viva Magglio
12-12-2002, 04:09 PM
I demand right now that the White Sox formally issue a press release either denying that this ever happened...or to announce Williams' removal as GM. I don't care that it's the day before the winter meetings. KW not being there would be an improvement anyway. This has angered me so much that I am having a hard time concentrating on my work!!!

I cannot get over the fact that they even thought of doing this. I think we should attend SoxFest en masse and use it as a forum to demand Williams' immediate ouster!!!

hold2dibber
12-12-2002, 04:11 PM
I agree that that would be a ridiculously horrible trade. But take it with a grain of salt - the media isn't always right. Who knows if this story is true (or maybe it's only partially right - maybe the Sox mulled it over for a week to try to find a way to get Kearns or Dunn or some other youngster into the deal).

SoxxoS
12-12-2002, 04:20 PM
Everyone give KW a break on this one. We are taking this statement by a Reds official as Scripture. What does he know? We have no idea what the Reds offered, or what the specifications were. What happens if they offered Griffey and Austin Kearns, and agreed to pay half of Griffey's salary? That probably didn't happen, but WE DON'T KNOW. Except for hsc, of course. :smile:

Let's not overreact on what a Reds official said.

OneDog
12-12-2002, 04:23 PM
I don't know how true this was. I don't think the Reds would trade for Maggs because they are sold on Kearns and Dunn, which means that they're set at the corner outfield spots. Maggs is very athletic, but I don't think that the Reds would want him as a CF. Unless Kearns or Dunn could be everyday CF's, which I doubt. Anyway, Maggs is still here.

Jjav829
12-12-2002, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by OneDog
I don't know how true this was. I don't think the Reds would trade for Maggs because they are sold on Kearns and Dunn, which means that they're set at the corner outfield spots. Maggs is very athletic, but I don't think that the Reds would want him as a CF. Unless Kearns or Dunn could be everyday CF's, which I doubt. Anyway, Maggs is still here.

Well they do want to move Dunn to 1st base and get rid of Casey which would leave a hole in the OF so it's not entirely out of question.

OneDog
12-12-2002, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Well they do want to move Dunn to 1st base and get rid of Casey which would leave a hole in the OF so it's not entirely out of question.

Oh. I didn't know that things between Casey and the Reds had soured that much.

Viva Magglio
12-12-2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Everyone give KW a break on this one. We are taking this statement by a Reds official as Scripture. What does he know? We have no idea what the Reds offered, or what the specifications were. What happens if they offered Griffey and Austin Kearns, and agreed to pay half of Griffey's salary? That probably didn't happen, but WE DON'T KNOW. Except for hsc, of course. :smile:

Let's not overreact on what a Reds official said.

Why should we give KW a break? The guy has done nothing but burn our team down while Emperor Reinsdorf continues to play his fiddle. Considering KW's record, I would not put this past him at all.

And I don't care if the Reds offered JESUS CHRIST for Maggs. Maggs is our franchise's cornerstone, and trading him would destroy the White Sox franchise.

hold2dibber
12-12-2002, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Why should we give KW a break? The guy has done nothing but burn our team down while Emperor Reinsdorf continues to play his fiddle. Considering KW's record, I would not put this past him at all.

And I don't care if the Reds offered JESUS CHRIST for Maggs. Maggs is our franchise's cornerstone, and trading him would destroy the White Sox franchise.

Well, its one thing to rip him for things he has done, another thing to rip him for things nobody knows whether or not he has actually done.

And destroy the franchise? That may be just a tad of an overstatement. I wouldn't trade Maggs for Griffey, but I would trade him for Vlad Guerrero (even if we had to throw in Biddle or Ginter or someone like that).

Alternatively, what if the Reds offered Jesus Christ, St. Paul and an apostle to be named later? You know, as a carpenter, Christ is well known to be impressive with the lumber.

guillen4life13
12-12-2002, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Well, its one thing to rip him for things he has done, another thing to rip him for things nobody knows whether or not he has actually done.

And destroy the franchise? That may be just a tad of an overstatement. I wouldn't trade Maggs for Griffey, but I would trade him for Vlad Guerrero (even if we had to throw in Biddle or Ginter or someone like that).

Alternatively, what if the Reds offered Jesus Christ, St. Paul and an apostle to be named later? You know, as a carpenter, Christ is well known to be impressive with the lumber.

LOL

bc2k
12-12-2002, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Alternatively, what if the Reds offered Jesus Christ, St. Paul and an apostle to be named later? You know, as a carpenter, Christ is well known to be impressive with the lumber.

Pretty good. :D: And talk about a drawing card. People come from overseas to see Mother Teresa on a muffin, they'd also come to see Him go first to third. And from what I've heard, JC is a five tool player. Although since He is on the White Sox, he still wouldn't get as much press as the other Jesus - Prior.

Chisox353014
12-12-2002, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
And I don't care if the Reds offered JESUS CHRIST for Maggs. Maggs is our franchise's cornerstone, and trading him would destroy the White Sox franchise.

That would be impossible, since He already plays right field for the Flubs. I believe they also have the Father and the Holy Ghost in their starting rotation, not to mention a few of the really good Apostles at first and second.

Dadawg_77
12-12-2002, 05:14 PM
Hey, KW heard an offer took some time to think it over and said no. I would think about but probably not pull the trigger just because you are not sure if Jr can regain his old form. If Jr. had his old form, I'll do the trade in a second but the risk of return to is to much.

MarqSox
12-12-2002, 05:53 PM
That's the thing, just because there was a report that we were considering Griffey for Ordonez doesn't mean it was entirely accurate. Who knows, it could have been something like Griffey and Dunn for Ordonez and Liefer or something like that ... that's still probably a stretch, but it would be more irresponsible of KW to just dismiss it out of hand without pondering it.

I'm happy that KW 1.) Gave the offer its fair consideration, and 2.) Ultimately made the right choice. What's so wrong with that?

mike squires
12-12-2002, 06:10 PM
Viva Magglio~I'm with you. It will be interesting to see Kenny dodge all of these questions at Soxfest. The only problem is...he does just that. I attended one of the seminars last year and Kenny dodged all of them. He is such a smooth talker. I guarentee that the Sox will do something around Soxfest that will surprize some folks and make him look like a genious...for the time being anyway.

oldcomiskey
12-12-2002, 06:19 PM
WHOA HOLD IT------how do you know this actually happened? I mean you live in Chicago and you doubt the press anyway------and now you take this to be true--we have a saying in Dixie that sums that up---Damn y'all are dumb

SouthSideHitman
12-12-2002, 07:49 PM
If KW is considering trading Mags then he has no right to be in any postion of power in the organization. However, i don't think that he really made a serious offer, because i couldn't think of any production related reason of Griffey for Mags. If KW thinks that trading a productive, young, popular player brought up by the Sox for an injury-riddled unproductive HOF hopeful instead of a pitcher that we desperatly need then he doesn't know what Sox fans want - WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jerry_Manuel
12-12-2002, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
And I don't care if the Reds offered JESUS CHRIST for Maggs. Maggs is our franchise's cornerstone, and trading him would destroy the White Sox franchise.

Some cornerstone, he'll be gone when his contract is up.

2003: $9.0M
2004: $14.0M

After 2004 then what?

T Dog
12-12-2002, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Alternatively, what if the Reds offered Jesus Christ, St. Paul and an apostle to be named later?

They would still have to name the apostle before we could evaluate the trade.

bc2k
12-12-2002, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Some cornerstone, he'll be gone when his contract is up.

2003: $9.0M
2004: $14.0M

After 2004 then what?

I remember when Foulke signed his two year extension. I wondered why a $10 million dollar contract would be paid out unevenly at $4 mil for the first year and $6 mil for the second. I found out my answer when he was traded away. The Sox saved $1 million this way.

I can't help but think this is why Magglio's contract is backloaded - so they can keep him around for as long and as cheaply as they can. I can see the Sox trading Magglio for a bunch of prospects before the 2004 season. If the Sox are in the division race, he will probably stay the whole year to avoid White Flag II backlash and be traded after the season. But if the Sox are out of contention in July, I can see Magglio being traded mid-season.

I think if Borchard lights it up in AAA, it will only make KW's decision easier since Borchard can take over in right.

When I started writing this, I was angerily predicting that this is all about money and is typical of this organization. Now I'm thinking about all the prospects this one man can bring for us. If Borchard is the stud he is hyped to be, and we get some top prospects, I can live with this trade. Think about it, it's not like Borchard is a true center fielder anyway (although Daver will not agree with this). Actually I don't know that for a fact though, I'd like to see more of him there to make a concrete opinion. Right now I just can't picture an outfield of Lee, Borchard, and Magglio.

But maybe it is common for superstar contracts to be so heavily backloaded and I'm making something out of nothing.

Daver
12-12-2002, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
I remember when Foulke signed his two year extension. I wondered why a $10 million dollar contract would be paid out unevenly at $4 mil for the first year and $6 mil for the second. I found out my answer when he was traded away. The Sox saved $1 million this way.

I can't help but think this is why Magglio's contract is backloaded - so they can keep him around for as long and as cheaply as they can. I can see the Sox trading Magglio for a bunch of prospects before the 2004 season. If the Sox are in the division race, he will probably stay the whole year to avoid White Flag II backlash and be traded after the season. But if the Sox are out of contention in July, I can see Magglio being traded mid-season.

I think if Borchard lights it up in AAA, it will only make KW's decision easier since Borchard can take over in right.

When I started writing this, I was angerily predicting that this is all about money and is typical of this organization. Now I'm thinking about all the prospects this one man can bring for us. If Borchard is the stud he is hyped to be, and we get some top prospects, I can live with this trade. Think about it, it's not like Borchard is a true center fielder anyway (although Daver will not agree with this). Actually I don't know that for a fact though, I'd like to see more of him there to make a concrete opinion. Right now I just can't picture an outfield of Lee, Borchard, and Magglio.

But maybe it is common for superstar contracts to be so heavily backloaded and I'm making something out of nothing.

I never said Borchard was a true CF'er,I said he was enough of an athlete to play the position.

You could get a hundred prospects in a trade for Magglio Ordonez,but there is no guarantee any of them will ever produce,you trade a proven commodity for similar value or you tend to lose on the deal,unless you are outright dumping salary.

Backloaded contracts are not uncommon to MLB,but are far more prevelant in the NFL,since they are not guaranteed contracts in the NFL.

Viva Magglio
12-12-2002, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
I can't help but think this is why Magglio's contract is backloaded - so they can keep him around for as long and as cheaply as they can. I can see the Sox trading Magglio for a bunch of prospects before the 2004 season. If the Sox are in the division race, he will probably stay the whole year to avoid White Flag II backlash and be traded after the season. But if the Sox are out of contention in July, I can see Magglio being traded mid-season.

If they do that, the Sox can kiss my season ticket account for 2004 goodbye.

jeremyb1
12-12-2002, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Some cornerstone, he'll be gone when his contract is up.

2003: $9.0M
2004: $14.0M

After 2004 then what?

what is the basis for that comment? negativity for the sake of negativity just annoys me at this point. i've heard no comments from the organization or anyone else that we can't or won't keep maggs past 2004.

in the last few years we've already paid money to foulke, konerko, and paully to extend their deals. we traded foulke but the cash will end up being a wash so how did that allow us to save money? we locked frank up for the rest of his career. you can argue all you want about the clause but its not like we tried to cut bait on frank when he was our best hitter as maggs currenlty is.

just because reinsdorf let some pitchers go because he doesn't like to sign pitchers to long term deals that doesn't mean he won't resign maggs. if it was a pitcher maybe your argument would have some validity but there is absolutely no basis for this comment.

Jerry_Manuel
12-12-2002, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
what is the basis for that comment? negativity for the sake of negativity just annoys me at this point. i've heard no comments from the organization or anyone else that we can't or won't keep maggs past 2004.

I fully expect Magglio to improve his numbers over the next two years. Which would mean he would be in line for close to 17 million per year.

I don't see Reinsdorf paying that kind of money.

Lip Man 1
12-12-2002, 11:37 PM
BC2K says:

Now I'm thinking about all the prospects this one man can bring for us.

Just wondering BC.....

At what point do you draw the line and say "enough" with "rebuilding?"

The Sox have been rebuilding after the 94 strike, with the White Flag trade in 97 and last season. That's three times in less then ten years.

Are the Sox always to be rebuilding every three to four years? How does anyone ever expect to win with that philosophy simply because of the constant turnover.

Lip

bc2k
12-13-2002, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
BC2K says:

Now I'm thinking about all the prospects this one man can bring for us.

Just wondering BC.....

At what point do you draw the line and say "enough" with "rebuilding?"

The Sox have been rebuilding after the 94 strike, with the White Flag trade in 97 and last season. That's three times in less then ten years.

Are the Sox always to be rebuilding every three to four years? How does anyone ever expect to win with that philosophy simply because of the constant turnover.

Lip

You know, I was thinking the same thing as I typed it. I thought if Borchard could come close to Magglio's numbers while playing better defense, it would be a near wash with loads of cash saved. That cash can then be spent on pitching. I guess this is deja vu with the whole Thomas situation and how his $10 million could be better spent.

I hate to sound like I'm always in favor of rebuilding because that is not my point of view. I really don't know what to think. I would just like to forget this "sustained success" junk and just buy two Pennants in a row. Then I wouldn't care if JR pulled a Florida Marlins.

RichH55
12-13-2002, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
I remember when Foulke signed his two year extension. I wondered why a $10 million dollar contract would be paid out unevenly at $4 mil for the first year and $6 mil for the second. I found out my answer when he was traded away. The Sox saved $1 million this way.

I can't help but think this is why Magglio's contract is backloaded - so they can keep him around for as long and as cheaply as they can. I can see the Sox trading Magglio for a bunch of prospects before the 2004 season. If the Sox are in the division race, he will probably stay the whole year to avoid White Flag II backlash and be traded after the season. But if the Sox are out of contention in July, I can see Magglio being traded mid-season.

I think if Borchard lights it up in AAA, it will only make KW's decision easier since Borchard can take over in right.

When I started writing this, I was angerily predicting that this is all about money and is typical of this organization. Now I'm thinking about all the prospects this one man can bring for us. If Borchard is the stud he is hyped to be, and we get some top prospects, I can live with this trade. Think about it, it's not like Borchard is a true center fielder anyway (although Daver will not agree with this). Actually I don't know that for a fact though, I'd like to see more of him there to make a concrete opinion. Right now I just can't picture an outfield of Lee, Borchard, and Magglio.

But maybe it is common for superstar contracts to be so heavily backloaded and I'm making something out of nothing.


Backloading contracts is a common thing...its simple Finance, though judging by my test grades perhaps I'm not the most qualified to speak about this. But essentially a dollar today is worth more than a dollar a year from now, so if you can give 9 million this year and 11 million the next, it makes more sense from a financial point of view. And yes you have to take the financial view into account as well

hose
12-13-2002, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by the scorekeeper
I probably missed this someplace else on the board....

"Before Thanksgiving, the Reds thought they were close to trading Griffey to the White Sox for All-Star outfielder Magglio Ordonez. The White Sox deliberated for nearly a week, a Reds official said, before backing off."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/2002-12-10-majors_x.htm

A week? more like 5 seconds.

This same "Reds Official" said that Frank Thomas desperately wanted out of Chicago.

Remember last year when Ray Durham sais that he would not sign with a west coast team because he wanted to be closer to his family?

Players, agents, GM's all use the press to their advantage