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jeremyb1
12-12-2002, 01:08 PM
according to white sox.com
General manager Ken Williams, who refers to Paul as "solid" and Olivo as having "the whole package," also expects to sign a veteran catcher as insurance. Other than Ivan Rodriguez, the list of available free agent catchers includes the likes of Chad Krueter (Dodgers), Eddie Perez (Indians), Joe Girardi (Cubs), Greg Myers (A's), Tom Lampkin (Padres), Bill Haselman (Rangers) and John Flaherty (Devil Rays).

anyone have any preferences amongs the guys on that list? i'd tend to favor flaherty and girardi (even if he is a former cub).

Hullett_Fan
12-12-2002, 01:17 PM
anyone have any preferences amongs the guys on that list? i'd tend to favor flaherty and girardi (even if he is a former cub).

Girardi would be a good influence on the young staff.

But if KW comes away from these meetings with only a backup catcher...I'm going to....

:chunks

CHISOXFAN13
12-12-2002, 01:22 PM
If I'm not mistaken Eddie Perez was Maddux' personal catcher for several seasons. Obviously he knows how to gandle a pitcher. Flaherty, in my opinion, is the best offensive catcher of the group. Girardi would also be a good option .

mrwag
12-12-2002, 02:13 PM
We need the best defensive catcher, and the one who can call the best game. Offense shouldn't be our priority with this position.

duke of dorwood
12-12-2002, 02:40 PM
Get Girardi, has a winning backround.

fuzzy_patters
12-12-2002, 03:25 PM
I wouldn't mind Chad Krueter getting a third stint with the Good Guys. He's a guy that has always been good with young pitchers, and that's the kind of guy we need.

I'll never forget when he was James Baldwin's personal catcher, and that worked out pretty well. JB turned his career around for half a season with Chad. When Chad left the Sox, JB went to hell again. Then the Sox reacquired him, and it was another JB career resurgance. Once Krueter was gone, JB sucked some more.

There's an added benefit, too. He got in a fight with Cubs fans. You can't fault a guy for that.

jeremyb1
12-12-2002, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by mrwag
We need the best defensive catcher, and the one who can call the best game. Offense shouldn't be our priority with this position.

i agree. veteran leadership, game calling, and defense should be prioritized when adding a new veteran catcher. i don't really feel like alomar provided any of those in his time here.

OneDog
12-12-2002, 04:12 PM
I've got a sick feeling that KW will come away with someone less than mediocre and actually try to convince us that (ala Todd Ritchie).
Knowing KW this less than mediocre backup catcher will probably be someone like Todd (remember me I left my job as a pizza place manager to sit on my a** and back up Mike Piazza) Pratt.

hold2dibber
12-12-2002, 04:13 PM
Does anyone have a feel for Michael Barrett (?) of the Expos? He is, apparently, on the block as the Expos look to trim payroll (I think he'll make about $2.5 mm next year).

OneDog
12-12-2002, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Does anyone have a feel for Michael Barrett (?) of the Expos? He is, apparently, on the block as the Expos look to trim payroll (I think he'll make about $2.5 mm next year).

I'd be okay with Barrett. Anyone know how old he is? I think the Sox want someone with a little more experience just to act as a stopgap for Olivo. But, if Barrett is relatively young and is honestly better than Olivo, then by all means bring him here. Another thing to worry about is Expos GM Omar Minaya. he may take KW to the woodshed the way Billy Beane does.

jeremyb1
12-12-2002, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by OneDog
But, if Barrett is relatively young and is honestly better than Olivo, then by all means bring him here. Another thing to worry about is Expos GM Omar Minaya. he may take KW to the woodshed the way Billy Beane does.

they shouldn't ask for too much for barret. we should have leverage knowing they have a catcher that's just as good and makes a fraction of what barrett does.

MarkEdward
12-12-2002, 04:33 PM
First, I think Greg Myers was signed by the Blue Jays yesterday. Second, out of these available catchers, Chad Kreuter or Tom Lampkin would be great pick-ups.

Third, I think people are buying into this "veteran presence" thing a bit too much. What will Joe Girardi teach Olivo to do? How not to get on base? How to suck for 15 years and yet still be employed by a major league ballclub?

OneDog
12-12-2002, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
they shouldn't ask for too much for barret. we should have leverage knowing they have a catcher that's just as good and makes a fraction of what barrett does.

I agree with you that they SHOULDN'T ask too much. But with KW's history, they probably WILL ask to much.

jeremyb1
12-12-2002, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by OneDog
I agree with you that they SHOULDN'T ask too much. But with KW's history, they probably WILL ask to much.

this is true.

OneDog
12-12-2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
What will Joe Girardi teach Olivo? How to suck for 15 years and yet still be employed by a major league ballclub?

I could teach Olivo how to do that. It's simple. Sign with the Cubs. Ha Ha Ha
:)

RichH55
12-12-2002, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
If I'm not mistaken Eddie Perez was Maddux' personal catcher for several seasons. Obviously he knows how to gandle a pitcher. Flaherty, in my opinion, is the best offensive catcher of the group. Girardi would also be a good option .


How to gandle a pitcher? That sounds both dirty and painful;)

RichH55
12-12-2002, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
they shouldn't ask for too much for barret. we should have leverage knowing they have a catcher that's just as good and makes a fraction of what barrett does.

Agreed...but if Montreal wants something of value Im not for it...Ill take him as a salary dump, but otherwise just pick up a FA

Lip Man 1
12-12-2002, 07:50 PM
Two points in favor of Girardi, both come under the "leadership" mantle (not Mickey!)

1. He was the guy who ripped into Sosa for having his music to loud as I recall

2. He was the guy who acted as "spokesperson" during the tragic Darryl Kile episode and before the new labor agreement was signed.

I don't think Joe would have any trouble keeping Frank in line in the clubhouse, and considering the bad feelings between Thomas and Williams that may be needed since I'm not sure Manager Gandhi can do it.

Lip

Daver
12-12-2002, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Two points in favor of Girardi, both come under the "leadership" mantle (not Mickey!)

1. He was the guy who ripped into Sosa for having his music to loud as I recall

2. He was the guy who acted as "spokesperson" during the tragic Darryl Kile episode and before the new labor agreement was signed.

I don't think Joe would have any trouble keeping Frank in line in the clubhouse, and considering the bad feelings between Thomas and Williams that may be needed since I'm not sure Manager Gandhi can do it.

Lip

There is the question of his diminished skills,which were marginal to begin with.

MarkEdward
12-12-2002, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
[B]Two points in favor of Girardi, both come under the "leadership" mantle (not Mickey!)

1. He was the guy who ripped into Sosa for having his music to loud as I recall

And...?


2. He was the guy who acted as "spokesperson" during the tragic Darryl Kile episode and before the new labor agreement was signed.

And...? Jeff Liefer is our player rep. Should he be made the cornerstone of our organization?

RichH55
12-12-2002, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
And...?




And...? Jeff Liefer is our player rep. Should he be made the cornerstone of our organization?


Backup catcher =Cornerstone? What the hell are you smoking? We need a backup catcher, hopefully a veteran....Joe fills that bill nicely...whats your problem?

Daver
12-12-2002, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Backup catcher =Cornerstone? What the hell are you smoking? We need a backup catcher, hopefully a veteran....Joe fills that bill nicely...whats your problem?

The Sox need a starting catcher,Josh Paul is a backup catcher.

Soxheads
12-12-2002, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by daver
The Sox need a starting catcher,Josh Paul is a backup catcher.

He shouldn't even be that. He should be locked in a cage where we can make him dance and throw popcorn at him.

mike squires
12-12-2002, 09:38 PM
I truly believe Olivo (depending on spring training) should be starting catcher....but Williams will sign Ivan Rodriguez and call that the big move of the off season....he will get hurt and Olivo will then start but lose his position to Josh Paul who will tear it up hitting .350 in a two week period but will be replaced by Manual's tinkering tendencies leaving Paul to start only on Sunday's...We'll be 20 games back by this time and we will all be writing posts saying we should have gotten Girardi who's getting ready to win yet another World Series for the Yankees...sigh, the life of a Sox fan.

Daver
12-12-2002, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by mike squires
I truly believe Olivo (depending on spring training) should be starting catcher....but Williams will sign Ivan Rodriguez and call that the big move of the off season

Olivo should start the season in Charlotte,and if KW wastes a ton of money on Ivan Rodriguez I will probably get violent,and yes I know where he lives.

OneDog
12-12-2002, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by daver
and if KW wastes a ton of money on Ivan Rodriguez I will probably get violent,and yes I know where he lives.

:KW

That's great. Just what I need. A hunting enthusiast Ted Nugent fan, who already thinks I'm an idiot, knows where I live. Now I gotta join witness protection.


:)

jeremyb1
12-12-2002, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by daver
Olivo should start the season in Charlotte,and if KW wastes a ton of money on Ivan Rodriguez I will probably get violent,and yes I know where he lives.

why start olivo in charlotte? he's already 24 and he's been through AA twice. admitedly his game calling skills could use a little work but that's why we hire a veteran who knows how to handle a staff to work alongside him. he doesn't need to hit much more than .240 or .250 which his minor league numbers suggest he can hit now to justifty starting him considering how good he is defensively.

what are we supposed to do start another player like alomar? he was a total disaster. he didn't handle the staff half as well as mj cost us 3 million a year and didn't throw out runners either. he occasionally hit well but it wasn't worth it.

dkings34
12-12-2002, 10:19 PM
I personally think the yanks will sign Ivan Rodriguez and then we maybe able to sign jorge posada which would be great for the young staff seeing the staff he's caught for with yanks.http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/Idea.gift

Daver
12-12-2002, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by dkings34
I personally think the yanks will sign Ivan Rodriguez and then we maybe able to sign jorge posada which would be great for the young staff seeing the staff he's caught for with yanks.http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/Idea.gift

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

MarkEdward
12-12-2002, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Backup catcher =Cornerstone? What the hell are you smoking? We need a backup catcher, hopefully a veteran....Joe fills that bill nicely...whats your problem?

Lip stated that we should get Girardi for his leadership skills. He then gave an example of his leadership skills, i.e. being a player rep. I responded by saying that since Jeff Liefer is our player rep, that he is not some sort of "leader" just because he holds that position. Obviously, Jeff Liefer is not a leader of this team. Therefore, just because a player is a rep doesn't make him a "leader" by default.

guillen4life13
12-12-2002, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Lip stated that we should get Girardi for his leadership skills. He then gave an example of his leadership skills, i.e. being a player rep. I responded by saying that since Jeff Liefer is our player rep, that he is not some sort of "leader" just because he holds that position. Obviously, Jeff Liefer is not a leader of this team. Therefore, just because a player is a rep doesn't make him a "leader" by default.

Here's where you may have worded yourself wrong: I think Lip was trying to say that Girardi can keep order in the clubhouse, and is one who can keep calm in crises, and keep the team from imploding. Liefer was just a player rep because Lofton left, and if Jose Valentin knew more english, he would have probably been the rep. Liefer got the job probably because he had nothing better to do. Girardi is an older, more established figure in baseball. He gets respect (except from Sham-ME).

Only problem with Girardi is that he's not that great a player. Might as well hire him as a psychological consultant for the team.

Lip Man 1
12-12-2002, 11:28 PM
Mark:

I agree with your logic and it was my fault for not explaining myself better.

As a player rep, Girardi was in the spotlight a lot, look back at how many times he was quoted in the papers. My impression is that his responses were measured, and thought out before he spoke.

To me that's part of being a leader, especially in what could be a very volatile clubhouse. A clubhouse that could have factions needs someone who won't take sides and can listen to everyone's arguments. Also the fact that he went after Sosa shows that Girardi has some guts, also something that most folks admit the Sox have been lacking in spades.

I'm sure you can come up with all the numbers needed to show he's a bum and that's fine. As I stated baseball is more then raw numbers and fantasy games.

Lip

RichH55
12-13-2002, 03:59 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Mark:

I agree with your logic and it was my fault for not explaining myself better.

As a player rep, Girardi was in the spotlight a lot, look back at how many times he was quoted in the papers. My impression is that his responses were measured, and thought out before he spoke.

To me that's part of being a leader, especially in what could be a very volatile clubhouse. A clubhouse that could have factions needs someone who won't take sides and can listen to everyone's arguments. Also the fact that he went after Sosa shows that Girardi has some guts, also something that most folks admit the Sox have been lacking in spades.

I'm sure you can come up with all the numbers needed to show he's a bum and that's fine. As I stated baseball is more then raw numbers and fantasy games.

Lip

I agree with Lip here(dont hear that often)....I'm not a fan of vets for the sake of vets, but backup catcher seems like a spot that you could make the trade-off of leadership for performance make a little more sense than if you wanted a guy to play 1B everyday because he was a positive influence