PDA

View Full Version : Leading Off .... ?


wulfy
12-11-2002, 09:51 AM
Who is going to be the Sox leadoff man this year? Will it be Jimenez? I guess with a .384 OBP, he's the best option, but he really strikes me more as a #2 hitter - puts the ball in play, moves over the runner type of guy. But is he really a base stealing threat? Anyone know what kind of numbers he put up in Charlotte?

Also, long term, is Borchard a CFer or a LFer? And if he's a LFer - can you move Lee for someone with some leadoff skills who can play CF?

MarkEdward
12-11-2002, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by wulfy
Who is going to be the Sox leadoff man this year? Will it be Jimenez? I guess with a .384 OBP, he's the best option, but he really strikes me more as a #2 hitter - puts the ball in play, moves over the runner type of guy. But is he really a base stealing threat? Anyone know what kind of numbers he put up in Charlotte?

Also, long term, is Borchard a CFer or a LFer? And if he's a LFer - can you move Lee for someone with some leadoff skills who can play CF?

I assume (and hope) it will Jimenez. There are no real "fast" players on Sox, save for Harris, and he can't get on base at a very good rate. Valentin would seem like a good choice, except he's been having trouble getting his OBP over .320. Rowand has trouble geting his OBP over .300.

If Borchard isn't playing center field by the time he's taking regular at bats, then the Sox are wasting a huge talent.

Foulke You
12-11-2002, 12:09 PM
The offense started clicking last year when Valentin was moved into the #2 spot and Jimenez leading off. I say that this has to be your lineup unless a true leadoff hitter is signed in the offseason.

wulfy
12-11-2002, 01:12 PM
So is it looking like this, barring a trade?

Jimenez - 2B
Valentin - SS
Maggs (vs. Frank?) - RF
Konerko - 1B
Frank - DH
Lee - LF
Crede - 3B
Rowand - CF
Paul - C

Frank has traditionally hit 3rd, but until he proves he gets his swing back, I think you need to have Maggs in the 3 hole. And what about Konerko vs. Frank at cleanup?

OfficerKarkovice
12-11-2002, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by wulfy
So is it looking like this, barring a trade?

Jimenez - 2B
Valentin - SS
Maggs (vs. Frank?) - RF
Konerko - 1B
Frank - DH
Lee - LF
Crede - 3B
Rowand - CF
Paul - C

Frank has traditionally hit 3rd, but until he proves he gets his swing back, I think you need to have Maggs in the 3 hole. And what about Konerko vs. Frank at cleanup?

I would think Frank would almost certainly be back in the #3 spot as that is where we saw him for the most part towards the end of the season when he hit his best.

Iwritecode
12-11-2002, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
I would think Frank would almost certainly be back in the #3 spot as that is where we saw him for the most part towards the end of the season when he hit his best.

Exactly. Go with what works. The last time they had a healthy Frank in the #3 spot, they won 95 games.

Dadawg_77
12-11-2002, 01:47 PM
You don't need a fast player at leadoff spot. That is a misconception that Vince Colman brought to the league. I would rather a slow guy with a .400 + OBP then a really fast guy with .350- OBP. Since the leadoff hitter is the first person up to bat, the leadoff hitter will have the most PA in a season. Thus you need to have people who will get on base leading off. A guy who has a obp of .400 will get on base 16 more times every 100 PA then a someone with a .384 OPB. Since the avg of PA a lineup spot can have is about 650. That will translate into 104 more men on base and 104 more times a run can be scored. With this said, I guess Jimenez is the Sox best option but hopefully he improves his OPB. Which he seemed to do at the end of the year but was in the low .300 in April and May while with SD.

Also does anyone recall him pitching to the Royals? ESPN has him listed as pitching 1.1 innings of hitless ball at Kaufman in June. It could be interleague, since I can't remeber when exactly the trade happen. He didn't K anyone but didn't give up a hit or walk.

RichH55
12-11-2002, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
You don't need a fast player at leadoff spot. That is a misconception that Vince Colman brought to the league. I would rather a slow guy with a .400 + OBP then a really fast guy with .350- OBP. Since the leadoff hitter is the first person up to bat, the leadoff hitter will have the most PA in a season. Thus you need to have people who will get on base leading off. A guy who has a obp of .400 will get on base 16 more times every 100 PA then a someone with a .384 OPB. Since the avg of PA a lineup spot can have is about 650. That will translate into 104 more men on base and 104 more times a run can be scored. With this said, I guess Jimenez is the Sox best option but hopefully he improves his OPB. Which he seemed to do at the end of the year but was in the low .300 in April and May while with SD.

Also does anyone recall him pitching to the Royals? ESPN has him listed as pitching 1.1 innings of hitless ball at Kaufman in June. It could be interleague, since I can't remeber when exactly the trade happen. He didn't K anyone but didn't give up a hit or walk.


Agreed...just make sure the leadoff hitter is a good baserunner....doesnt need to be fast, but a guy who knows what hes doing(cant really use stats to prove this).....The only real advantage to having a fast guy is if he is best in the league type at stealing bases. Guys like Rickey Henderson could change a game because he was the pitcher's preoccupation....Of course Rickey also had a tremendous OBP as well, so the point was moot.

wulfy
12-11-2002, 03:34 PM
Ray Durham is probably one of the faster guys in the major leagues .... and a terrible leadoff hitter.

kermittheefrog
12-11-2002, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by wulfy
Ray Durham is probably one of the faster guys in the major leagues .... and a terrible leadoff hitter.

YOU'RE SO WRONG!

Hangar18
12-11-2002, 04:05 PM
man, thats a Good Call (foulke you)
JIMENEZ should be leading off......
and VALENTIN should be batting 2nd.
Jose bats better in the #2 spot....
I like that setup a lot....
the rest of the lineups up for grabs....
put #35 in 6hole......

OneDog
12-11-2002, 06:59 PM
:jerry

"Doesn't matter what you guys think, I'll tinker with the lineup so I will never have the same lineup twice."

Tragg
12-11-2002, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by wulfy
Who is going to be the Sox leadoff man this year? Will it be Jimenez? I guess with a .384 OBP, he's the best option, but he really strikes me more as a #2 hitter - puts the ball in play, moves over the runner type of guy.

If he can maintain a .384 OBP for a season, he's the lead off guy on this club.

wulfy
12-12-2002, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
YOU'RE SO WRONG!

Maybe I missed something while watching Ray play here the last 8 years ..... help me out - how am I wrong?

> Strikes out too much - over 90 Ks every year in the majors.
> Terrible on the base baths.
> Career .352 OBP
> With his speed, never had more than 36 steals in a season.

maurice
12-16-2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by wulfy
Maybe I missed something while watching Ray play here the last 8 years ..... help me out - how am I wrong?


Can you name even ten current players who are better leadoff hitters? Ray's DEFENSE is what drove me nuts.

As for Valentin in the two hole, I think I've beaten that horse to death already.

guillen4life13
12-16-2002, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Can you name even ten current players who are better leadoff hitters? Ray's DEFENSE is what drove me nuts.

As for Valentin in the two hole, I think I've beaten that horse to death already.

Ichiro
K. Lo (yes, right now he's the better leadoff hitter)
Jacque Jones (I think)
Alfonso Soriano
David Eckstein
Luis Castillo
Craig Biggio
Johnny Damon
Barry Larkin
Shannon Stewart (I believe he leads off for the Jays)


There's your ten hitters. Honestly I think Ray was one of the best hitters in the 2 hole. Last year he started off hot but then he injured his hand and I believe that restrained him from performing even better.

RichH55
12-17-2002, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Ichiro
K. Lo (yes, right now he's the better leadoff hitter)
Jacque Jones (I think)
Alfonso Soriano
David Eckstein
Luis Castillo
Craig Biggio
Johnny Damon
Barry Larkin
Shannon Stewart (I believe he leads off for the Jays)


There's your ten hitters. Honestly I think Ray was one of the best hitters in the 2 hole. Last year he started off hot but then he injured his hand and I believe that restrained him from performing even better.

Barry Larkin and K. Lo....did this become 1993 when I wasn't looking?