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SoxxoS
12-09-2002, 01:12 PM
According to Soxnet.net-

Sox 'Interested' in Lieber
SN Report #375 - By Mario Scalise - December 9, 2002 - www.soxnet.net
Just two days after parting ways with the Chicago Cubs, Jon Lieber could find himself staying in Chicago, with the White Sox.

White Sox GM Kenny Williams said they are interested in signing the 32-year old right-hand pitcher, who suffered an elbow injury in 2002 and is rehabbing from constructive surgery.

"I would absolutely have to take a look at that," Sox general manager Ken Williams said. "We would definitely be interested in a Jon Lieber, if the situation was right."

Of course, the Sox signing Lieber would have no effect on 2003 until August at the earliest, which is when Lieber is scheduled to pitch again. So if the Sox were to sign Lieber, they would be eyeing 2004, but Lieber will be 34 just days into the season (April 2), a high risk to take.

Lieber went 6-8 in 21 starts for the 2002 Cubs, with a 3.70 ERA, 87 strikeouts and 12 walks in 141 innings pitched.

Lieber started his career with the Pirates back in 1994. In his five years there he went 28-47 before being dealt to the Cubs. Since, Lieber has been one of the better workhorses in the game, averaging just under 7 innings per start in the last four seasons. Lieber's best year came in 2001 when he won 20-games, losing just 6, and compiled a 3.80 ERA.

Lieber rejected the offer from the Cubs, which was a one-year, $500,000 contract with a club option at $3 million for 2004. Lieber is looking for two-year's guarenteed.


Why not. Lieber is a pitcher, not a thrower. Most of our pitchers that had surgery where throwers, and that is why they struggled. Lieber is one of those guys that can get guys out without sheer velocity.

Lieber had labrum surgery, correct?

DrCrawdad
12-09-2002, 01:45 PM
I too read this article. The Sox have "interested" in Lieber? Big surprise there, if you asked every GM in baseball if they were "interested" in Lieber I'm sure they'd say that they are at least "interested".

I want to read not that the Sox have a cursory interest in Lieber but that they've signed him or at least truly pursued him.

The Sox (and Cubs) were also "interested" in A-Rod.

duke of dorwood
12-09-2002, 01:57 PM
The Duke has thought we should pick him up from the beginning

OEO Magglio
12-09-2002, 09:37 PM
I think Lieber would be a real good pickup, he's definetly different then our pitchers who have had surgery he is a pitcher not a thrower, so I think he will still be a strong pitcher after surgery.

WhiteSoxWinner
12-09-2002, 11:29 PM
You have got to be kidding me!! This is not a pitcher who can help in say 2003. Great, let's keep working for 2004, heck maybe 2005!! All we would hear about all year id Lieber progress and how he will be able to help us in August. "Reinforcements are coming," and every other dumb cliche. Is he is added along with, say Maddux, then fine. Otherwise...

RichH55
12-10-2002, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
The Duke has thought we should pick him up from the beginning

I posted it a bunch of threads back....it just makes sense

Randar68
12-10-2002, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Lieber rejected the offer from the Cubs, which was a one-year, $500,000 contract with a club option at $3 million for 2004. Lieber is looking for two-year's guarenteed.


Why not. Lieber is a pitcher, not a thrower. Most of our pitchers that had surgery where throwers, and that is why they struggled. Lieber is one of those guys that can get guys out without sheer velocity.



1) You do not sign him to a 2-year contract and get him at 100% for all of the last 2 months of 2004. You sign him 2 years with a club option for a third and/or fourth.

2) I am pretty sure he had Tommy John surgery, which is much more serious than labrum surgery.

kermittheefrog
12-10-2002, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by Randar68

2) I am pretty sure he had Tommy John surgery, which is much more serious than labrum surgery.

He did have TJ surgery but labrum surgery is much more damaging to a career. Tommy John surgery is almost perfected. Pitchers generally return 100% back to form and many even throw harder because they now have a healthy tendon. There is a lot less known about shoulder surgery than there is known about elbow surgery.

SoxxoS
12-10-2002, 01:50 AM
<<<2) I am pretty sure he had Tommy John surgery, which is much more serious than labrum surgery.>>>

Not necessarily true, Randar. Dr. James Andrews, the surgeon who fixes most of these pitchers arms, said that elbow surgery is A LOT less serious than shoulder surgery. I read that article in the sporting news, and I remember something like Andrews saying-

"When a pitcher comes in, and I ask him what the problem is, when he says "elbow" I think no problem. The big problem is when he says "shoulder."

jeremyb1
12-10-2002, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
<<<2) I am pretty sure he had Tommy John surgery, which is much more serious than labrum surgery.>>>

Not necessarily true, Randar. Dr. James Andrews, the surgeon who fixes most of these pitchers arms, said that elbow surgery is A LOT less serious than shoulder surgery. I read that article in the sporting news, and I remember something like Andrews saying-

"When a pitcher comes in, and I ask him what the problem is, when he says "elbow" I think no problem. The big problem is when he says "shoulder."

tommy john surgery does generally take longer for recovery though. in the end it may be the same amount of time before the pitcher reverts to full strength but i'm pretty sure you start throwing earlier and can return earlier after shoulder surgery.

Vsahajpal
12-10-2002, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
tommy john surgery does generally take longer for recovery though. in the end it may be the same amount of time before the pitcher reverts to full strength but i'm pretty sure you start throwing earlier and can return earlier after shoulder surgery.

That's exactly the root of the problem, guys can resume throwing as early as 6 weeks after surgery, when it takes several months to fully recover. Additionally, it's more difficult to pinpoint shoulder injuries because the rim of the glenoid socket is soft tissue and x-rays will not reveal any damage, CT scans and resonance has helped in that regard but in many instances pitchers undergo surgery that doesn't fix everything. In recent memory, guys like Sirotka, Ben Christensen, Gil Meche, Ryan Anderson, Steve Smyth have been deemed ready to return, when in fact there were underlying problems even after having shoulder surgery.

bc2k
12-12-2002, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
That's exactly the root of the problem, guys can resume throwing as early as 6 weeks after surgery, when it takes several months to fully recover. Additionally, it's more difficult to pinpoint shoulder injuries because the rim of the glenoid socket is soft tissue and x-rays will not reveal any damage, CT scans and resonance has helped in that regard but in many instances pitchers undergo surgery that doesn't fix everything. In recent memory, guys like Sirotka, Ben Christensen, Gil Meche, Ryan Anderson, Steve Smyth have been deemed ready to return, when in fact there were underlying problems even after having shoulder surgery.

I can't feel sorry for that POS Christensen.

Uh, he is the Cubs pitcher that threw at a batter's head for reading his pitches, correct?

RichH55
12-12-2002, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
I can't feel sorry for that POS Christensen.

Uh, he is the Cubs pitcher that threw at a batter's head for reading his pitches, correct?

Beanball Ben...thats the one

DrCrawdad
12-12-2002, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Beanball Ben...thats the one

Beanball Ben is his name, taking the Nazi defense is his game.

RichH55
12-12-2002, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Beanball Ben is his name, taking the Nazi defense is his game.


Ben:
I thought that kid in the crowd was trying to time my pitches....I didn't know he wanted an autograph, but I have changed. That pitch I fractured his orbital bone with was the offspead stuff....so I got that going for me which is nice