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cornball
12-07-2002, 04:28 PM
The trade of Griffey for Nevin fell through but does that mean he is available.

He is exactly what the Sox need. I know he makes 12MM a year, for the next 4-5 years....but it would give this team credibility, solidify the outfield, lefthanded bat, and would improve the team both at the box office/tv/radio and on the field.

The Sox saved 5MM from Franks salary last year, Durhams 6.3, Claytons4.5, Foulke 4.0, Alomar 2.0, Howry1.0, Lofton 1.0....while only increasing with the Koch 4-5, Korneko 4+ and Mags...i think we could afford it......but it would return with tix and ratings plus credibility to lure others.

I know it would never happen but it is what the doctor ordered along with Colon and Vidro...hahaha or a true #1 starter and middle infielder.

baggio202
12-07-2002, 04:34 PM
phil nevin??...phil had an off year lst year because of inkuries..but when healthy he puts up numbers similiar to konerko...plus with kenny pulling the trigger he would probably send them konerko , garland and malone...

im probably one of the few that wouldnt mind griffey because i feel we are so desperate for a everyday left handed power hitter..but his prce tag is probably too high for us...both in what it would cost to get him and then pay him

NUCatsFan
12-07-2002, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by cornball
The trade of Griffey for Nevin fell through but does that mean he is available.

The thing is, Nevin was the one who vetoed the trade (not saying that Griffey OKed it). How far has Junior Griffey fallen that he was to be traded for Phil Nevin?

RichH55
12-07-2002, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by cornball
The trade of Griffey for Nevin fell through but does that mean he is available.

He is exactly what the Sox need. I know he makes 12MM a year, for the next 4-5 years....but it would give this team credibility, solidify the outfield, lefthanded bat, and would improve the team both at the box office/tv/radio and on the field.

The Sox saved 5MM from Franks salary last year, Durhams 6.3, Claytons4.5, Foulke 4.0, Alomar 2.0, Howry1.0, Lofton 1.0....while only increasing with the Koch 4-5, Korneko 4+ and Mags...i think we could afford it......but it would return with tix and ratings plus credibility to lure others.

I know it would never happen but it is what the doctor ordered along with Colon and Vidro...hahaha or a true #1 starter and middle infielder.


Are we sure that Griffey makes 12 million per? I thought I had read something different somewhere///c'est la vie

Daver
12-07-2002, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Are we sure that Griffey makes 12 million per? I thought I had read something different somewhere///c'est la vie

2000: $12.5M [$5.5M of 2000 salary deferred until 2009+]
2001: $12.5M [$6.5M from subsequent years deferred until 2009-2024]
2002: $12.5M
2003: $12.5M
2004: $12.5M
2005: $12.5M
2006: $12.5M
2007: $12.5M
2008: $12.5M
2009: Team option with $4.0M buyout

jeremyb1
12-07-2002, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by cornball
The trade of Griffey for Nevin fell through but does that mean he is available.

He is exactly what the Sox need. I know he makes 12MM a year, for the next 4-5 years....but it would give this team credibility, solidify the outfield, lefthanded bat, and would improve the team both at the box office/tv/radio and on the field.

The Sox saved 5MM from Franks salary last year, Durhams 6.3, Claytons4.5, Foulke 4.0, Alomar 2.0, Howry1.0, Lofton 1.0....while only increasing with the Koch 4-5, Korneko 4+ and Mags...i think we could afford it......but it would return with tix and ratings plus credibility to lure others.

I know it would never happen but it is what the doctor ordered along with Colon and Vidro...hahaha or a true #1 starter and middle infielder.

the problem with griffey is his health. he hasn't come anywhere near to playing 150 games the last few years and the injuries have hindered his production when he has played.

OfficerKarkovice
12-07-2002, 05:35 PM
I think getting Jr. would be awesome...granted it would never happen unless Cincy picked up a ton of his contract, which they won't as they are trying to cut payroll. Phil Nevin is not THAT good. He had a good year in 2001 but overall is a slightly above average player. I would trade them Carlos Lee for Jr. in a minute.

OneDog
12-07-2002, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
I think getting Jr. would be awesome...granted it would never happen unless Cincy picked up a ton of his contract, which they won't as they are trying to cut payroll. Phil Nevin is not THAT good. He had a good year in 2001 but overall is a slightly above average player. I would trade them Carlos Lee for Jr. in a minute.

Usually a team can only support one slumping former superstar with a fragile psyche at a time. The Sox did not do very well when they had Thomas and Albert Belle.

MarkEdward
12-07-2002, 07:02 PM
A couple of things...

First, he's signed through 2008! Does anyone think he'll be able to put up Griffey-type numbers for five more years?

Second, is everyone forgetting Joe Borchard? He's much too athletic to play left field, and he's cheaper and younger than Griffey. Plus, Borchard will probably put up Griffey numbers in two-three years.

OfficerKarkovice
12-07-2002, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
A couple of things...

First, he's signed through 2008! Does anyone think he'll be able to put up Griffey-type numbers for five more years?

Second, is everyone forgetting Joe Borchard? He's much too athletic to play left field, and he's cheaper and younger than Griffey. Plus, Borchard will probably put up Griffey numbers in two-three years.

First, no I don't think he will put up Griffey type numbers for 8 more years...but do you really think he will play out the entirety of that contract?

Second, nobody is forgetting about Joe. He could move to right, moving Maggs to left with Jr. in center. That would be the perfect setup. Also in a few years if Griffey's defense slowed, Borchard could move to center with Griffey DH'ing or shifting to right.

jortafan
12-07-2002, 07:34 PM
Don't wish too hard for Griffey. you'll give Kenny Williams ideas, and the next thing we know we'll have Junior in exchange for Magglio Ordonez.

TornLabrum
12-07-2002, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by jortafan
Don't wish too hard for Griffey. you'll give Kenny Williams ideas, and the next thing we know we'll have Junior in exchange for Magglio Ordonez.

And the Griffey he'll trade for will be Sr.

baggio202
12-07-2002, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by jortafan
Don't wish too hard for Griffey. you'll give Kenny Williams ideas, and the next thing we know we'll have Junior in exchange for Magglio Ordonez.

remember we always have to sweeten the deal..it would maggs , crede and malone :o:

TornLabrum
12-07-2002, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
remember we always have to sweeten the deal..it would maggs , crede and malone :o:

:KW

"Sometimes you have to overpay to get someone you really want."

Jerry_Manuel
12-07-2002, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
remember we always have to sweeten the deal..it would maggs , crede and malone :o:

And cash.

cornball
12-07-2002, 10:51 PM
The point is with Griff you would have an outfield set for a number of year with Mags and LTP ...and would draw attention from every major new medium in the country from his presence.

WinningUgly!
12-07-2002, 11:13 PM
Griffey's agent, Brian Goldberg, said Friday that Reds ownership might have quashed any deal made by general manager Jim Bowden.

Goldberg said he has had conversations "something above the baseball level" about Griffey's future with the Reds. But he declined to say if that meant he had talked to majority owner Carl Lindner, or to confirm that Lindner's approval is needed for a trade.

Griffey is under contract with the Reds for six more seasons at $12 million per year. His contract with the Reds is tied to endorsement deals with companies owned by Lindner, the Reds' chief executive officer.

I don't see Griffey going anywhere. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1206/1472678.html)

RichH55
12-08-2002, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by cornball
The point is with Griff you would have an outfield set for a number of year with Mags and LTP ...and would draw attention from every major new medium in the country from his presence.

Agreed.....but I dont know if that is the best way to spend our resources.....granted we can spend more..but 12 million a year severely limits what you can do, especially for what is essentially a luxury....we need SP, lets focus there

cornball
12-08-2002, 07:10 AM
I don't see it happening either...but from a public relations standpoint, from a exposure standpoint, to show the mass fans a commitment, ect... This would be a good move.


I think the Reds could live without him now because he hasn't been available to play much the past few years, and i believe he is one player that would increase the season ticket sales.

It is a shame most of the posts have to deal with the Sox salary structure as opposed to winning baseball and exciting baseball.

Jr. has show he is willing to alter his contract to bring in other talent to win, which is right up JR alley too.

Yes we need starters...no doubt, why not do both....forgetting about the money.

Just a thought.

harwar
12-08-2002, 08:35 AM
I think we need a big time starter more than griffey.Also,theres' no way i trade C.Lee at this point.I'm expecting a monster year from this guy who may always have trouble on the base paths,but is getting better in left and is learning and getting better every year at the plate.

jortafan
12-08-2002, 08:37 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/41490p-39167c.html


I just noticed this, figured it might be of interest here. Skip past the Stanton material, and get to the Griffey/Thomas portion.

duke of dorwood
12-08-2002, 09:28 AM
If were gonna chance on a risky veteran, I'd take Pudge Rodrigues over Griffey-at least it fills a need.

cornball
12-08-2002, 11:24 AM
No doubt we need a starter....no question....and IRod would fill a need but......

Griffey would help fill the park, create national interest in the Sox and balance the lineup with a left handed stick.

Don't get me wrong I dont see it happening, however I would love it.

When Grif was healthy he was one of the best all round players to ever play. In fact the Hawk said he believed Griffey when healthy was the best player he ever saw. (Doesn't mean much)

The Sox need a solid starter, but they also need a marque player. Frank although having 2 MVP's doesnt fill that role.

An experienced player wouldnt hurt either considering the 40 man roster has only a few players over 30.....Griffey is 33.

Jerry_Manuel
12-08-2002, 01:09 PM
I think if you can get Griffey back in the American League, he'll perform well again.

jortafan
12-08-2002, 01:27 PM
You realize that by bringing Griffey to the South Side, Mariotti would begin the campaign to demonize Junior for daring to set foot in Sammy's town. He'd probably go so far as to say it was really Sammy's Pepsi, and that Griffey should settle for generic pop from the Shop 'n' Save.

idseer
12-08-2002, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by cornball
No doubt we need a starter....no question....and IRod would fill a need but......

Griffey would help fill the park, create national interest in the Sox and balance the lineup with a left handed stick.

Don't get me wrong I dont see it happening, however I would love it.

When Grif was healthy he was one of the best all round players to ever play. In fact the Hawk said he believed Griffey when healthy was the best player he ever saw. (Doesn't mean much)

The Sox need a solid starter, but they also need a marque player. Frank although having 2 MVP's doesnt fill that role.

An experienced player wouldnt hurt either considering the 40 man roster has only a few players over 30.....Griffey is 33.

i so totally disagree with this.

1st, why would griffey fill the park? i see no reason this would be the case.

2nd, yes griffey was a great players a few years ago when he was healthy .... the point is he hasn't been for YEARS!

3rd, griffey is a marque player and thomas isn't??? or magglio for that matter??? please tell me who are the 'marque' players and how many of them are there?

4th, the sox have plenty of 'experienced' players. adding another old washed up star who costs a billion dollars won't help the sox one iota and will in fact hurt by using up any extra monies available for the sox actual needs.

i cannot believe this thread has remained this serious for this long about this absurd idea!

WinningUgly!
12-08-2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by idseer
i so totally disagree with this.

3rd, griffey is a marque player and thomas isn't??? or magglio for that matter??? please tell me who are the 'marque' players and how many of them are there?



I've always thought of a Marquee Player as a guy who can bring in the casual fans. Here are the ones that immediately come to mind...
Randy Johnson
Sammy Sosa
Barry Bonds
Ken Griffey Jr.
Mike Piazza
Derek Jeter
Roger Clemens
Ichiro Suzuki
Alex Rodriguez
& maybe
Curt Schilling
Nomar Garciaparra

baggio202
12-08-2002, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
I've always thought of a Marquee Player as a guy who can bring in the casual fans. Here are the ones that immediately come to mind...
Randy Johnson
Sammy Sosa
Barry Bonds
Ken Griffey Jr.
Mike Piazza
Derek Jeter
Roger Clemens
Ichiro Suzuki
Alex Rodriguez
& maybe
Curt Schilling
Nomar Garciaparra

that has to do with maggs playing on the southside...if maggs played his whole career in boston and nomar spent his time here...maggs would be the marquee player while the big three at SS would be arod , jeter and tejada...no one would be talking much about nomar...southside burden i guess..

about CF..if we need a good lefty bat to patrol CF for a year or 2 why not go after free agent steve finley...i know he is 38..but he still hit 25 homers last year and in '00 won a gold glove...i think he still has 2 solid years left and at his age wouldnt cost near as much as griffey and we wouldnt have to trade anyone away...would it be a good pick up??

Daver
12-08-2002, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by baggio202


about CF..if we need a good lefty bat to patrol CF for a year or 2 why not go after free agent steve finley...i know he is 38..but he still hit 25 homers last year and in '00 won a gold glove...i think he still has 2 solid years left and at his age wouldnt cost near as much as griffey and we wouldnt have to trade anyone away...would it be a good pick up??

He signed with the Rangers yesterday before the deadline.

baggio202
12-08-2002, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by daver
He signed with the Rangers yesterday before the deadline.

dam.n...thanks for the info

WinningUgly!
12-08-2002, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
that has to do with maggs playing on the southside...if maggs played his whole career in boston and nomar spent his time here...maggs would be the marquee player while the big three at SS would be arod , jeter and tejada...no one would be talking much about nomar...southside burden i guess..



Exactly...marquee player does not always mean best player. I don't think trading for someone (Griffey in this case) just because of their marquee status is a good idea. If he was 100% healthy & if he was the Griffey Jr. of old, he'd be a nice fit in CF, bringing lots-o-lefty power as well. There are just way too many "ifs" to wrap up $12.5 million a year in him for the next 5-6 years. No thanks.

RichH55
12-08-2002, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by daver
He signed with the Rangers yesterday before the deadline.

I think you mean the Diamondbacks Daver

Daver
12-08-2002, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
I think you mean the Diamondbacks Daver

Yeah,see what I get for doing three things at the same time?

cornball
12-08-2002, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by idseer
i so totally disagree with this.

1st, why would griffey fill the park? i see no reason this would be the case.

2nd, yes griffey was a great players a few years ago when he was healthy .... the point is he hasn't been for YEARS!

3rd, griffey is a marque player and thomas isn't??? or magglio for that matter??? please tell me who are the 'marque' players and how many of them are there?

4th, the sox have plenty of 'experienced' players. adding another old washed up star who costs a billion dollars won't help the sox one iota and will in fact hurt by using up any extra monies available for the sox actual needs.

i cannot believe this thread has remained this serious for this long about this absurd idea!

1. Griffey is a national icon...ala Shaq or Jordan....people would pay to see him...look at the season tix that were generated when he signed with the Reds a few years ago.

2. It has been 2 years, he has been hurt (use the same standards for Frank)

3. Thomas is a PR nightmare(if you think people go to the park to watch him play your nuts), Mags is an unknown, underated player (in national circles). Marque players are examples: Nomar, ARod, Sammy, Randy Johnson, Giambi, Jeter, are a few and yes there are not many of them, someone who has hall of fame ability and you would pay to see.
4. I said it wouldn't happen, but it is what they need for credibility....so lighten up....experienced players?...you had 13 players making within 100K of the minimum salary at the beginning of last season and they are younger now, 3 players on the 40 man roster over 30 years old (Frank, Valentine and Osuna) ...where is the experience? 1B, RF, SS, LF, DH...it certainly is nowhere else....Billions of dollars huh......wake up!!!... it is the White Sox your taking about...and a 45MM payroll budget.... they havent had a hall of famer in many years (understanding Fisk went in as a Bosox)

NewyorkSoxFan
12-08-2002, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by idseer
i so totally disagree with this.

1st, why would griffey fill the park? i see no reason this would be the case.

2nd, yes griffey was a great players a few years ago when he was healthy .... the point is he hasn't been for YEARS!

3rd, griffey is a marque player and thomas isn't??? or magglio for that matter??? please tell me who are the 'marque' players and how many of them are there?

4th, the sox have plenty of 'experienced' players. adding another old washed up star who costs a billion dollars won't help the sox one iota and will in fact hurt by using up any extra monies available for the sox actual needs.

i cannot believe this thread has remained this serious for this long about this absurd idea!


First of all let me say I don't think that he is the answer. However how can you say that he would not fill the park? and Frank and Magglio are not in the same league when it comes to who draws marquee interest. We are not talking about his stats over the last two years because of his injury but creates sheer excitement with every at bat.

If you are willing to take a chance on Frank but not Jr. you are out of your mind. If you think he is washed up you are crazy. I would trade those two everyday of the week and twice on Sunday

hose
12-08-2002, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
First of all let me say I don't think that he is the answer. However how can you say that he would not fill the park? and Frank and Magglio are not in the same league when it comes to who draws marquee interest. We are not talking about his stats over the last two years because of his injury but creates sheer excitement with every at bat.

If you are willing to take a chance on Frank but not Jr. you are out of your mind. If you think he is washed up you are crazy. I would trade those two everyday of the week and twice on Sunday


12 million on Junior? I hate to bring up money, but this is the White Sox we are talking about.

For that type of money the Sox could have signed Thome and traded Konerko in a package deal for a starter.

guillen4life13
12-08-2002, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
First of all let me say I don't think that he is the answer. However how can you say that he would not fill the park? and Frank and Magglio are not in the same league when it comes to who draws marquee interest. We are not talking about his stats over the last two years because of his injury but creates sheer excitement with every at bat.

If you are willing to take a chance on Frank but not Jr. you are out of your mind. If you think he is washed up you are crazy. I would trade those two everyday of the week and twice on Sunday

Griffey is a complete player. He can hit for average, power, and is defensively stellar and can steal you a base. I'd love to have Junior on the White Sox, because being back in the A.L. could help him out somewhat, and a change of atmosphere. He wouldn't have to be the main guy anymore... the guy to be relied on. He could share the load with Maggs, Thomas, Konerko, and even Lee.

Of course, he has a 12 million dollar salary, and that's where reality checks in...

idseer
12-08-2002, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by cornball
1. Griffey is a national icon...ala Shaq or Jordan....people would pay to see him...look at the season tix that were generated when he signed with the Reds a few years ago.

2. It has been 2 years, he has been hurt (use the same standards for Frank)

3. Thomas is a PR nightmare(if you think people go to the park to watch him play your nuts), Mags is an unknown, underated player (in national circles). Marque players are examples: Nomar, ARod, Sammy, Randy Johnson, Giambi, Jeter, are a few and yes there are not many of them, someone who has hall of fame ability and you would pay to see.
4. I said it wouldn't happen, but it is what they need for credibility....so lighten up....experienced players?...you had 13 players making within 100K of the minimum salary at the beginning of last season and they are younger now, 3 players on the 40 man roster over 30 years old (Frank, Valentine and Osuna) ...where is the experience? 1B, RF, SS, LF, DH...it certainly is nowhere else....Billions of dollars huh......wake up!!!... it is the White Sox your taking about...and a 45MM payroll budget.... they havent had a hall of famer in many years (understanding Fisk went in as a Bosox)

griffey is no national icon, and hasn't been for years. tickets might increase slightly if he were on the team, but not much.

and the only reason you don't think thomas is a marque player is because he's on the sox and you're a sox fan. i guarantee you to fans of other teams thomas is every bit as marque as is griffey. and their tickets would increase if thomas was on any of their teams. it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest nomar is more a marque player than thomas.

as for experience, thomas, magglio, valentin, konerko lee... these guys are veterans. i never said they were the most experienced team, but that's more than half the starters. one more wouldn't change that much.



Billions of dollars huh......wake up!!!... it is the White Sox your taking about...and a 45MM payroll budget

don't look now ... but that was MY point.

cornball
12-09-2002, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by idseer
griffey is no national icon, and hasn't been for years. tickets might increase slightly if he were on the team, but not much.

and the only reason you don't think thomas is a marque player is because he's on the sox and you're a sox fan. i guarantee you to fans of other teams thomas is every bit as marque as is griffey. and their tickets would increase if thomas was on any of their teams. it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest nomar is more a marque player than thomas.

as for experience, thomas, magglio, valentin, konerko lee... these guys are veterans. i never said they were the most experienced team, but that's more than half the starters. one more wouldn't change that much.



don't look now ... but that was MY point.

if you think frank is a big a marque player as Nomar....your right we differ in a huge way......and i am talking on the field not the fiasco of him hiring non-union workers to build his home during the strike or the complaining of batting practice time...or any of that....we are talking of a shortstop vs. a DH If Frank was a top margue player right now he would have had been offered a deal as a FA.

We agree to disagree...By the way the team is made up of 25 guys the team as a whole is inexperienced...bench, CF, 2nd, 3rd,C ...and the SS is gone after this year.....bench, starters...the team as a whole is not. It is potential and buget minded in one of the largest markets in the country with a public financed stadium.

oldcomiskey
12-09-2002, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by harwar
I think we need a big time starter more than griffey.Also,theres' no way i trade C.Lee at this point.I'm expecting a monster year from this guy who may always have trouble on the base paths,but is getting better in left and is learning and getting better every year at the plate.

and just exactly who are you gonna trade for a big time starter===Lee has improved to adequate with the glove moving him just above Barry Bonds defensively,but still-----if you think JR is going to go after a free agent big name pitcher--which need I remind you there is only one left---youre on some serious drugs

hose
12-09-2002, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by DVG
Siiiiiiiggggghhhhhhhh. You just had to bring up money, didn't you?


Sox pay full price?? NEVER...lol

After Christmas sale is just around the corner.....scheech!!!

WinningUgly!
12-09-2002, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
Lee has improved to adequate with the glove moving him just above Barry Bonds defensively

Lee might be just above Bobby Bonds, but I wouldn't say he's close to Barry's level...even at 39!

OfficerKarkovice
12-09-2002, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Lee might be just above Bobby Bonds, but I wouldn't say he's close to Barry's level...even at 39!

Exactly...Carlos isn't within a baseballs throw (especially if it's one of Lee's throws) of Bonds defensively.

34 Inch Stick
12-10-2002, 04:55 PM
I have a better idea. Take that 12 million and offer it to Maddux. He is undoubtably a marque player in an area of need. He is supposed to be great with younger pitchers as well.

Or we can just get Steve Trachsell....OOOOOOOO NOOOOOOOO!

OfficerKarkovice
12-10-2002, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
I have a better idea. Take that 12 million and offer it to Maddux. He is undoubtably a marque player in an area of need. He is supposed to be great with younger pitchers as well.

Or we can just get Steve Trachsell....OOOOOOOO NOOOOOOOO!

Well it's not like we would just be adding 12 million to the payroll. You have to subtract the salary of the player(s) that you would trade to get Jr.

And also...Trachsell resigned with the Mets...I think a pretty good move for them.