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View Full Version : Cubs trade for Karros and Grudzielanek


HawkDJ
12-03-2002, 04:28 PM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1203/1470692.html

Karros and Grud. for Todd Hundley.

FanOf14
12-03-2002, 04:33 PM
I thought Karros was "God" to the Dodgers...why did they give him up so easily?

34rancher
12-03-2002, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by FanOf14
I thought Karros was "God" to the Dodgers...why did they give him up so easily?

How is it that the cubs can give away their cancers for profits, while we get continuously screwed?
:kermit

I mean last year they give away the homophobic Julian Tavarez for Clement and Alfonseca, and now they get gold for a big pile of cow dung? I just hope that Prior has an awful year, and Joe Mauer is GOD.

MarkEdward
12-03-2002, 04:41 PM
Wow, another bad trade. Why do the Cubs need Grudzielanek and Karros?

Williams is awful, but right now Jim Hendry isn't looking so hot.

hold2dibber
12-03-2002, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by 34rancher
I mean last year they give away the homophobic Julian Tavarez for Clement and Alfonseca, and now they get gold for a big pile of cow dung?

I'd hardly call Karros and Grudzwhatchamacallit gold; this was a trade of overpriced cow dung for overpriced cow dung. Although I do think that the cow dung the Cubs got is a little less pungent than that received by the Dodgers.

Zednem700
12-03-2002, 05:02 PM
You know I can always rely on the cubs to brighten my day. Just when I'm all depressed over what looksl like another bad trade by KW, the cubs go and pick up Karros and Grudzielanek. They traded one horrible player for two slightly less horrible ones. I can only hope that Dusty hates youn players as much as I think he does (why else would you have shawon on the playoff roster) and plays karros over choi.

Vsahajpal
12-03-2002, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Zednem700
You know I can always rely on the cubs to brighten my day. Just when I'm all depressed over what looksl like another bad trade by KW, the cubs go and pick up Karros and Grudzielanek. They traded one horrible player for two slightly less horrible ones. I can only hope that Dusty hates youn players as much as I think he does (why else would you have shawon on the playoff roster) and plays karros over choi.


The important thing to note is that the Cubs take the salary hit for '03, but will not be on the books for '04 when they can decline team options on Grudz and Karros. Meanwhile, Hundley is owed $15.5 over '03 & '04. Next year's free agent class is miles ahead of this one.

Zednem700
12-03-2002, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
The important thing to note is that the Cubs take the salary hit for '03, but will not be on the books for '04 when they can decline team options on Grudz and Karros. Meanwhile, Hundley is owed $15.5 over '03 & '04. Next year's free agent class is miles ahead of this one.

True, and ifthe cubs act like they normally do they, will need that extra money to give JT snow a long term extension after they trade choi to get him.

Hullett_Fan
12-03-2002, 05:34 PM
The important thing to note is that the Cubs take the salary hit for '03, but will not be on the books for '04 when they can decline team options on Grudz and Karros. Meanwhile, Hundley is owed $15.5 over '03 & '04. Next year's free agent class is miles ahead of this one.


Great call Vsahajpal, for that point...this was a GREAT trade (I'm in the neither good nor bad camp on the Foulke trade...we need starters!).

Hundley is finished , but I think Karros has something left and at least he's not a cancer in the clubhouse. They'll drop him and Gruds after this season.

Vsahajpal
12-03-2002, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Zednem700
True, and ifthe cubs act like they normally do they, will need that extra money to give JT snow a long term extension after they trade choi to get him.

huh?

Vsahajpal
12-03-2002, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by Hullett_Fan
Great call Vsahajpal, for that point...this was a GREAT trade (I'm in the neither good nor bad camp on the Foulke trade...we need starters!).

Hundley is finished , but I think Karros has something left and at least he's not a cancer in the clubhouse. They'll drop him and Gruds after this season.


It isn't a great trade, because Baker's affinity for playing veterans may bite the Cubs in the ass. I just want Hendry to make it clear that Hill and Choi will be the everday starters on the right side of the infield.

HawkDJ
12-03-2002, 05:37 PM
Wouldn't you rather have Hundley blocking the progress of nobody then Karros and Grud. blocking the progress of Choi and HIll?

jeremyb1
12-03-2002, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
It isn't a great trade, because Baker's affinity for playing veterans may bite the Cubs in the ass. I just want Hendry to make it clear that Hill and Choi will be the everday starters on the right side of the infield.

haha. i hope this blocks choi and hill. that would be hilarious. why not just cut hundley? then you'd be wasting zero roster spots on washed up veterans and you'd do it for the same amount of money.

Zednem700
12-03-2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
huh?

sorry my keyboard sucks. Basically I was just joking that the money the cubs will save after next season will probably go to worthless veteran. Dusty seems to love his JT Snow, so I thought it would be very cubs like to trade their best prospect, Choi, for a light hitting veteran first basemen. After lighting the wrigley crowd on fire with his "great for a first baseman" D, the cubs would sign him to a long term contract using that freed up Todd Hundley money.

Hullett_Fan
12-03-2002, 05:46 PM
It isn't a great trade, because Baker's affinity for playing veterans may bite the Cubs in the ass. I just want Hendry to make it clear that Hill and Choi will be the everday starters on the right side of the infield.

why not just cut hundley? then you'd be wasting zero roster spots on washed up veterans and you'd do it for the same amount of money.

Sorry, Vsahajpal didn't mean to imply that you thought this was a great trade. IMO it is...and I'll assume that Karros will be brought off the bench and Grudz will be deep on the bench or released.

I don't think Karros is washed up just yet but we'll see.

Anyway, I'm getting a headache thinking about the Cubs...they'll find a way to lose. But have to give him kudos for getting rid of that drunk.

OfficerKarkovice
12-03-2002, 05:57 PM
The Score 670 is reporting that the Cubs are trying to trade Bobby Hill, Carlos Zambrano, and Kyle Farnsworth to the Expos for Javier Vazquez, Jose Vidro, and Fernando Tatis.

Then in turn...trading Eric Karros and Fernando Tatis to the Rockies for Denny Neagle and Jose Jimenez.

I don't really know what to think about this...it makes my head hurt.

nixsox
12-03-2002, 06:21 PM
Is this a Scrub or Sox fan forum?

DrCrawdad
12-03-2002, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by nixsox
Is this a Scrub or Sox fan forum?

Yes.

DrCrawdad
12-03-2002, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
The important thing to note is that the Cubs take the salary hit for '03, but will not be on the books for '04 when they can decline team options on Grudz and Karros. Meanwhile, Hundley is owed $15.5 over '03 & '04. Next year's free agent class is miles ahead of this one.

VIC, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the Foulke-Koch deal. (Please forgive me if you've already commented on it in WSI I just didn't see it.)

-DrCrawdad

longshot7
12-03-2002, 07:44 PM
as a Dodger fan, I can assure you - the Cubs got the better of the deal. Karros is not done - just injured the last two years, and a great clubhouse guy. Grud is so-so - good bat no d - but why impede Hill's progress.

And why would colorado acquire Karros? He can't play anything but first, and they have Helton.

Ol Aches & Pains
12-03-2002, 07:51 PM
Catchers are obviously a valuable commodity in short supply. Why else would Oakland (or anybody) want Mark Johnson, and why in God's name would the Dodgers want Todd Hundley back? Karros' best days are behind him, but he's still an upgrade from the Crime Dog (he was a dog, it was a crime).

Lip Man 1
12-03-2002, 08:47 PM
What I'm wondering is the "timing", the "coincidence" of the announcement of this deal.

Isn't it odd on the one day the Sox actually make some news (regardless of whether it's good or bad) the Cubs pull off ANOTHER blockbuster and steal the headlines?

I got ripped on by suggesting that through the years it hasn't been total chance, the Cubs make moves to steal the Sox thunder, be it signing former Sox players (or announcers).

I suggested it was part of a great PR strategy on their part to consistently make the Sox look bad.

Still think it's "coincidence"?

Lip

PaleHoseGeorge
12-03-2002, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
...I suggested it was part of a great PR strategy on their part to consistently make the Sox look bad.

Still think it's "coincidence"?


I dunno. If somebody offered me anything more valuable than a bucket of goo for Todd Hundley, I'd grab the deal before he changed his mind.

:smile:

Jerry_Manuel
12-03-2002, 08:57 PM
Our good pal Dan Evans showing off more of his geniusness.

Vsahajpal
12-03-2002, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
as a Dodger fan, I can assure you - the Cubs got the better of the deal. Karros is not done - just injured the last two years, and a great clubhouse guy. Grud is so-so - good bat no d - but why impede Hill's progress.

And why would colorado acquire Karros? He can't play anything but first, and they have Helton.

To be honest, there is no better end to this deal. Karros is awful, and if he isn't dealt soon, will be an $8 MM bench player. He does well against left handed pitching, which is a bonus. I liken him to an overpriced Greg Colbrunn. He will spell Choi on occasion, but that's it.

Grudzielanek will not impede Hill's progress. I'm not sure why he was included. He'll replace Chris Stynes as backup utility guy with a bad attitude and crappy glove.

There's some more to the deal; the Dodgers will send cash to offset the difference in salary (previously I said Hundley is owed $15. 5 MM, it is actually $12.5 MM). The Cubs will offer a PTBNL.

Basically, it gives the Dodgers cap relief to make a move this offseason, and clears the Cubs of $5.5-6 MM next year.

Jerry_Manuel
12-03-2002, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
Basically, it gives the Dodgers cap relief to make a move this offseason, and clears the Cubs of $5.5-6 MM next year.

LA trades a first baseman, opening up "cap" room to sign Thomas? :?:

Vsahajpal
12-03-2002, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
VIC, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the Foulke-Koch deal. (Please forgive me if you've already commented on it in WSI I just didn't see it.)

-DrCrawdad


I don't understand the trade as it doesn't fill a need. I think Foulke is the better reliever, and with Koch being arb-eligible and the Sox sending cash, the salaries are a wash. Mark Johnson is no loss no matter what Paul DePodesta says, and Valentine is little more than a fringy bullpen guy.

From what I've heard, the Sox will acquire 22 y/o LHP Neal Cotts. He had a nice season at Modesto (might've been Visalia) at the California League...went to Illinois State University. High 80's fastball, changeup and curve, relies on movement.

I don't know about the other player, for the Sox sake, hopefully it is Mike Wood or Jason Arnold (cause it ain't gonna be Harden).

Vsahajpal
12-03-2002, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
LA trades a first baseman, opening up "cap" room to sign Thomas? :?:

Well, soft cap I guess.

They are going after Jeff Kent

bc2k
12-03-2002, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
The Score 670 is reporting that the Cubs are trying to trade Bobby Hill, Carlos Zambrano, and Kyle Farnsworth to the Expos for Javier Vazquez, Jose Vidro, and Fernando Tatis.

Then in turn...trading Eric Karros and Fernando Tatis to the Rockies for Denny Neagle and Jose Jimenez.

I don't really know what to think about this...it makes my head hurt.

Good Lord. That would give the Cubs a starting five of:

Wood
Vasquez
Neagle
Clement (big chin who unsuccessfully covers it with facial hair)
Prior (Fat calves)

That could be the best starting five in the game today. And they still have Sirotka as a possibility. Unbelievable. But the Cubs will still suck.

DrCrawdad
12-03-2002, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
I don't understand the trade as it doesn't fill a need. I think Foulke is the better reliever, and with Koch being arb-eligible and the Sox sending cash, the salaries are a wash. Mark Johnson is no loss no matter what Paul DePodesta says, and Valentine is little more than a fringy bullpen guy.

From what I've heard, the Sox will acquire 22 y/o LHP Neal Cotts. He had a nice season at Modesto (might've been Visalia) at the California League...went to Illinois State University. High 80's fastball, changeup and curve, relies on movement.

I don't know about the other player, for the Sox sake, hopefully it is Mike Wood or Jason Arnold (cause it ain't gonna be Harden).

Thanks for your comments. I know that quite a few people are crying about the loss of Valentine but from what I've read before (maybe from you) Valentine wasn't a super prospect.

Take care,
DrCrawdad.

hose
12-03-2002, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
LA trades a first baseman, opening up "cap" room to sign Thomas? :?:


Can't wait for Dec.7th to come and go.

RichH55
12-03-2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by hose
Can't wait for Dec.7th to come and go.


Agreed....the sooner this is behind us, the quicker we can move on

Tragg
12-03-2002, 11:19 PM
I suppose on paper the cubs got more than they gave up - 2 mediocre players for 1. But they've been making deals like this for years - mediocre players from good teams - and as soon as the latest mediocrity comes to town they hype him up so that when he gets injured, they can say that their all star caliber player's injury caused the team to win 72 games.
Jeff Blauser, Bill Mueller, Girardi, Eric Young, Henry Rodriguez, and the list goes on and on.