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View Full Version : Quote from an A's board...


Kilroy
12-03-2002, 02:26 PM
Hey, somebody has to replace KC. The Royals seem to have become afraid to deal with the A's. Hopefully the White Sox can fill KC's past roll as Beane's patsies in the future...

However, just like here, some over there hate it, some like it...

jeremyb1
12-03-2002, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Quote:
Hey, somebody has to replace KC. The Royals seem to have become afraid to deal with the A's. Hopefully the White Sox can fill KC's past roll as Beane's patsies in the future...

now that's stretching things. its not like we traded jermaine dye for neifi perez.

AnthonyGiacalone
12-03-2002, 03:15 PM
It's not like we trade Ray Durham and cash for Jon Adkins. . . . oh, wait.

jeremyb1
12-03-2002, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by AnthonyGiacalone
It's not like we trade Ray Durham and cash for Jon Adkins. . . . oh, wait.

i'm not a fan of ken williams in general but i'll defend that move to some extent. the draft picks were eliminated in the new labor agreement. if we'd have kept ray there would've been a very good chance we'd have gotten nothing in return. absolutely nothing.

on top of that there apparently wasn't too much interest outside of oakand and beane is an outstanding gm. he had all the leverage and he knew it. it was incredible that the draft picks were eliminated and then restored after they'd been agreed upon beause there was some stupid misunderstanding.

while i don't think that highly of kw he had to make a deal and i doubt that he turned down a top prospect to go for adkins. he may have been able to get someone slightly better but we weren't about to get a top prospect. with the status of the compensation picks williams had no choice but to deal ray. he couldn't afford to hinder the developement of jiminez and harris while paying a few million dollars to do so.

ode to veeck
12-03-2002, 03:42 PM
It's not like we trade Ray Durham and cash for Jon Adkins. . . . oh, wait.

Good way to start out at WSI. Welcome to the board!

Tavarin
12-03-2002, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
the draft picks were eliminated in the new labor agreement.

Wrong, read PHGs post

kermittheefrog
12-03-2002, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i'm not a fan of ken williams in general but i'll defend that move to some extent. the draft picks were eliminated in the new labor agreement. if we'd have kept ray there would've been a very good chance we'd have gotten nothing in return. absolutely nothing.



Draft picks as compensation were not eliminated, that was talked about but it was later decided to leave the draft the way it is.

jeremyb1
12-03-2002, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Tavarin
Wrong, read PHGs post

wrong. try reading my post again. they were eliminated in the intitial agreement and then reinstated due to a disagreement between the players and owners after they'd previously agreed to eliminate them.

hold2dibber
12-03-2002, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Tavarin
Wrong, read PHGs post

Uh, actually, you should read Jeremy's post in its entirety - he inddicates (accurately, I believe) that the two sides agreed to eliminate draft pick compensation when they negotiated the CBA, but then, afterwards, when they sat down to actually draft the agreement, they couldn't agree on the details and therefore ended up not eliminating the compensation.

kermittheefrog
12-03-2002, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
wrong. try reading my post again. they were eliminated in the intitial agreement and then reinstated due to a disagreement between the players and owners after they'd previously agreed to eliminate them.

WRONG. You cannot say they made the deal knowing the picks were eliminated because the new CBA wasn't agreed to until AFTER the trade. The trade was made on the assumption the picks would be eliminated. A STUPID assumption to make considering there was no deal signed.

hold2dibber
12-03-2002, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
wrong. try reading my post again. they were eliminated in the intitial agreement and then reinstated due to a disagreement between the players and owners after they'd previously agreed to eliminate them.

I think you're right, but you're not quite telling the whole story. When KW made the Durham deal, the parties were still negotiating the initial CBA - no agreement had been reached and a strike was still looming. Although KW did not know whether or not draft pick compensation would remain part of the CBA, it was certainly not a done deal at that point in time. KW rolled the dice that draft pick compensation would be eliminated, but he was wrong and the trade was, therefore, IMHO, a big mistake (unless, of course, Jon Adkins turns into a useful major league pitcher).

PaleHoseGeorge
12-03-2002, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
WRONG. You cannot say they made the deal knowing the picks were eliminated because the new CBA wasn't agreed to until AFTER the trade. The trade was made on the assumption the picks would be eliminated. A STUPID assumption to make considering there was no deal signed.

Well said, Kermit. What's the name of that school you go to? I'm betting it's harder to get into yours than a lot of others around the Midwest.

:gulp:

kermittheefrog
12-03-2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Well said, Kermit. What's the name of that school you go to? I'm betting it's harder to get into yours than a lot of others around the Midwest.

:gulp:

Lawrence, it's on par with midwest schools like Carleton, Grinnell and McCallister, just really small.

jeremyb1
12-03-2002, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Lawrence, it's on par with midwest schools like Carleton, Grinnell and McCallister, just really small.

no kidding? i go to macalester.

kermittheefrog
12-03-2002, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
no kidding? i go to macalester.

No kidding. You've heard of Lawrence? And do you know a freshman named David McKenna?

jeremyb1
12-03-2002, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
WRONG. You cannot say they made the deal knowing the picks were eliminated because the new CBA wasn't agreed to until AFTER the trade. The trade was made on the assumption the picks would be eliminated. A STUPID assumption to make considering there was no deal signed.

i never said they knew for a fact the picks were eliminated. however, at the time the deal was made nearly every baseball insider such as gammons were reporting it was close to a sure thing that compensation picks would be eliminated in the new draft. it turned out they were right and this was only changed after the fact. as i said in another thread and as i said at the time of the deal, it might've made sense for kw to keep durham on the slight chance compensation picks would remain or at least claim he was thinking about doing so however that would've involved a risk. people would've said "how did he let ray durham get away for nothing?!?!" and harris and jiminez would've lost critical abs last season.