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JasonC23
12-03-2002, 02:14 PM
...an address (regular mail or e-mail) to which I can send a letter to the Sox' intrepid GM and owner? I'd like to express my thoughts about this latest trade directly to the head men, if possible.

Thanks!!

cheeses_h_rice
12-03-2002, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by JasonC23
...an address (regular mail or e-mail) to which I can send a letter to the Sox' intrepid GM and owner? I'd like to express my thoughts about this latest trade directly to the head men, if possible.

Thanks!!

dumbo@stupidhead.com

You're welcome!

THE_HOOTER
12-03-2002, 02:17 PM
I wish I did, but I emailed my season ticket rep who has been trying to get me to re-up on a partial game plan.

after this trade, kiss my rear-end. I have had it with this embarrassment.

There are always things under the table we might know about, but any way you look at it, this trade is unbelievably one-sided.

After the ritchie trade, you would think Williams would be a little more hesitant.

I really feel he makes these deals based on his hopes and dreams.

What a jerk-

OfficerKarkovice
12-03-2002, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
I wish I did, but I emailed my season ticket rep who has been trying to get me to re-up on a partial game plan.

after this trade, kiss my rear-end. I have had it with this embarrassment.

There are always things under the table we might know about, but any way you look at it, this trade is unbelievably one-sided.

After the ritchie trade, you would think Williams would be a little more hesitant.

I really feel he makes these deals based on his hopes and dreams.

What a jerk-

I have no problem with the trade.

JasonC23
12-03-2002, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
dumbo@stupidhead.com

You're welcome!

Thanks, cheeses. :cool:

OfficerKark, why do you not have a problem with the trade? Not trying to flame or anything, just curious to hear the other side of this one.

OfficerKarkovice
12-03-2002, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by JasonC23
Thanks, cheeses. :cool:

OfficerKark, why do you not have a problem with the trade? Not trying to flame or anything, just curious to hear the other side of this one.

I like Foulke and think he is a good closer, but if I were to build a team I want a hard-throwing, intimidating closer out of the Troy Percival, Robb Nen, Billy Koch mold. IMO losing Mark Johnson only helps us although I would rather it been Josh Paul but this free's up space for Olivo. Valentine is a promising prospect but nothing more as of yet...there are tons of minor league studs that never pan out. We have a surplus of minor league relievers, along with the fact that we are receiving two other players from the A's that we don't yet have any information on.

Overall I think Koch has a better arm and still has room to improve...along with his attitude and possibly bringing some new life to this team I have no problem with this trade.

duke of dorwood
12-03-2002, 02:38 PM
Koch is arm trouble waiting to happen. Foulke's easy motion, while not intimidating, will be more durable. They were clearly dumping Koch, and we overpaid for a player they just didnt want for some reason.

THE_HOOTER
12-03-2002, 02:55 PM
statisically Foulke is better than Koch. And why do we take our best pitcher and trade him for a closer who has room to improve??

How do we know he has room to improve?

That is my biggest problem with this trade. You do not trade one of your best players for someone of lesser value in hopes that will improve.

Why take the gamble--because he has a cool beard??????????/ :?:

The stats don't lie--we waaaaaaaaaay overpaid for Koch, and lost a huge presence in the bullpen and locker room.

WinningUgly!
12-03-2002, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Koch is arm trouble waiting to happen. Foulke's easy motion, while not intimidating, will be more durable. They were clearly dumping Koch, and we overpaid for a player they just didnt want for some reason.

I liked Foulke, but the guy drove me nuts, especially when he came in for a non-save situation. Koch, with his 11 wins last season, proved he can come in to the game in any situation & sit hitters down. Probably what the Sox needed.

Now that he's out of Chicago, you'll never hear another word about Keith Foulke's desire to become a starter.

JasonC23
12-03-2002, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
I liked Foulke, but the guy drove me nuts, especially when he came in for a non-save situation. Koch, with his 11 wins last season, proved he can come in to the game in any situation & sit hitters down. Probably what the Sox needed.

I'd be very curious to find out how many of those 11 victories came because Koch blew the save before the A's rallied for the win... :?:

Jjav829
12-03-2002, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
statisically Foulke is better than Koch. And why do we take our best pitcher and trade him for a closer who has room to improve??

How do we know he has room to improve?

That is my biggest problem with this trade. You do not trade one of your best players for someone of lesser value in hopes that will improve.

Why take the gamble--because he has a cool beard??????????/ :?:

The stats don't lie--we waaaaaaaaaay overpaid for Koch, and lost a huge presence in the bullpen and locker room.

All of a sudden Foulke is one of the Sox best players? Am I the only one that remembers him being crucified early in the season for blowing big saves? If Im choosing a closer for my team, I take Koch before Foulke.

BTW...when did we trade Mark Buehrle? We traded "our best pitcher"? Huh?

Dadawg_77
12-03-2002, 04:01 PM
koch_trade@yahoo.com

That was listed at WhiteSox.com

Here is what I sent to that address,


The old saying, no news is good news, never rang more truer tone for Sox Fans then the day Kenny Williams became the GM. This deal is horrible. I first heard serious rumors about this trade last week, and thought and prayed that's all it was, just rumors. Then to come back from lunch today and develop indigestion after hearing just the words "the Sox made a big trade". Keith Foulke is and probably will continue to be a better pitcher then Billy Koch, but the management of the Sox sees fit to throw in a promising young arm, a okay backup catcher and cash in order to get this inferior pitcher. Dan Evans where are thou in our time of need as Sox fans, oh that's right he is winning awards in LA. Lets take a look at stats:
ERA lgERA ERA+ Whip OPS Allowed
Keith Foulke
Career 3.36 4.68 139 na .625
2002 2.90 4.60 159 1.00 .590
Billy Koch
Career 3.48 4.81 138 na .675
2002 3.27 4.64 139 1.27 .617

Also consider the fact that Foulke was horrible when he played with San Fran before we acquired him in the infamous White Flag trade with a ERA over 8.0. If you factor that out since he trying to become a starter then, Keith becomes a much better pitcher then Koch.

This trade does not even make sense if you factor in money aspect of it. Koch is up for arbitration this year and two afterwards, and Keith can become a unrestricted free agent at the end of 2003 season. While in past years you could say it would be cheaper to have arbitration player then a unrestricted FA, that rule may of changed with the new labor agreement. The baseball free agency market is depress currently where the Sox may have been able to keep Foulke for cheaper then what three years of arbitration will cost for Koch.

As a part time season ticket holder this trade as long with the continuing retention of Kenny Williams is causing me to serious consider cancelling my tickets for the up and coming year. What amazes me is that the management of Sox complains that fans don't come out to the park and Chicago is a Cubs town while failing to realize that is the case because of their gross mismanagement of team. The Sox were a major young hungry force in just 2000, and under the current managemnet they became a team of uninspired overpaid veterans. The team will exprince an influx in attendance and no shows this year, but what of next year when the Sox do not host the All Star Game. Every single major pickup by Kenny Williams has been a mistake, there is nothing that says this one won't be. I wish the best for Keith, Billy, Mark and Joe in their new home and for a pink slip for Kenny Williams.


Note: All stats are from www.baseball-reference.com.
lgERA - Earned Run Average for a league average pitcher in that ballpark or combination of ballparks.
ERA+ - the ratio of the league's ERA to that of the pitcher (adjusted for ballparks). > 100 is above average and < 100 is below average. lgERA / ERA

SI1020
12-03-2002, 04:18 PM
Dawg- We may not agree much on politics but I say you're 100% right about the state of the Sox.