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Daver
11-30-2002, 04:23 PM
For 2003 your nominees are:

The complete ballot (x-first time eligible): Bert Blyleven, x-Brett Butler, Gary Carter, x-Vince Coleman, Dave Concepcion, x-Darren Daulton, x-Mark Davis, Andre Dawson, x-Sid Fernandez, Steve Garvey, Rich Gossage, Keith Hernandez, x-Rick Honeycutt, x-Danny Jackson, Tommy John, Jim Kaat, x-Darryl Kile, Don Mattingly, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, x-Eddie Murray, Dave Parker, x-Tony Pena, Jim Rice, x-Ryne Sandberg, x-Lee Smith, Bruce Sutter, x-Danny Tartabull, x-Mickey Tettleton, Alan Trammell, x-Fernando Valenzuela, x-Mitch Williams, x-Todd Worrell.


Full story here. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1130/1469094.html)

WinningUgly!
11-30-2002, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by daver
For 2003 your nominees are:

The complete ballot (x-first time eligible): Bert Blyleven, x-Brett Butler, Gary Carter, x-Vince Coleman, Dave Concepcion, x-Darren Daulton, x-Mark Davis, Andre Dawson, x-Sid Fernandez, Steve Garvey, Rich Gossage, Keith Hernandez, x-Rick Honeycutt, x-Danny Jackson, Tommy John, Jim Kaat, x-Darryl Kile, Don Mattingly , Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, x-Eddie Murray, Dave Parker, x-Tony Pena, Jim Rice, x-Ryne Sandberg, x-Lee Smith, Bruce Sutter, x-Danny Tartabull, x-Mickey Tettleton, Alan Trammell, x-Fernando Valenzuela, x-Mitch Williams, x-Todd Worrell.



Full story here. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1130/1469094.html)

Donnie Baseball has to be the most over-rated player in the history of the game! Hopefully he's never elected.

Soxheads
11-30-2002, 06:16 PM
Remember the days of Danny Tartabull? :smile:

WinningUgly!
11-30-2002, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Soxheads
Remember the days of Danny Tartabull? :smile:

Unfortunately I do...Tartabull's good years waved bye-bye to him long before he came to the Sox. He was one of the better power hitters in the game for a few years, but was never really considered a Hall of Famer. Mattingly was a good player on the Yankees, during a stretch when they were pretty brutal. Just because he was the best Yankee on the team at that time, he was undeservedly lumped in along with the all time Yankee greats.

Daver
11-30-2002, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Donnie Baseball has to be the most over-rated player in the history of the game! Hopefully he's never elected.

Without checking I would say Baines put up better numbers that Mattingly,so if Mattingly gets in it gives Harold hope.

Soxheads
11-30-2002, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Unfortunately I do...Tartabull's good years waved bye-bye to him long before he came to the Sox. He was one of the better power hitters in the game for a few years, but was never really considered a Hall of Famer. Mattingly was a good player on the Yankees, during a stretch when they were pretty brutal. Just because he was the best Yankee on the team at that time, he was undeservedly lumped in along with the all time Yankee greats.

I can remember back to 94-95, when I was about 7. For some ungodly reason I was a Mets fan, then my grandma made me become a Cubs fan. That stupid stage ended quickly enough. :smile:

irish rover
11-30-2002, 07:23 PM
I heard Santo made the vet list

WinningUgly!
11-30-2002, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by daver
Without checking I would say Baines put up better numbers that Mattingly,so if Mattingly gets in it gives Harold hope.

Baines(22 seasons) vs. Mattingly(14 seasons) Career Totals...
HR: Baines-384/Mattingly-222
RBI: Baines-1628/Mattingly-1099
BA: Baines-.289/Mattingly-.307
OBP: Baines-.356/Mattingly-.358
SLG: Baines- .465/Mattingly-.471

When averaged out over 162 games, both players' numbers are very comparable. I'm sure Mattingly's would have dropped slightly, had he stuck around for 22 season like Harold...
Baines- 22/93/.289 Mattingly-20/100/.307
I'm not sure either guy is HOF worthy, but Baines definitely has the edge based on total number & longevity.

Daver
11-30-2002, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Baines(22 seasons) vs. Mattingly(14 seasons) Career Totals...
HR: Baines-384/Mattingly-222
RBI: Baines-1628/Mattingly-1099
BA: Baines-.289/Mattingly-.307
OBP: Baines-.356/Mattingly-.358
SLG: Baines- .465/Mattingly-.471

When averaged out over 162 games, both players' numbers are very comparable. I'm sure Mattingly's would have dropped slightly, had he stuck around for 22 season like Harold...
Baines- 22/93/.289 Mattingly-20/100/.307
I'm not sure either guy is HOF worthy, but Baines definitely has the edge based on total number & longevity.

Thanx for doing the homework WU,I was going straight off the top of my head,but Baines would be the first player with more than 1500 RBI to not get in,feel free to doublecheck that if you like.

:)

WinningUgly!
11-30-2002, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by daver
Thanx for doing the homework WU,I was going straight off the top of my head,but Baines would be the first player with more than 1500 RBI to not get in,feel free to doublecheck that if you like.

:)

Yeah, I've heard that before, too. The only thing that will keep Baines out is the fact that he DHed for so many years. The Designated hitter has been a part of baseball for 30 years. Harold has put up more numbers than any other DH in history. Why should a player be penalized for doing something that has been a part of the game for 30 seasons? Do HOF voters take into consideration which league pitchers compile their career numbers in? Most of them probably don't. Imagine the difference, over a 10 year career, in facing a .180 hitting pitcher 2-3 times a game vs. a DH every time through the lineup.

duke of dorwood
11-30-2002, 08:47 PM
Boy, there are quite a number of X Flubs on there too.

DVG
11-30-2002, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by irish rover
I heard Santo made the vet list

Well, Ronnie Baseball was the greatest third baseman in the
history of civilization. Just ask him.

WinningUgly!
11-30-2002, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by DVG
Well, Ronnie Baseball was the greatest third baseman in the
history of civilization. Just ask him. Yep, he sure would tell ya. :D:

MarkEdward
12-01-2002, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by daver
For 2003 your nominees are:

The complete ballot (x-first time eligible): Bert Blyleven, x-Brett Butler, Gary Carter, x-Vince Coleman, Dave Concepcion, x-Darren Daulton, x-Mark Davis, Andre Dawson, x-Sid Fernandez, Steve Garvey, Rich Gossage, Keith Hernandez, x-Rick Honeycutt, x-Danny Jackson, Tommy John, Jim Kaat, x-Darryl Kile, Don Mattingly, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, x-Eddie Murray, Dave Parker, x-Tony Pena, Jim Rice, x-Ryne Sandberg, x-Lee Smith, Bruce Sutter, x-Danny Tartabull, x-Mickey Tettleton, Alan Trammell, x-Fernando Valenzuela, x-Mitch Williams, x-Todd Worrell.
Full story here. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1130/1469094.html)

Without doing any in-depth research:
Those who should get in:
Bert Blyleven
Gary Carter
Rich Gossage (He's a favorite of mine, but I don't think he'll get it)
Eddie Murray

Maybes:
Keith Hernandez
Tommy John
Jim Rice
Allen Trammell

WinningUgly!
12-01-2002, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Rich Gossage (He's a favorite of mine, but I don't think he'll get it)


I think Lee Smith & Bruce Sutter are both more deserving, but Gossage had the better nickname & also has the facial hair edge. :D:

FarWestChicago
12-01-2002, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
I think Lee Smith & Bruce Sutter are both more deserving, but Gossage had the better nickname & also has the facial hair edge. :D: All 3 of those guy were bad men. I remember going to A's games against the Skanks in the 80's out here. They weren't the Skanks of now, but if they had a lead late they gave it to Ron Davis and then Gossage. Lights out every time.

HITMEN OF 77
12-01-2002, 02:45 AM
Do you think Tommy John would go in as a Chi Sox or Dodger? He is probably best remembered for his years as a Dodger, but he Horlen and Peters were the Sox pitching staff in the 60's.

DVG
12-01-2002, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by HITMEN OF 77
Do you think Tommy John would go in as a Chi Sox or Dodger?

That's up to the Hall now. Tom don't got nothin' to say about it.

kermittheefrog
12-01-2002, 07:51 AM
w/o research on the new candidates, my picks for who should go in:
Gary Carter
Bert Blyleven
Eddie Murray
Ryne Sandberg
not necessarily who I think will make it...

I haven't done much research on the relief pitchers but I'm pretty sure one or two of them should make the cut.

TornLabrum
12-01-2002, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
I think Lee Smith & Bruce Sutter are both more deserving, but Gossage had the better nickname & also has the facial hair edge. :D:

Not to mention time served with the Yankees, always a plus for HOF candidates.

DVG
12-01-2002, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
w/o research on the new candidates, my picks for who should go in:
Gary Carter
Bert Blyleven
Eddie Murray
Ryne Sandberg
not necessarily who I think will make it...

I haven't done much research on the relief pitchers but I'm pretty sure one or two of them should make the cut.

Wait a second. Isn't Sandberg already in? I could've sworn that
the Chicago sports media elected Sandberg to the Hall of Fame
in June of 1984, the day after he hit those two home runs off
Bruce Sutter. Harry Caray did, too. I do remember them all pro-
nouncing Sandberg God's gift to 2nd base, the Cubs, the city of
Chicago and civilization in general, so I don't think he'll have any
trouble getting in.

jortafan
12-02-2002, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by DVG
Wait a second. Isn't Sandberg already in? I could've sworn that
the Chicago sports media elected Sandberg to the Hall of Fame
in June of 1984, the day after he hit those two home runs off
Bruce Sutter. Harry Caray did, too. I do remember them all pro-
nouncing Sandberg God's gift to 2nd base, the Cubs, the city of
Chicago and civilization in general, so I don't think he'll have any
trouble getting in.


Don't forget that these are the same people who thought Andre Dawson was a shoo-in, first ballot Hall of Famer. I'd personally love it if Sandberg had to wait a year or two to get in, just to watch these people stew in their own anger for a bit. Personally, I'm not sure if he will or he won't this year. For the record, I can't understand why two of the best relief pitchers of all time, Rich Gossage and Bruce Sutter, are having troubles getting in, especially Gossage. If only we could have figured out a way of keeping him on the South Side, we'd have been a lot better off.

DVG
12-02-2002, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by jortafan
Don't forget that these are the same people who thought Andre Dawson was a shoo-in, first ballot Hall of Famer. I'd personally love it if Sandberg had to wait a year or two to get in, just to watch these people stew in their own anger for a bit. Personally, I'm not sure if he will or he won't this year. For the record, I can't understand why two of the best relief pitchers of all time, Rich Gossage and Bruce Sutter, are having troubles getting in, especially Gossage. If only we could have figured out a way of keeping him on the South Side, we'd have been a lot better off.

No offense to Andre Dawson himself, but I thought his not gett-
ing in last year was downright delicious (to coin a phrase.) It was
fun to hear Cub fans in the media huff and puff with righteous
indignation. He should get in this year or next.

As for St. Ryne of Sandberg, if he has to wait a year or two, the
indignation the Chicago sporting media went through last year
will be nothing compared to the apoplectic seizures that they'll
have this year. I don't anticipate that happening, though. Cub
bias aside, Sandberg was a HOF-caliber player who deserves
to get in.

jortafan
12-03-2002, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by DVG
No offense to Andre Dawson himself, but I thought his not gett-
ing in last year was downright delicious (to coin a phrase.) It was
fun to hear Cub fans in the media huff and puff with righteous
indignation. He should get in this year or next.

As for St. Ryne of Sandberg, if he has to wait a year or two, the
indignation the Chicago sporting media went through last year
will be nothing compared to the apoplectic seizures that they'll
have this year. I don't anticipate that happening, though. Cub
bias aside, Sandberg was a HOF-caliber player who deserves
to get in.


All I know is that if we get stuck with a Cooperstown weekend filled with Andre Dawson, Ryne Sandberg AND Ron Santo getting in in '03, I'm going to puke. That would be just a bit too much cubbie cuteness in one shot.

DVG
12-03-2002, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by jortafan
All I know is that if we get stuck with a Cooperstown weekend filled with Andre Dawson, Ryne Sandberg AND Ron Santo getting in in '03, I'm going to puke. That would be just a bit too much cubbie cuteness in one shot.

You know what? I actually hadn't thought of that scenario. Maybe
because it is so horrifying to even contemplate that I blocked out
the possibility. But you're right. That would be a bit too much. The
thought of Mariotti and Morrissey's poetical, wistful, magical,
mystical columns about Cubbie lore, cuteness, vines and Wrigley
is enough to make me cringe.

"The Horror...the horror...." Marlon Brando- "Apocalypse Now""This is the end, my only friend...the end" Jim Morrison

ode to veeck
12-03-2002, 02:41 PM
Without checking I would say Baines put up better numbers that Mattingly,so if Mattingly gets in it gives Harold hope

Only thing is that Harold has to retire soon enough that the voters can remember him when he gets to the ballot :smile:

I think Lee Smith & Bruce Sutter are both more deserving, but Gossage had the better nickname & also has the facial hair edge.

Goose was downright intimidating and nearly unhittable at his peak, though Sutter was pretty close to unhittable the year he struck out the side in the all star game. How bout the time Goose broke his hand fighting with one of his own teamates, what a character

Here's to too many exFlubs diluting the voting and none gets in this time

Here's to Eddie Murray getting in on his first chance, a shoe in, nice power from both sides of the plate, kind of Mantlesque without the alchohol