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HawkDJ
11-29-2002, 10:15 PM
Its a Cubs fest! ESPN lits Ivan Rodriguez, Jeff Kent and Mike Remlinger are interested in the Cubs.

The Sox have no rumors but Royce Clayton is rumored to go to San Diego, Milwaukee or Tampa Bay.

For a guy who spent the better part of August and September buried on the Chicago bench, Clayton is attracting surprising interest as a free agent. The Brewers could use a veteran to hold down the fort until J.J. Hardy is ready for the big leagues, and the Padres have shown interest, as well.

hsc1
11-29-2002, 10:35 PM
we have no rumors in print as of now.. but monday will bring on yet another kw wonder trade........let me ask you all now ... how do you feel about koch????? get used to seeing him alot around these parts and say good bye to foulke and johnson and a minor player tbnl...........monday......monday........were all going to hate that day.......

guillen4life13
11-29-2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by hsc1
we have no rumors in print as of now.. but monday will bring on yet another kw wonder trade........let me ask you all now ... how do you feel about koch????? get used to seeing him alot around these parts and say good bye to foulke and johnson and a minor player tbnl...........monday......monday........were all going to hate that day.......

Where did you hear/get this information? Could you give more details? Thanks.

Soxheads
11-29-2002, 11:04 PM
I'd rather it be Paul.

WinningUgly!
11-29-2002, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by hsc1
we have no rumors in print as of now.. but monday will bring on yet another kw wonder trade........let me ask you all now ... how do you feel about koch????? get used to seeing him alot around these parts and say good bye to foulke and johnson and a minor player tbnl...........monday......monday........were all going to hate that day.......

Depending on Koch's contract status & who the minor leaguer would be...it doesn't sound like a bad deal. I know Koch has been looking for a long term deal & I don't think he is eligible for free agency for at least another year or two. Foulke is gone after the '03 season & Johnson is nothing more than a throw away player.

HawkDJ
11-29-2002, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by hsc1
we have no rumors in print as of now.. but monday will bring on yet another kw wonder trade........let me ask you all now ... how do you feel about koch????? get used to seeing him alot around these parts and say good bye to foulke and johnson and a minor player tbnl...........monday......monday........were all going to hate that day.......

Thats pretty mysterious

WinningUgly!
11-29-2002, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by HawkDJ2k2
Thats pretty mysterious

Yes it is.

MarkEdward
11-29-2002, 11:14 PM
Am I the only one who can't get Billy Koch's Player Card on baseballprospectus.com?

Soxheads
11-29-2002, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Depending on Koch's contract status & who the minor leaguer would be...it doesn't sound like a bad deal. I know Koch has been looking for a long term deal & I don't think he is eligible for free agency for at least another year or two. Foulke is gone after the '03 season & Johnson is nothing more than a throw away player.

He's arbitration eligible this year, according to this site. (http://www.bluemanc.demon.co.uk/baseball/mlbcontracts.htm)

hsc1
11-29-2002, 11:27 PM
lets just say a very reliable "little birdie" friend of mine told me and leave it at that... i dont want to get him in trouble cause its not supposed to be out till monday in the news... i just figured i would do a public service to everyone and let you all get used to the idea now, as opposed to making you all rant and rave about it later on.......but it does come from a very good source.... i promise you that.....anything that requires an earily am phone call knowing full right well i hate to be woke up before 10 am on the weekend, is definately a matter of urgency, or good reliable news......as far as the deal is concerned... it is to be koch in return for foulke, johnson and a minor player to be named.... depending on who the ptbn is this could work out ok.... im on the fence with this trade till i hear who the mystery player is....i wont loose any sleep over losing johnson, and foulke well...im not too sure yet about him.. but koch brings in a .327 era and 11-4 record coming off last season......not sure what he will require money wise but it cant be all that much more than what we were giving foulke...........

WinningUgly!
11-29-2002, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by hsc1
lets just say a very reliable "little birdie" friend of mine told me and leave it at that... i dont want to get him in trouble cause its not supposed to be out till monday in the news... i just figured i would do a public service to everyone and let you all get used to the idea now, as opposed to making you all rant and rave about it later on.......but it does come from a very good source.... i promise you that.....anything that requires an earily am phone call knowing full right well i hate to be woke up before 10 am on the weekend, is definately a matter of urgency, or good reliable news......as far as the deal is concerned... it is to be koch in return for foulke, johnson and a minor player to be named.... depending on who the ptbn is this could work out ok.... im on the fence with this trade till i hear who the mystery player is....i wont loose any sleep over losing johnson, and foulke well...im not too sure yet about him.. but koch brings in a .327 era and 11-4 record coming off last season......not sure what he will require money wise but it cant be all that much more than what we were giving foulke...........

How did this "little birdie" feel about the deal?

Soxheads
11-29-2002, 11:32 PM
Something about this deal just diesn't make sense... :?:

Jerry_Manuel
11-29-2002, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Soxheads
Something about this deal just diesn't make sense... :?:

Mark Johnson.

Everyone wants him.

hsc1
11-29-2002, 11:37 PM
not all too happy actually.....i feel he knows who the ptbnl was but he wouldnt give it up.....which makes me feel that theres another trade or something worse coming down the line.......it was not a positive conversation, despite me pointing out the good possibilities (something i havent done all off season thus far... point out good that is).........with the appointment of schu waiting on the wings in balt (should know by tuesday at the latest)... i feel that frank may soon be on the move shortly after that..........that was hinted but not confirmed solid yet though..........

WinningUgly!
11-29-2002, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Mark Johnson.

Everyone wants him. That has to be it! :D:

Jerry_Manuel
11-29-2002, 11:40 PM
Sweet.

No more cry baby Foulke. Weird looking Koch. No Thomas.

Should be a fun locker room.

WinningUgly!
11-29-2002, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Sweet.

No more cry baby Foulke. Weird looking Koch. No Thomas.

Should be a fun locker room.
:hawk
"I love bad facial hair!"

Jerry_Manuel
11-29-2002, 11:47 PM
I can't wait till Koch meets Bruce Kimm.

Oh man.

:)

baggio202
11-30-2002, 02:54 AM
this deal is so typical of KW...its just like the boomer - siro deal...we needed one more quality starter..so we trade out best starter to get one and are still in the same boat...

we need to stregthen the bullpen so we trade foulke for koch... basically leaving the bullpen in the same situation...i have no problem with adding koch..he is a quality pitcher...but we need to deal from somewhere else...a bullpen of koch - foulke - marte as our top 3 guys would look real nice and be a step in the direction....

foulke was 1-0 with an era of 0.74 after the all star game last year..we are gonna get screwed on this deal..i expect foulke to bounce back with a real solid season next year...

would billy bean take carlos lee instead???...i cant take another year of watching that fool get picked off base atleast once a week..

kermittheefrog
11-30-2002, 03:04 AM
If you are correct about this deal I want to shoot myself in the foot. Over the last three years Foulke has a much better ERA and has allowed fewer walks and home runs than Billy Koch. Koch is overrated because he's now a "proven" closer and he throws really hard. Koch isn't half the reliever Foulke is. Foulke has saved about twice as many runs as Koch has over the last 3 years. If you extend things one more year the gap between the two players gets even bigger. Giving up Keith Foulke for Billy Koch would be a major losing move for the White Sox. Also losing Mark Johnson and a minor leaguer would just be Billy Beane throwing salt in the wound.

kermittheefrog
11-30-2002, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Am I the only one who can't get Billy Koch's Player Card on baseballprospectus.com?

Search for Bill Koch, not Billy.

kermittheefrog
11-30-2002, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by Soxheads
Something about this deal just diesn't make sense... :?:

I'd say it doesn't make sense if Kenny even considers this deal.

voodoochile
11-30-2002, 07:31 AM
Trading a closer for a closer is not about making the team stronger, it is about saving the $3M in salary difference between the two (I'm guessing based on Koch's $2.35M salary from 2002).

My question comes down to how they will use Koch. He blew 6 saves (in 50 opportunities) last year. If those come in a string, JM will bench him and use Marte or someone else (Osuna seems to be a favorite). Then what good is the deal?

This is all about the money... once again... sigh...

Tragg
11-30-2002, 10:02 AM
Has Koch been a better reliever than Foulke over the last 3 years? No.

Saves, ERA, WHIP

Koch: 144, 3.48, 1.32
Foulke: 100, 3.32, 1.06

Why give up more than 1 for 1 - IF you must make that trade?


Johnson is a capable major league receiver - good defender, not much with the bat - still, Johnson does walk fairly regularly for a catcher - as much as, say Jave Lopez or Paul LoDuca. - which takes the sting out of his offense. Johnson is a useful player; and we don't have anyone to take his place, unless we start trading for mediocre catchers like the cubs have been doing.

This is a crazy trade. But would be typical Kenny Williams.

TornLabrum
11-30-2002, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Has Koch been a better reliever than Foulke over the last 3 years? No.

Saves, ERA, WHIP

Koch: 144, 3.48, 1.32
Foulke: 100, 3.32, 1.06

Why give up more than 1 for 1 - IF you must make that trade?


Johnson is a capable major league receiver - good defender, not much with the bat - still, Johnson does walk fairly regularly for a catcher - as much as, say Jave Lopez or Paul LoDuca. - which takes the sting out of his offense. Johnson is a useful player; and we don't have anyone to take his place, unless we start trading for mediocre catchers like the cubs have been doing.

This is a crazy trade. But would be typical Kenny Williams.

The only reason I even think the post has credibility is because it is so insane. It has the mark of Prof. Chaos all over it. He's overpaying, going more than head-to-head on the trade, overvaluing someone else's talent while undervaluing his own. That's why it sounds true.

HawkDJ
11-30-2002, 10:40 AM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=130206

guillen4life13
11-30-2002, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by hsc1
not all too happy actually.....i feel he knows who the ptbnl was but he wouldnt give it up.....which makes me feel that theres another trade or something worse coming down the line.......it was not a positive conversation, despite me pointing out the good possibilities (something i havent done all off season thus far... point out good that is).........with the appointment of schu waiting on the wings in balt (should know by tuesday at the latest)... i feel that frank may soon be on the move shortly after that..........that was hinted but not confirmed solid yet though..........

Tell us more about Thomas' situation.

Joel Perez
11-30-2002, 11:23 AM
If HSC1 is right...why would the Sox get Koch?

It doesn't make sense...the Sox already have a closer in waiting in :kmarte, and have a capable backup in :osuna, so why would we add any more significant payroll by acquiring a Bill Koch???

As the immortal Elmer Fudd eloquently puts it:

There's something screwwy awound here!.

SoxxoS
11-30-2002, 11:31 AM
Why does Prof. Chaos (or any GM) want to deal with Billy Beane? He has proven he is one of the best minds in baseball, and will pick KW's pocket faster than a fat kid at Sizzler.

Joel Perez
11-30-2002, 11:43 AM
Prof. Chaos, huh? :D:
That reminds me...why does Kenny Williams remind me of Dexter in that Dexter's Laboratory cartoon? Isn't KW always trying to use his "scientific intellect" to create something, sort of like KW?

Does anyone has a Dexter tag for the board?

WinningUgly!
11-30-2002, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
The only reason I even think the post has credibility is because it is so insane. It has the mark of Prof. Chaos all over it. He's overpaying, going more than head-to-head on the trade, overvaluing someone else's talent while undervaluing his own. That's why it sounds true.

I wonder in Koch's nickname has anything to do with "Prof. Chaos" dealing for him? According to this (http://www.geocities.com/gds51_girl/Billy_Koch_FanPage.html) it's "Captain Chaos"! Coincidence? I think not.http://www.themorlocks.com/talk/images/smiles/gene.gif

Soxheads
11-30-2002, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
I wonder in Koch's nickname has anything to do with "Prof. Chaos" dealing for him? According to this (http://www.geocities.com/gds51_girl/Billy_Koch_FanPage.html) it's "Captain Chaos"! Coincidence? I think not.http://www.themorlocks.com/talk/images/smiles/gene.gif

Is there a countdown to something in your sig?

I just can't see this deal happening.

ScottyTheSoxFan
11-30-2002, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
According to this (http://www.geocities.com/gds51_girl/Billy_Koch_FanPage.html)

the person who made that site likes koch a little too much.

duke of dorwood
11-30-2002, 01:13 PM
Remember folks, in the land of tinkering, Foulke is NOT our closer. No matter how well he pitched at the end of last year, this regime feels gypped and will unload him rather than bring him back. It comes down to Koch vs. Marte on this team and Koch wins that hands down. Foulke should have been closing in September, but he wasn't.

:KW

I cant trade unless I give up 3 guys, you know that.

Soxheads
11-30-2002, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Remember folks, in the land of tinkering, Foulke is NOT our closer. No matter how well he pitched at the end of last year, this regime feels gypped and will unload him rather than bring him back. It comes down to Koch vs. Marte on this team and Koch wins that hands down. Foulke should have been closing in September, but he wasn't.

:KW

I cant trade unless I give up 3 guys, you know that.

I totally agree. Foulke got screwed by our "closer by comittee" bunch. He should have been saving games all year long.

I see Marte and Wunsch being our "specialty lefties" if this goes through.

HawkDJ
11-30-2002, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Joel Perez
If HSC1 is right...why would the Sox get Koch?

It doesn't make sense...the Sox already have a closer in waiting in :kmarte, and have a capable backup in :osuna, so why would we add any more significant payroll by acquiring a Bill Koch???

As the immortal Elmer Fudd eloquently puts it:

There's something screwwy awound here!.


Add significant payroll? Koch is being payed less than Foulke and we are dumping MJ

Joel Perez
11-30-2002, 03:46 PM
I thought Koch is getting more...
he's only signed on for two more years @ about $1 mil per, while Foulke is getting $4-5 mil per. Hmmmmmmmm....

Daver
11-30-2002, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Joel Perez
I thought Koch is getting more...
he's only signed on for two more years @ about $1 mil per, while Foulke is getting $4-5 mil per. Hmmmmmmmm....

Koch's contract status:

2000: $0.25M (+$0.25M signing bonus)
2001: $0.65M
2002: $2.35M
2003: Arbitration eligible (3 years+)

WinningUgly!
11-30-2002, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Soxheads
Is there a countdown to something in your sig?

I just can't see this deal happening.

Something. :D:

WinningUgly!
11-30-2002, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by ScottyTheSoxFan
the person who made that site likes koch a little too much.

Yeah, that has to be scary for Koch to see.

baggio202
11-30-2002, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Yeah, that has to be scary for Koch to see.

can you say restraining order??

RedPinStripes
11-30-2002, 06:48 PM
I wouldnt mind this trade. Why do we have all these Foulke fans now when everyone **** their pants whenever he came out. Foulke has 2 pitches. He says he has 3 . Thathing he calls a breaking ball is a dead giveaway and hangs more then anything. MJ can go. that dont bother me, but adding another player is a little too much. The minor leaguer better not be anyone good.

Daver
11-30-2002, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
I wouldnt mind this trade. Why do we have all these Foulke fans now when everyone **** their pants whenever he came out. Foulke has 2 pitches. He says he has 3 . Thathing he calls a breaking ball is a dead giveaway and hangs more then anything. MJ can go. that dont bother me, but adding another player is a little too much. The minor leaguer better not be anyone good.

If this has any validity,which I find hard to beleive,as the A's are trying to cut payroll,not add it,the minor leaguer is no one on the 40 man roster and cannot be revealed until after the rule 5 draft.

I still have my doubts about this whole thing though.

RedPinStripes
11-30-2002, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by daver
If this has any validity,which I find hard to beleive,as the A's are trying to cut payroll,not add it,the minor leaguer is no one on the 40 man roster and cannot be revealed until after the rule 5 draft.

I still have my doubts about this whole thing though.

I cant wait till monday to find out if it is true.

CLR01
11-30-2002, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by Soxheads


Is there a countdown to something in your sig?

I just can't see this deal happening.


Originally posted by WinningUgly!


Something. :D:


The days left until Dave Wannstedt and the Dolphins hand the Bears their ass on Monday night. Ofcourse WU your wrong the number should be 9. :D:


I wouldnt mind this trade. Why do we have all these Foulke fans now when everyone **** their pants whenever he came out. Foulke has 2 pitches. He says he has 3 . Thathing he calls a breaking ball is a dead giveaway and hangs more then anything. MJ can go.


2 pitches or 3 he is still pretty effective. I wouldnt mind seeing MJ leave either, atleast then i wouldnt have to hear that lady go crazy everytime he comes to the plate when i attend a game.

HawkDJ
11-30-2002, 08:32 PM
The trade wouldn't be terrible, yet I can't see how we are really imporving by this trade.

BTW wouldn't it be funny if this trade never happened? Ha! :D:

WinningUgly!
11-30-2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by CLR01
The days left until Dave Wannstedt and the Dolphins hand the Bears their ass on Monday night. Ofcourse WU your wrong the number should be 9. :D:

That's it...you got me. :D:

TornLabrum
11-30-2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by HawkDJ2k2
The trade wouldn't be terrible, yet I can't see how we are really imporving by this trade.

BTW wouldn't it be funny if this trade never happened? Ha! :D:

That's the problem. Anyone can come here and say they know someone from the Sox who is an unimpeachable source, and that such and such a trade is going to happen. I'm taking the story with a grain of salt, and the only comment I made is that it's such a stupid trade idea that I wouldn't put it past Prof. Chaos. Period.

:KW

"For my next trick, I'll turn silk into a sow's ear."

Lip Man 1
11-30-2002, 09:36 PM
I will not ask for the source (I know better) but I WILL ask if this "source" is now actively employed in a scouting / evaluating position for a MLB team or a member of a MLB roster. If they aren't, I wouldn't waste my breath worring over this.

Unless the source is a relative of the person who started this trade notion, I find it hard to believe that they would call out of the blue and tell someone "hey the Sox are trading Foulke Monday..."

If they do then I'll apologize, but the circumstances surrounding this news is a little hard to believe.

Lip

hose
11-30-2002, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by hsc1
we have no rumors in print as of now.. but monday will bring on yet another kw wonder trade........let me ask you all now ... how do you feel about koch????? get used to seeing him alot around these parts and say good bye to foulke and johnson and a minor player tbnl...........monday......monday........were all going to hate that day.......


Salary dump?

I do like the Sox young relief pitching down in the minors.

The two left handed kids in the AFL league ,Sanders and Stewart are putting up some very impressive numbers.

Stewart 1-0 0.68 era 26 IP 21 H 5 BB 20 SO
Sanders 6-0 0.51 era 18 IP 12 H 3 BB 13 SO

I think the Sox strength will come from the bullpen this season. Hopefully the Sox can duplicate what the Angels did and come up with their own Lackey and K-Rod.

Have you heard anything on Jon Adkins?

Daver
11-30-2002, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by hose
Salary dump?

I do like the Sox young relief pitching down in the minors.

The two left handed kids in the AFL league ,Sanders and Stewart are putting up some very impressive numbers.

Stewart 1-0 0.68 era 26 IP 21 H 5 BB 20 SO
Sanders 6-0 0.51 era 18 IP 12 H 3 BB 13 SO

I think the Sox strength will come from the bullpen this season. Hopefully the Sox can duplicate what the Angels did and come up with their own Lackey and K-Rod.

Have you heard anything on Jon Adkins?

Stewart is a starter,and Jon Adkins finished the AFL with an ERA under 2.00

jeremyb1
11-30-2002, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by daver
Stewart is a starter,and Jon Adkins finished the AFL with an ERA under 2.00

adkins' numbers era from the afl was 5.50.

Daver
11-30-2002, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
adkins' numbers era from the afl was 5.50.

I went from memory and you have yet to learn how to use the shift key.

nut_stock
11-30-2002, 11:36 PM
Maybe Foulke is injured, and were shipping him out like Sirotka.

Shouldergate II

OfficerKarkovice
12-01-2002, 12:09 AM
Just off the record I believe WU's sig. stands for the days remaining until the Big Hurt returns as a member of the White Sox (the day can't come soon enough).

And as far as the trade goes I would love to see it as long as the minor leaguer is someone who makes no difference whatsoever. There is nothing better than a mean, intimidating looking closer and Koch certainly fits that bill. He has a much better arm than Foulke and has only been in the league 5 years and I believe still has a lot of room to improve.

Paulwny
12-01-2002, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
If you are correct about this deal I want to shoot myself in the foot. Over the last three years Foulke has a much better ERA and has allowed fewer walks and home runs than Billy Koch. Koch is overrated because he's now a "proven" closer and he throws really hard. Koch isn't half the reliever Foulke is. Foulke has saved about twice as many runs as Koch has over the last 3 years. If you extend things one more year the gap between the two players gets even bigger. Giving up Keith Foulke for Billy Koch would be a major losing move for the White Sox. Also losing Mark Johnson and a minor leaguer would just be Billy Beane throwing salt in the wound.

Agree, Koch tries blowing away hitters with >95 mph fast balls.
His fast ball has very little movement and when he can't bring it at >95 mph he becomes very hittable., similar to Thigpen in his later years.

baggio202
12-01-2002, 11:37 AM
to sum this possible trade up....KW dealing with billy bean = :whiner: for us sox fans

Huisj
12-01-2002, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
to sum this possible trade up....KW dealing with billy bean = :whiner: for us sox fans

didn't bean take a job somewhere else, or am i imagining that? er wait, maybe that was howe.

the thing that scares me a bit about koch is that he seems like the sort of player who will suddenly have a torn elbow ligament, and foulke does not. i dunno what to think about this possible deal

RedPinStripes
12-01-2002, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Huisj
didn't bean take a job somewhere else, or am i imagining that? er wait, maybe that was howe.

the thing that scares me a bit about koch is that he seems like the sort of player who will suddenly have a torn elbow ligament, and foulke does not. i dunno what to think about this possible deal

Bean was offered a job in Boston, but rejected it. Howe did sign with the Mets.

jeremyb1
12-01-2002, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by daver
I went from memory and you have yet to learn how to use the shift key.

correct. you were able to read it?

pearso66
12-01-2002, 08:30 PM
i wonder if this other deal in the works could be koch and someone else for colon, i havnt heard much about him, but i havnt been online since wednesday, but that would improve us

RedPinStripes
12-01-2002, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
i wonder if this other deal in the works could be koch and someone else for colon, i havnt heard much about him, but i havnt been online since wednesday, but that would improve us

Oh, i wish i could dream that much still. I dont give the organization that much credit.

HawkDJ
12-01-2002, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
i wonder if this other deal in the works could be koch and someone else for colon, i havnt heard much about him, but i havnt been online since wednesday, but that would improve us

Don't waste your time

hold2dibber
12-02-2002, 08:42 AM
If Billy Koch is our closer next year (and it seems pretty unlikely to me), people will be waxing poetic about the good ole' days of Keith Foulke by the end of May.

pearso66
12-02-2002, 09:23 AM
unless we are gonna use koch in another deal to get a top notch starter, id rather have foulke as my closer

SoxFan14
12-02-2002, 09:58 AM
I agree with all of you who question this rumor. I thought the same thing...."I'll believe it when I see it." However, it brought to mind a question: Why would someone start a rumor and say you'll hear about it on Monday. When Monday comes and there's no trade to report, wouldn't that person feel a wee bit stupid? Why would someone do that?

Lip Man 1
12-02-2002, 10:41 AM
Maybe because they have an inflated sense of self worth?

or maybe they enjoy seeing certain Sox fans at WSI immediately start acting like the rumor is 100% accurate and start postulyzing on the ramifications etc... (i.e. "how about we package Koch in a deal for Colon yadda, yadda, yadda...)

Lip

WinningUgly!
12-02-2002, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Maybe because they have an inflated sense of self worth?

or maybe they enjoy seeing certain Sox fans at WSI immediately start acting like the rumor is 100% accurate and start postulyzing on the ramifications etc... (i.e. "how about we package Koch in a deal for Colon yadda, yadda, yadda...)

Lip

A rumor is a rumor is a rumor. They come from sports talk radio, Peter Gammons, the WSI boards, etc. Without an actual quote from someone within the White Sox organization they are all equally worthless. It is pretty funny that rumors posted here are taken more seriously than those coming from "media" sources. It says a lot about this site & even more about the media.:D:

C'mon Lip, you know better than anybody that this is the best time for Sox fans to talk about all of our big trades & free agent signings. Once the offseason transactions are all actually done, it's no longer fun. Just like A-Rod ended up turning into Royce Clayton for us a few years ago...Colon will end up being Trachsel or Bere this year. :whiner:

34 Inch Stick
12-02-2002, 12:19 PM
All of this talk finally gets back to my prediction of Trachsell. I knew if I said it enough I would make a convert.

cheeses_h_rice
12-02-2002, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by hsc1
we have no rumors in print as of now.. but monday will bring on yet another kw wonder trade........let me ask you all now ... how do you feel about koch????? get used to seeing him alot around these parts and say good bye to foulke and johnson and a minor player tbnl...........monday......monday........were all going to hate that day.......

OK, HSC, I'm waaaaaaaaiting....! It's almost 5:00!

idseer
12-02-2002, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
If Billy Koch is our closer next year (and it seems pretty unlikely to me), people will be waxing poetic about the good ole' days of Keith Foulke by the end of May.


i was waxing poetic about keith's good ole' days LAST may!

longshot7
12-02-2002, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan14
I agree with all of you who question this rumor. I thought the same thing...."I'll believe it when I see it." However, it brought to mind a question: Why would someone start a rumor and say you'll hear about it on Monday. When Monday comes and there's no trade to report, wouldn't that person feel a wee bit stupid? Why would someone do that?

well, monday has come and gone with no trade....

so hsc, I think it's gonna be a long time before you regain your credibility here.

hsc1
12-02-2002, 07:52 PM
the word i got was there was a delay in a contract signing... its done now.. mark my words the deal will be announced.....youll see..........

baggio202
12-02-2002, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by hsc1
the word i got was there was a delay in a contract signing... its done now.. mark my words the deal will be announced.....youll see..........

guys, i know HSC personally and have attended sox games with her..she has season tix behind homeplate...i sat with her once in those seats i couldnt believe how many people came up to her to say hi..after wards id ask who was that and she would say oh he is in charge of this or that for the sox.(i dont wanna give any specifics because i feel it would be breaking a confidence with her but believe me she knows quite a few people that are in the know as far as dealing with the sox)..she also has family in birmingham and spends alot of time at the barons games so she gets to know these guys and their families before they hit the sox...there has been more than one family member of a white sox player that has stayed at her house while they were in town..i know this for a fact.(again , not gonna name names)

if this deal doesnt go through it does not mean that HSC was lying to us or making stuff up...a lot of times deals fall through at the last minute...and after HSC brought this to our attention there was a report on WSCR that came from their sources that said a deal between the sox and oakland for billy koch was in the works...since we heard from HSC first if this deal doesnt go through it shouldnt damage her credibility..

btw , last year HSC also gave us a heads up on the ritchie deal..which did go through , unfortunately..

Hullett_Fan
12-02-2002, 08:24 PM
If Reinsdork uses the $$$ savings to get a new CF (Finley), C (Pudge II) or pitcher (Moyer)....it's a great deal.

If he pockets it...I may attend only 1 or 2 games this year as opposed to 15 - 20.

Lip Man 1
12-02-2002, 10:09 PM
Hullett:

Looks like you won't be going to many games then! (LOL LOL LOL)

Also to hsc, perhaps it's time to name your "source" and let the readers judge for themselves how real the possibility is. Because frankly if you were in the actual media business you'd be toasted, roasted and fried by now. If you can't (or won't) "name" your source, then information is needed of the individual's position.

What are we talking about here? A person say who is an assistant PR staffer with the Sox?, a janitor?, a groundskeeper? Kenny Williams secretary???

Before I can determine your credibility (which right now isn't very high) I need to have a better idea of how authentic the information and source is. Sorry that's the way this business works (and with respect I do know something about it)
Lip

rmusacch
12-02-2002, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by hsc1
lets just say a very reliable "little birdie" friend of mine told me and leave it at that... i dont want to get him in trouble cause its not supposed to be out till monday in the news... i just figured i would do a public service to everyone and let you all get used to the idea now, as opposed to making you all rant and rave about it later on.......but it does come from a very good source.... i promise you that.....anything that requires an earily am phone call knowing full right well i hate to be woke up before 10 am on the weekend, is definately a matter of urgency, or good reliable news......as far as the deal is concerned... it is to be koch in return for foulke, johnson and a minor player to be named.... depending on who the ptbn is this could work out ok.... im on the fence with this trade till i hear who the mystery player is....i wont loose any sleep over losing johnson, and foulke well...im not too sure yet about him.. but koch brings in a .327 era and 11-4 record coming off last season......not sure what he will require money wise but it cant be all that much more than what we were giving foulke...........

What happened to your very reliable source?

baggio202
12-02-2002, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Hullett:

Looks like you won't be going to many games then! (LOL LOL LOL)

Also to hsc, perhaps it's time to name your "source" and let the readers judge for themselves how real the possibility is. Because frankly if you were in the actual media business you'd be toasted, roasted and fried by now. If you can't (or won't) "name" your source, then information is needed of the individual's position.

What are we talking about here? A person say who is an assistant PR staffer with the Sox?, a janitor?, a groundskeeper? Kenny Williams secretary???

Before I can determine your credibility (which right now isn't very high) I need to have a better idea of how authentic the information and source is. Sorry that's the way this business works (and with respect I do know something about it)
Lip

lip...i gotta say i like reading your stuff and pretty much agree with your take on the sox...its a mickey mouse organization and about 90% of the time you nail them...but in regaurds to HSC i gotta wonder what the hell are you smoking :smile:

2 things...first she is not a reporter..she , unlike you , is not getting paid for what she writes..she has some inside connections that have been varified by myself and others (see whitesox .com boards)...she put that information out , which btw , was also reported as a deal in the works by WSCR , as a favor to us and it opened up a nice debate...i dont think she should be ragged on for not naming her source...

and 2nd..and this is a big 2nd...your telling her its time to name her sources???..reporters have gone to jail in the name of protecting their sources...first amendment stuff??..if she names the person who told her this then he/she will probably never give her anymore inside info and if it did get back to the sox and this person wasnt suppose to say anything then their job could be in jeapordy..you seriously cant expect her to drop a name??...if someone told you this trade was gonna happen and just dont use my name as the source would you give them up???

maybe the best thing was for HSC not to say anything at all but she did put it out for us to discuss..for our benefit....so maybe we should cut her some slack

OfficerKarkovice
12-02-2002, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Hullett:

Looks like you won't be going to many games then! (LOL LOL LOL)

Also to hsc, perhaps it's time to name your "source" and let the readers judge for themselves how real the possibility is. Because frankly if you were in the actual media business you'd be toasted, roasted and fried by now. If you can't (or won't) "name" your source, then information is needed of the individual's position.

What are we talking about here? A person say who is an assistant PR staffer with the Sox?, a janitor?, a groundskeeper? Kenny Williams secretary???

Before I can determine your credibility (which right now isn't very high) I need to have a better idea of how authentic the information and source is. Sorry that's the way this business works (and with respect I do know something about it)
Lip

What are you jealous because somebody else knew about deals that the allmighty Lip Man didn't? This is a public board and she can post damn well whatever she wants...whether you want to believe her or not no one really gives a sh*t. I for one appreciate her posting this and according to others, such as baggio, she has credible sources and I have no reason to not believe her.

Lip Man 1
12-02-2002, 11:45 PM
Gang:

First off, I don't get paid a dime by WSI same as Daver, Far West Chicago and Pale Hose George.

Second, I also suggest (if you read the post) that if she doesn't want to name her source at least give us some idea of how "reliable" that "source" is. I do this myself just to avoid what has already occured in this case.

Yes, REPORTERS have gone to jail rather then name a source...not a FAN posting something that may or may not be true. The circumstances are vastly different.

My feeling is that if somebody wants to make an educated "guess" at what may happen fine, that's what the boards are for but to come out and say something is DEFINATELY going to happen on a certain date, and then when it doesn't, the best they can do is say "mark my words it'll happen.." doesn't cut it. I'm sorry. For me to believe I need more then that.

This person felt safe enough to make the original claim, to talk the talk... now it's time to pay the piper because it didn't take place.

You don't want to name a source or give us an idea how reliable that is... fine, that's your right. I think it's wrong though to be claiming to have inside information and then not be willing to back it up.

Last point, this person may very well have "inside" info and have been correct in the past, however, I don't know this person, what she does or how accurate she's been. And taking somebody's "word" vouching for her doesn't do me any good either because I don't know the folks who are vouching for her! (same as you when I say something, I could be lying through my teeth, how would you know? You've never met me have you?)

I only know what I see in the hear and now. When somebody makes this type of claim, I need to see the results not promises.

As I said a few days ago, if this comes to pass, I'll apologize in big letters. But it hasn't has it? And judging by what some of the others have posted on this thread they don't seem to be enthralled by it either.

Lip

jeremyb1
12-03-2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Gang:

First off, I don't get paid a dime by WSI same as Daver, Far West Chicago and Pale Hose George.

Second, I also suggest (if you read the post) that if she doesn't want to name her source at least give us some idea of how "reliable" that "source" is. I do this myself just to avoid what has already occured in this case.

Yes, REPORTERS have gone to jail rather then name a source...not a FAN posting something that may or may not be true. The circumstances are vastly different.

My feeling is that if somebody wants to make an educated "guess" at what may happen fine, that's what the boards are for but to come out and say something is DEFINATELY going to happen on a certain date, and then when it doesn't, the best they can do is say "mark my words it'll happen.." doesn't cut it. I'm sorry. For me to believe I need more then that.

This person felt safe enough to make the original claim, to talk the talk... now it's time to pay the piper because it didn't take place.

You don't want to name a source or give us an idea how reliable that is... fine, that's your right. I think it's wrong though to be claiming to have inside information and then not be willing to back it up.

Last point, this person may very well have "inside" info and have been correct in the past, however, I don't know this person, what she does or how accurate she's been. And taking somebody's "word" vouching for her doesn't do me any good either because I don't know the folks who are vouching for her! (same as you when I say something, I could be lying through my teeth, how would you know? You've never met me have you?)

I only know what I see in the hear and now. When somebody makes this type of claim, I need to see the results not promises.

As I said a few days ago, if this comes to pass, I'll apologize in big letters. But it hasn't has it? And judging by what some of the others have posted on this thread they don't seem to be enthralled by it either.

Lip

perhaps hsc should've phrased the rumor a little bit better and not implied that it was an absolute sure thing that the deal would go down on monday since nothing in for sure with deals like this. however, the fact that a major news source reported the same rumor coraborates her story. regardless of whether or not the deal actually goes through its clear it was something that was very seriously considered by the front office and information about potential deals such as this are valuable at least to me.

if hsc were to name her source, the person would have no reason to report similar info to her in the future and we would not receive the information second hand. i see no reason to critsize her or demands she provides the source.

DVG
12-03-2002, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
perhaps hsc should've phrased the rumor a little bit better and not implied that it was an absolute sure thing that the deal would go down on monday since nothing in for sure with deals like this. however, the fact that a major news source reported the same rumor coraborates her story. regardless of whether or not the deal actually goes through its clear it was something that was very seriously considered by the front office and information about potential deals such as this are valuable at least to me.

if hsc were to name her source, the person would have no reason to report similar info to her in the future and we would not receive the information second hand. i see no reason to critsize her or demands she provides the source.

I was thinking...is it possible that WSCR reported a possible deal
because someone from there got their info from this thread?
Just wondering.

SoxxoS
12-03-2002, 01:38 AM
If this deal does or does not go through, I encourage HSC to keep posting what she hears. It gives us something to talk about in this lowly offseason other than a Konerko and Kelly Wunsch signing. She can post what she want, rumor or not. Like jeremy said, she should maybe have not said the deal would FOR SURE go down on Monday. If someone puts any statement that way, our instincts automatically think how it cannot happen.

Lip-you cant get your BVD's in a bunch over a rumor that may have a little more credibility than some others. Whether or not she has inside info, and she has been vouched for, is not the issue. It gives us Sox fans something to discuss in the offseason.

THE_HOOTER
12-03-2002, 09:17 AM
I agree with most who say that she can post her rumors here anytime she wants, and doesn't need to reveal a source.

But, remember this--if behavior and habits that are stupid and immature are tolerated and accepted on this board day in and day out, you'll have nothing but trolls here in due time.

If you want to post a trade rumor, have at it. But we are serious fans here, and we want at least legit "rumors".

Anytime someone says it will happen for sure and it doesnt, a red flag should go up.

Unforntunately, that is the first sign of a troll-not that this is the case here!

voodoochile
12-03-2002, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
I agree with most who say that she can post her rumors here anytime she wants, and doesn't need to reveal a source.

But, remember this--if behavior and habits that are stupid and immature are tolerated and accepted on this board day in and day out, you'll have nothing but trolls here in due time.

If you want to post a trade rumor, have at it. But we are serious fans here, and we want at least legit "rumors".

Anytime someone says it will happen for sure and it doesnt, a red flag should go up.

Unforntunately, that is the first sign of a troll-not that this is the case here!

Rumors suck, but there is nothing wrong with someone posting what they feel is true. There is nothing to imply that the person who posted it felt it was anything but true and they felt they had a reliable source. Hasn't come to pass, but that doesn't make them wrong for posting it, imo. Still, anyone who posts a rumor and claims to have a reliable source should also expect to catch grief if their prediction doesn't come to pass.

As to the trolls, please, let them come. I am itching to hang a couple of scalps on the wall...

jeremyb1
12-03-2002, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by DVG
I was thinking...is it possible that WSCR reported a possible deal
because someone from there got their info from this thread?
Just wondering.

seems unlikely to me. i'd imagine wscr has to hear from someone working for the team to publisize a rumor like that.

Lip Man 1
12-03-2002, 12:22 PM
Gang:

A few final points on this whole issue.

Looking back I was wrong to ask for a source. I should have known better. (Although I also asked for a general description of the source which would enable us to make a better determination of the reliability of the individual as well as protect them. i.e. Someone who works in the marketing department, someone who works in ticket sales told me...)

So in that area I do apologize. No excuses.

I'm wondering though about the sudden rush to automatically believe WSCR in this. Correct me if I'm wrong since WSCR isn't available over the internet, but don't most of you who post on these boards think that station is dogdung? How many times have I read criticism of the station and talent?

Now suddenly everyone is rushing to their defense?

Granted this trade could still happen and it very well may in the next few days but until it actually DOES, let's all step back and stop wondering about how Williams screwed us (again), let's deal Koch for Colon etc.

Remember the Sox thought the acquired Darin Erstadt didn't they?

Coloraod and Arizona thought they swapped Matt Williams and Larry Walker didn't they?

Goofy thing happen....players get hurt....people can even die before things are signed.

So let's wait and see before rushing to judgement.

Lip

ozzman
12-03-2002, 12:27 PM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1203/1470567.html

dammit kw, easily a worse gm than hawk, and thats saying a lot. why dont we trade magglio for david justice and a few minor leaguers. oh wait, we'd have to include some cash for the deal. billy beane's eyes must light up anytime he sees kw's # on his caller id

PaleHoseGeorge
12-03-2002, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by ozzman
dammit kw, easily a worse gm than hawk, and thats saying a lot. why dont we trade magglio for david justice and a few minor leaguers. oh wait, we'd have to include some cash for the deal. billy beane's eyes must light up anytime he sees kw's # on his caller id

Damn, I hope Beane is considerate enough to give Kenny a kiss after he ****s over the Sox for the millionth time. :smile:

:KW
"Billy also promised me a World Series share when the A's take the title. He thinks I deserve it. Suh-weeet, huh?"

DrCrawdad
12-03-2002, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Gang:

A few final points on this whole issue...

I'm wondering though about the sudden rush to automatically believe WSCR in this. Correct me if I'm wrong since WSCR isn't available over the internet, but don't most of you who post on these boards think that station is dogdung? How many times have I read criticism of the station and talent?

Now suddenly everyone is rushing to their defense?

Granted this trade could still happen and it very well may in the next few days but until it actually DOES, let's all step back and stop wondering about how Williams screwed us (again), let's deal Koch for Colon etc.

Remember the Sox thought the acquired Darin Erstadt didn't they?

Coloraod and Arizona thought they swapped Matt Williams and Larry Walker didn't they?

Goofy thing happen....players get hurt....people can even die before things are signed.

So let's wait and see before rushing to judgement.

Lip

FWIW ESPN.com is reporting this, not as a rumor, but as though the deal is done.

jeremyb1
12-03-2002, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
FWIW ESPN.com is reporting this, not as a rumor, but as though the deal is done.

yep it certainly appears hsc was vindicated. i guess she was a little too adamant about the exact date but she did post the rumor 3 or 4 days before the deal went through. pretty impressive.

Dadawg_77
12-03-2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
FWIW ESPN.com is reporting this, not as a rumor, but as though the deal is done.

I wish it was a rumor.

Lip Man 1
12-03-2002, 01:07 PM
With the report at Noon my time by The Sporting News radio network that the deal is done...

Let me be the first to congratulate and apologize to hsc for my harsh criticism. hsc was correct and being off only 24 hours is pretty damn good. hsc must have a wired in source.



Question for the "stat freaks". Koch had 11 wins last season. That's an ungodly amount for a closer. Any reason for this?

Did he blow a bunch of save chances? Come into a number of tied games? Pitch a lot of times more then one inning?

Any explinations?

Lip

Kilroy
12-03-2002, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
...As I said a few days ago, if this comes to pass, I'll apologize in big letters...

Guess its time to break the BIG LETTERS!!
(I see that you already did...)

This trade BLOWS. No help. No improvement. Just players and $$ moving around.

Hangar18
12-03-2002, 01:27 PM
WOW, HSC1 had this trade pegged!!!
Keith Foulke to the A's for Billy Koch...

rmusacch
12-03-2002, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
With the report at Noon my time by The Sporting News radio network that the deal is done...

Let me be the first to congratulate and apologize to hsc for my harsh criticism. hsc was correct and being off only 24 hours is pretty damn good. hsc must have a wired in source.



Question for the "stat freaks". Koch had 11 wins last season. That's an ungodly amount for a closer. Any reason for this?

Did he blow a bunch of save chances? Come into a number of tied games? Pitch a lot of times more then one inning?

Any explinations?



Lip

He had six blown saves.

cheeses_h_rice
12-03-2002, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
WOW, HSC1 had this trade pegged!!!
Keith Foulke to the A's for Billy Koch...

I wonder if HSC happens to have a line on the next Big Game numbers...I'd be happy to share in any winnings, of course!

thegetupguy
12-03-2002, 05:54 PM
I called HSC on Friday morning and said "you're not going to believe what kenny did now" and she said "yeah he traded Foulke, Johnson and a minor leaguer to Oakland for Koch".

Then she came on here and posted it.

I think it is appalling the way some of you bashed her! From now on we will keep our information to ourselves! You can all find out what's going on with Frank when the press release comes out!

Shame on you crow eaters

OfficerKarkovice
12-03-2002, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by thegetupguy
I called HSC on Friday morning and said "you're not going to believe what kenny did now" and she said "yeah he traded Foulke, Johnson and a minor leaguer to Oakland for Koch".

Then she came on here and posted it.

I think it is appalling the way some of you bashed her! From now on we will keep our information to ourselves! You can all find out what's going on with Frank when the press release comes out!

Shame on you crow eaters

Hey you never heard any bashing from me...I stood by her the whole time...just so you know anytime you feel like informing me of any ongoings I will be ready and listening. :smile:

MisterB
12-03-2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch
He had six blown saves.

He got the win after five of those six. Amazing what happens with a team that can pull out late-inning victories...

p.s. the other wins - 5 tie games and 1 come-from-behind (though only 1 run behind)

nut_stock
12-03-2002, 06:13 PM
somebody on whitesox.com messageboards, supposedly the same person who had the inside info on the koch trade, said they expected Frank to sign with the O's later this week.

Dadawg_77
12-03-2002, 06:25 PM
Wow number 100. (Well it was when I began typing the post)

I think the major problem is the anonymous nature of the Internet. Anyone remember the reporter who was well respected until he reported something he found on the net about the TWA that crashed off of New York. Some people know some other people here, but nobody here knows everyone here. So how can some one put much reliability into a poster when they havenít earned it in the past. A poster needs to earn their cred which HSC did. No need to take someone questioning your post credibility as a personal attack or something along those lines.

thegetupguy, that is your log on name, but how can I really tell you are the guy who screams get up? People are and should be cautious of any rumor or news story that is reported on unreliable sites on the net. This message board happens to fall in that category.

Daver
12-03-2002, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77


thegetupguy, that is your log on name, but how can I really tell you are the guy who screams get up?

I'll go on record to tell you that he is who he says he is,and I will also tell you he is a helluva nice guy.

Your point is taken though.

hold2dibber
12-03-2002, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by nut_stock
somebody on whitesox.com messageboards, supposedly the same person who had the inside info on the koch trade, said they expected Frank to sign with the O's later this week.

I swear to God, I can't take much more of this. I think I can actually feel the ulcer beginning to tear through my stomach lining. Thanks KW!

Paulwny
12-03-2002, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I swear to God, I can't take much more of this. I think I can actually feel the ulcer beginning to tear through my stomach lining. Thanks KW!

Pepcid and Zantac are good.
Two good starting pitchers would be better.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-03-2002, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by nut_stock
somebody on whitesox.com messageboards, supposedly the same person who had the inside info on the koch trade, said they expected Frank to sign with the O's later this week.

If this were to happen, combined with the moves KW made last summer, I would consider it the surest sign Reinsdorf is aiming to get an MLB welfare check for the Sox. After a few years like that, he'll sell.

I would prefer he sell now and get it over with.

OfficerKarkovice
12-03-2002, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by nut_stock
somebody on whitesox.com messageboards, supposedly the same person who had the inside info on the koch trade, said they expected Frank to sign with the O's later this week.

It would take an incredible occurence...and I mean incredible...for me to stop caring so much about the Sox, they could trade Maggs, Burly, etc. and I would be pissed, but not abandon the team, but if Frank walks...I'm done.

baggio202
12-03-2002, 06:59 PM
i told you guys HSC is very credible...with all her friends within the sox organization and also her ties to birmingham , she probably knows more about the sox and what gonna happen next then kenny williams does...and she is a hell ofm a lot smarter than KW ...she would make a better GM than williams...but then again, so would my dog..

i would venture to say she probably is as informed on the sox dealings as any person not on the sox payroll...]


as for this trade...so typical of KW...if he wanted to move foulke because he felt he would lose him to free agency he should have made this move last year ('01)...he would have gotten koch and 2 or 3 players and probably cash for foulke...last year foulke converted 42-45 save while koch had an era of 4.80 and 8 blown saves...i dont agree with that style of GM but if youre going to operate that way...you have to learn to buy low and sell high...thats exactly what billy beane just did to us...he got foulke off a down year and traded koch after a high profile 44 save season...so beane got all the extras

until KW learns to buy low and sell high this team will keep getting a little worse each year until we end up with 90 loss seasons

Dadawg_77
12-03-2002, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
It would take an incredible occurence...and I mean incredible...for me to stop caring so much about the Sox, they could trade Maggs, Burly, etc. and I would be pissed, but not abandon the team, but if Frank walks...I'm done.

I am not sure I'll abandon the team but if he walks I might till the Sox sell or get into playoffs.

bc2k
12-03-2002, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by nut_stock
somebody on whitesox.com messageboards, supposedly the same person who had the inside info on the koch trade, said they expected Frank to sign with the O's later this week.

HSC, first off, congratulations and appreciation for sharing your accurate information with us. I would like to hear how you think this Frank situation will turn out.

hsc1
12-03-2002, 09:13 PM
well ok so i was about 9 or so hours off the time frame..... oh well shoot me....sorry.....(before i start this let me warn you my spelling sucks and im too lazy to use the spell check, actually i havent figured it out yet,but laziness is a good excuse)....anyhow, i originally came here to tell you all about the trade and to have something to discuss, when i first heard it was to be a done deal....most of my friends know i cant keep a good secret for long..lol....now i know i dont post here often enough for some of you to know me, but others i know from other boards and alot of people i know in person, having met at games, soxfest, and for dinners or a few beers at the local watering hole ect........i must say i was kinda hurt at first with some of the reactions that were posted on here....in all honesty i choose not to give up my sources because some of them being family members of team players or some of them working for the team ect. ect.. and i do not want to cause bad blood nor get anyone fired over something which was said on a message board....( i know for fact that kw and some of his office staff do frequent all sox boards, they may not post but they sure do read)......anyhow...when i was on my way home tonite i got a call on my cell phone from get up guy and he told me what was in store for me on the message boards.... i must admit when the announcement came over the radio in my office my first reaction was to come home get on the stupid computer right away and blast off with both barrels of the gun.....after talking with him on the long way home, and having a few beers with dinner i decided differently.......i was going to come on here and spout off something similar to what officer kark had said about being the first one with the inside info and news, since reading here a lot and not posting thats what i see, a click that one has to be in,in order to be heard or answered or trusted...... ( well since he already said it i guess it saves me the trouble)... another thing i was going to blast off at the mouth was question why you all wouldnt believe what another poster has to say......i have never run into that on other boards when i posted something and thought i shouldnt have run into it on here.....live and learn i guess.... anyhow... i came here in peace i leave here in peace.. no hard feelings.....i just wanted to get some of that off my chest and now that i have done so... the only thing that sucks about this trade imho is that we lost valentine.... i grew pretty attached to him over the past summer while watching him pitch in birmingham... i know his arm was sore and his shoulder too.. and he was benched in the fall games... makes me wonder why they took him in the first place knowing that.......oh and another thing.... not that this is set in stone or anything like that but dont be too surprised if the next sox to go is wearing dodger blue......go olivo i know you can do it hon.....i look foward to seeing you this season behind the plate i know you got it in you kiddo..........and thats all i got to say for now.......bye......

Jerry_Manuel
12-03-2002, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by hsc1
oh and another thing.... not that this is set in stone or anything like that but dont be too surprised if the next sox to go is wearing dodger blue.

Yeah, he's talking to his former GM in Schu, and GM in waiting Dan Evans.

:hurt

OfficerKarkovice
12-03-2002, 09:27 PM
Oh how pissed am I gonna be if Frank signs with the Dodgers...or ANY other team for that matter.

Jerry_Manuel
12-03-2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
Oh how pissed am I gonna be if Frank signs with the Dodgers...or ANY other team for that matter.

I don't have any "inside info", it was just a guess.

I'd say a real good guess at that.

Some will be mad, others will jump for joy. Its' what Williams wants though.

OfficerKarkovice
12-03-2002, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
I don't have any "inside info", it was just a guess.

I'd say a real good guess at that.

Some will be mad, others will jump for joy. Its' what Williams wants though.
I know...I agree in that it may be a pretty good guess. The only reason I think that he may not sign with the Dodgers is that it has been speculated that they will go after Kent or Floyd with the money they saved from the Hundley deal along with the fact that (before that trade) there payroll was $94,850,952. Adding $40 mil to that would be a big ticket.

idseer
12-03-2002, 09:43 PM
to hsc1

i honestly didn't see anyone really being offensive about your post. did you read any of them that way? i think since the trade didn't make any sense to most and, not really knowing you had the contacts you apparently have, there were many doubters, but i thought they were pretty respectful actually.

i really hope it doesn't discourage you from future posts. i have a feeling most people will take you more seriously from now on.

and thanks enjoyed the fireworks! :)

TornLabrum
12-03-2002, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by hsc1
well ok so i was about 9 or so hours off the time frame..... oh well shoot me....sorry.....(before i start this let me warn you my spelling sucks and im too lazy to use the spell check, actually i havent figured it out yet,but laziness is a good excuse)....anyhow, i originally came here to tell you all about the trade and to have something to discuss, when i first heard it was to be a done deal....most of my friends know i cant keep a good secret for long..lol....now i know i dont post here often enough for some of you to know me, but others i know from other boards and alot of people i know in person, having met at games, soxfest, and for dinners or a few beers at the local watering hole ect........i must say i was kinda hurt at first with some of the reactions that were posted on here....in all honesty i choose not to give up my sources because some of them being family members of team players or some of them working for the team ect. ect.. and i do not want to cause bad blood nor get anyone fired over something which was said on a message board....( i know for fact that kw and some of his office staff do frequent all sox boards, they may not post but they sure do read)......anyhow...when i was on my way home tonite i got a call on my cell phone from get up guy and he told me what was in store for me on the message boards.... i must admit when the announcement came over the radio in my office my first reaction was to come home get on the stupid computer right away and blast off with both barrels of the gun.....after talking with him on the long way home, and having a few beers with dinner i decided differently.......i was going to come on here and spout off something similar to what officer kark had said about being the first one with the inside info and news, since reading here a lot and not posting thats what i see, a click that one has to be in,in order to be heard or answered or trusted...... ( well since he already said it i guess it saves me the trouble)... another thing i was going to blast off at the mouth was question why you all wouldnt believe what another poster has to say......i have never run into that on other boards when i posted something and thought i shouldnt have run into it on here.....live and learn i guess.... anyhow... i came here in peace i leave here in peace.. no hard feelings.....i just wanted to get some of that off my chest and now that i have done so... the only thing that sucks about this trade imho is that we lost valentine.... i grew pretty attached to him over the past summer while watching him pitch in birmingham... i know his arm was sore and his shoulder too.. and he was benched in the fall games... makes me wonder why they took him in the first place knowing that.......oh and another thing.... not that this is set in stone or anything like that but dont be too surprised if the next sox to go is wearing dodger blue......go olivo i know you can do it hon.....i look foward to seeing you this season behind the plate i know you got it in you kiddo..........and thats all i got to say for now.......bye......

As I said in an earlier post, people can claim to be anything here, but all they are going by is an alias. Anyone can claim anything, but it takes proof of some sort to verify those claims. The proof came today. I guess hsc hasn't been burned by anyone on the internet claiming something and then having those claims turn out to be completely false. If so, she is probably the only one.

kermittheefrog
12-03-2002, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by thegetupguy
I called HSC on Friday morning and said "you're not going to believe what kenny did now" and she said "yeah he traded Foulke, Johnson and a minor leaguer to Oakland for Koch".

Then she came on here and posted it.

I think it is appalling the way some of you bashed her! From now on we will keep our information to ourselves! You can all find out what's going on with Frank when the press release comes out!

Shame on you crow eaters

Way to be mature buddy. "Hey look I've got information I can withold!" I'm glad I'M not in high school anymore and I'm not just talking literally.

SI1020
12-04-2002, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by thegetupguy
I called HSC on Friday morning and said "you're not going to believe what kenny did now" and she said "yeah he traded Foulke, Johnson and a minor leaguer to Oakland for Koch".

Then she came on here and posted it.

I think it is appalling the way some of you bashed her! From now on we will keep our information to ourselves! You can all find out what's going on with Frank when the press release comes out!

Shame on you crow eaters This is the third White Sox board where I came to the defense of you and HSC. I wish I knew you both better. By the way, I think we gave up too much-AGAIN. What do you think?

thegetupguy
12-04-2002, 08:17 AM
Anyone who read all the posts under this title and doesn't think people were offensive have got to be blind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not one apoligy to HSC, now that I call imature!!!!!

Don't bother wasting your time responding because this is the last time I'll ever log on here again.

For those of you though that are going to post negative things anyway...
FU

hsc1
12-04-2002, 08:26 AM
to idseer. yeah i did think that some of the guys were rather down on my post... its ok though i knew what was what......i knew something that they didnt know before hand and was able to post it before the news was out... i know thats frowned upon by some... no problem.....
kermit.. that was an imature thing to say....the news was meant to inform people on here as to what was going to happen... and then you come back and call one of the biggest sox fans alive imature... you should check yourself.......
si...i think we did ok on this trade.. one of the things that bothers me about it though is the fact we gave up on valentine....i liked the guy and he was impressive this summer down in birmingham and had showed alot of promise despite his being taken out in the fall leagues........koch will do us just fine though imho...whats to come worries me much more than this trade....i say we remove kennys dice from his hands before he loses his shirt or the farm whichever comes first.......see you on the other sites......adios.........

voodoochile
12-04-2002, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by thegetupguy
Anyone who read all the posts under this title and doesn't think people were offensive have got to be blind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not one apoligy to HSC, now that I call imature!!!!!

Don't bother wasting your time responding because this is the last time I'll ever log on here again.

For those of you though that are going to post negative things anyway...
FU

Wow! Lot's of animosity... Thanks for starting the "negative things" off with a bang. If you had truly read all the posts in this thread as you claim, you would see the apologys from the most vocal critic - LipMan.

No one was swearing at hsc. No one was making attacks against her personally or accusing her of lying. No one thought she was anything but truthful in her attempts to disseminate information. It was the "source" that was questioned, not her belief in that source nor her posting the information she received from him. Your attack is exactly the opposite - an attack on the posters themselves.

If you choose not to post here, that is of course your right, but please don't start posting general attacks against the posters on this board. People have the right to question rumors just as they have the right to post them. Anyone can make something up. I am sure hsc will receive a more open response the next time she posts a message. Proof goes a long way toward helping one's crediblity and hsc has her proof. Your defense of her and attacks on the other posters in this thread are uncalled for as she has done a fine job of defending herself.

cheeses_h_rice
12-04-2002, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by thegetupguy
Anyone who read all the posts under this title and doesn't think people were offensive have got to be blind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not one apoligy to HSC, now that I call imature!!!!!

Don't bother wasting your time responding because this is the last time I'll ever log on here again.

For those of you though that are going to post negative things anyway...
FU

Have you considered switching to decaf?

kermittheefrog
12-04-2002, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by thegetupguy
Anyone who read all the posts under this title and doesn't think people were offensive have got to be blind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not one apoligy to HSC, now that I call imature!!!!!

Don't bother wasting your time responding because this is the last time I'll ever log on here again.

For those of you though that are going to post negative things anyway...
FU

I'm glad anyone who reacts like this won't be signing back on to the message board.

To HSC: I really don't care how big of a White Sox fan he is, he came on the board and acted like a jerk and seems to have a superiority complex because he happens to know some people within the organization. It's nice of anyone who has sources within the organization to share information from them. You're a jerk if you do that and expect people to kiss your feet. Getupguy acted like people should be kissing his feet. Which actually doesn't surprise me one bit, assuming he's the real Get Up Guy, I believe I saw a fox sports report on him and they said he was a cop. There are a fair share of jerk cops like that, who feel empowered and get high off it. I guess having sources within the Sox org is another way for Getupguy to get off.

RichH55
12-04-2002, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I'm glad anyone who reacts like this won't be signing back on to the message board.

To HSC: I really don't care how big of a White Sox fan he is, he came on the board and acted like a jerk and seems to have a superiority complex because he happens to know some people within the organization. It's nice of anyone who has sources within the organization to share information from them. You're a jerk if you do that and expect people to kiss your feet. Getupguy acted like people should be kissing his feet. Which actually doesn't surprise me one bit, assuming he's the real Get Up Guy, I believe I saw a fox sports report on him and they said he was a cop. There are a fair share of jerk cops like that, who feel empowered and get high off it. I guess having sources within the Sox org is another way for Getupguy to get off.


Here we go.....

PaleHoseGeorge
12-04-2002, 07:08 PM
When is an apology not an apology? I guess we have our answer: when people are too angry to bother even reading it. I can't say many of us will miss these posters. I know I won't.

I never said a word about this rumor, but I've admonished others for using this message board as a vehicle for spreading rumors. If you have a source, name it. If you don't want to reveal your source, qualify your information with a "I believe..." or "I wouldn't be surprised..."

This is chicken**** behavior, especially for someone employed as an Illinois state trooper. Pretty lame.

RedPinStripes
12-04-2002, 07:23 PM
Someone gives inside info before the press has a clue and look how it ends up. unreal!

gosox41
12-04-2002, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by hsc1
to idseer. yeah i did think that some of the guys were rather down on my post... its ok though i knew what was what......i knew something that they didnt know before hand and was able to post it before the news was out... i know thats frowned upon by some... no problem.....
kermit.. that was an imature thing to say....the news was meant to inform people on here as to what was going to happen... and then you come back and call one of the biggest sox fans alive imature... you should check yourself.......
si...i think we did ok on this trade.. one of the things that bothers me about it though is the fact we gave up on valentine....i liked the guy and he was impressive this summer down in birmingham and had showed alot of promise despite his being taken out in the fall leagues........koch will do us just fine though imho...whats to come worries me much more than this trade....i say we remove kennys dice from his hands before he loses his shirt or the farm whichever comes first.......see you on the other sites......adios.........

Just a quick question. What are the other popular White Sox web sites where the fans can interact? I know of this one and the whitesox.com site. Thanks for the help.

Bob

Daver
12-04-2002, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Just a quick question. What are the other popular White Sox web sites where the fans can interact? I know of this one and the whitesox.com site. Thanks for the help.

Bob

You can find a lot of information here. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/links.php?funktion=bereich&category=2)

OfficerKarkovice
12-04-2002, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Just a quick question. What are the other popular White Sox web sites where the fans can interact? I know of this one and the whitesox.com site. Thanks for the help.

Bob

Besides simply www.whitesox.com ...hsc1 was referring to www.soxnet.net and it's message boards at www.soxtalk.com

bc2k
12-04-2002, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by thegetupguy
Anyone who read all the posts under this title and doesn't think people were offensive have got to be blind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not one apoligy to HSC, now that I call imature!!!!!

Don't bother wasting your time responding because this is the last time I'll ever log on here again.

For those of you though that are going to post negative things anyway...
FU

OH! Looks like the getupguy just got up and left. At least the bacon smell is gone. Daver, hellava guy?

voodoochile
12-04-2002, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
OH! Looks like the getupguy just got up and left. At least the bacon smell is gone. Daver, hellava guy?

While I agree that TGUG didn't exactly exhibit tact in his replys in this thread, the bacon comment was uncalled for, IMO. You don't like cops? Don't call one the next time you get mugged, your house gets robbed or your sister gets slapped around by her "boyfriend".

Aren't the days of calling cops pigs behind us yet? Maybe we should ask the families of every cop who died in NY last September...

Daver
12-04-2002, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
OH! Looks like the getupguy just got up and left. At least the bacon smell is gone. Daver, hellava guy?

I am not a cop,but I carry a gun and a badge,and I have a problem with pig stereotype.

Vsahajpal
12-04-2002, 11:36 PM
Who's going to Los Angeles?

What the hell is a getupguy? Is that like the get back coach?

Fantastic stuff, hsc.

bc2k
12-04-2002, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


While I agree that TGUG didn't exactly exhibit tact in his replys in this thread, the bacon comment was uncalled for, IMO. You don't like cops? Don't call one the next time you get mugged, your house gets robbed or your sister gets slapped around by her "boyfriend".

Aren't the days of calling cops pigs behind us yet? Maybe we should ask the families of every cop who died in NY last September...


Originally posted by daver


I am not a cop,but I carry a gun and a badge,and I have a problem with pig stereotype.

Woah, don't get this elitist attitude about cops to a guy that comes from a family of Chicago cops and firemen.

voodoochile
12-05-2002, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
Woah, don't get this elitist attitude about cops to a guy that comes from a family of Chicago cops and firemen.

Why would someone from a family of cops and firenmen every use that reference even in joking?

It's not Daver and me who need to "check ourselves"...

mrwag
12-05-2002, 08:29 AM
I think this thread needs to get moved to the Parking Lot ...

voodoochile
12-05-2002, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by mrwag
I think this thread needs to get moved to the Parking Lot ...

It would take several new threads to split this one up and many of them would be only a post or two long. I figure it is best to just let it stay long and rambling, but maybe another mod disagrees and wants to tackle the project...

moochpuppy
12-05-2002, 10:13 AM
I find it rather funny that all this bickering is in a thread with ESPN in the title.

HawkDJ
12-05-2002, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by moochpuppy
I find it rather funny that all this bickering is in a thread with ESPN in the title.

I find it funny this was all started by me. Maybe you should change the title of this thread to something more appropriate?

RedPinStripes
12-05-2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
OH! Looks like the getupguy just got up and left. At least the bacon smell is gone. Daver, hellava guy?

I doubt you'd want to say that to his face. Weather you like the get up guy or not, he bleeds back and silver and is VERY protective of his friends. If everyone wants to judge him from angry posts and i can see why he was pissed. Yeah, he went a little overboard, but Dan doesnt hold back as you can see and isnt a regular on message boards like me or others so he really dont give a **** what anyone thinks.

If you knew him you'd know he's a hell of a guy if anyone cares.

hsc1
12-05-2002, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I'm glad anyone who reacts like this won't be signing back on to the message board.

To HSC: I really don't care how big of a White Sox fan he is, he came on the board and acted like a jerk and seems to have a superiority complex because he happens to know some people within the organization. It's nice of anyone who has sources within the organization to share information from them. You're a jerk if you do that and expect people to kiss your feet. Getupguy acted like people should be kissing his feet. Which actually doesn't surprise me one bit, assuming he's the real Get Up Guy, I believe I saw a fox sports report on him and they said he was a cop. There are a fair share of jerk cops like that, who feel empowered and get high off it. I guess having sources within the Sox org is another way for Getupguy to get off.

i dont expect you to care about how big a fan anyone is... i dont call it acting it acting like a jerk when a friend comes out to your defense and lets those who are dissing on you know that it is not a nice thing to do....ya know, like i said i only came on here to let everyone know the heads up... who gives a flying rats a$$ where my info came from.... i knew it to be true and posted it, had i thought that there was not one bit of validity to it i wouldnt have posted it in the first place... i dont say much around here, but when i do i have something to say i have always been honest about it......i dont want anyone to kiss my feet or my a$$ for info.. i pass it along because i can and figured that diehard fans as you all claim to be, would want to know whats going on before the average joe schmoe does...i would have just prefered you say thanks for the heads up and went on your merry way instead of questioning how i came to know it or say i have no credibility because i was a few hours off the deadline......i know for fact that gug does many things for people and does not expect any feet or butt smooching out of it ...he does it becasue he can help out and thats just in his nature......hes a good guy..he has tailgate parties at games and yes players families are there, he invites everyone from most of the boards to these so they can have a chance to meet the families and such, he pays for and cooks all the food which is consumed and asks nothing in return... he gets autographs for everyones kids when asked.. and guess what asks nothing in return. he has gotten tickets for people in great behind the plate seats and asks for nothing in return...for you to bash on him or cops for that matter, because he is one or to say that hes got a power trip because he knows people in the orginization is just rude and downright childish......his comments here were in my defense .. if you have problems with what he said then take it up with me ok...if i had just kept quiet about this thing in the first place then none of this would have happened.....of course then you all would have found out about it on tuesday instead of having a few days to mull it over..........

hsc1
12-05-2002, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
When is an apology not an apology? I guess we have our answer: when people are too angry to bother even reading it. I can't say many of us will miss these posters. I know I won't.

I never said a word about this rumor, but I've admonished others for using this message board as a vehicle for spreading rumors. If you have a source, name it. If you don't want to reveal your source, qualify your information with a "I believe..." or "I wouldn't be surprised..."

This is chicken**** behavior, especially for someone employed as an Illinois state trooper. Pretty lame.

well george an apology usually consists of the words " i'm, and sorry" most commonly put together to form a short sentence.....and is also followed by some type of bite taken out of ones pride, just long enough to admit their wrong doings......i did not use this message board to spred any type of rumor... i posted what i knew for fact to be true....i should not have to name any source, that violates a trust, nor would i even consider naming names ......and the use of i believe or i wouldnt be surprised indicates an attempt at a rumor dont you think?......i call it like i see it or hear it.....and i wouldnt have posted it unless i knew it to be fact.......you dont have to worry though, i wont be using your precious message boards for any furture news and notes.. since im not in the click of first hand knowlege around here i dont feel i need to share with you who are already in the know of things.......

RedPinStripes
12-05-2002, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
You don't like cops? Don't call one the next time you get mugged, your house gets robbed or your sister gets slapped around by her "boyfriend".

Aren't the days of calling cops pigs behind us yet? Maybe we should ask the families of every cop who died in NY last September...

So true LOL! If people really hate cops, do they love the criminals ?

RichH55
12-05-2002, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
So true LOL! If people really hate cops, do they love the criminals ?

The two really aren't mutually exclusive concepts.......

idseer
12-05-2002, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by hsc1
well george an apology usually consists of the words " i'm, and sorry" most commonly put together to form a short sentence.....and is also followed by some type of bite taken out of ones pride, just long enough to admit their wrong doings......i did not use this message board to spred any type of rumor... i posted what i knew for fact to be true....i should not have to name any source, that violates a trust, nor would i even consider naming names ......and the use of i believe or i wouldnt be surprised indicates an attempt at a rumor dont you think?......i call it like i see it or hear it.....and i wouldnt have posted it unless i knew it to be fact.......you dont have to worry though, i wont be using your precious message boards for any furture news and notes.. since im not in the click of first hand knowlege around here i dont feel i need to share with you who are already in the know of things.......

hsc, i went back and reread all the posts relative to your trade post, and really i saw lip's comments of course and he did apologize shortly after it came out as fact (tho it seemed a small apology compared to the large posts he made). two others made questionable remarks that i guess you could say may have been worthy of apologies. but they weren't really nasty.
things got nasty when, in fact, gug made his post. maybe you understand his reason for it, and maybe he's all the good things you say about him ... but his post was still way out of proportion to what went down. i don't think any of it would have happened without his post. worst case you'd have felt 2 guys should have apologized and didn't. no big deal here.
i'd hate to see you hold back info you'd normally share now simply in defense of your friend. he did bring that on himself.

btw i agree that you didn't need to mention ANY source. can't imagine where THIS law came from. people either learn to depend on your info or not.
please reconsider.

RedPinStripes
12-05-2002, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
The two really aren't mutually exclusive concepts.......

What the hell does that have to do with anything? It's a joke.

TornLabrum
12-05-2002, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by idseer
hsc, i went back and reread all the posts relative to your trade post, and really i saw lip's comments of course and he did apologize shortly after it came out as fact (tho it seemed a small apology compared to the large posts he made). two others made questionable remarks that i guess you could say may have been worthy of apologies. but they weren't really nasty.
things got nasty when, in fact, gug made his post. maybe you understand his reason for it, and maybe he's all the good things you say about him ... but his post was still way out of proportion to what went down. i don't think any of it would have happened without his post. worst case you'd have felt 2 guys should have apologized and didn't. no big deal here.
i'd hate to see you hold back info you'd normally share now simply in defense of your friend. he did bring that on himself.

btw i agree that you didn't need to mention ANY source. can't imagine where THIS law came from. people either learn to depend on your info or not.
please reconsider.

Let me second that. WSI fans are die-hards to the core.

The thing that seems to be getting lost in all of this, hsc, is that anyone can claim to have factual information because of the anonymous nature of the internet. People are bound to be skeptical at first.

Another thing that has gotten lost is that hsc did come here on Monday and say the trade would be announced on Tuesday. That is something that could raise a red flag, but there seemed to be no reaction to that, only to the fact that the deal didn't come off on Monday.

People were far too quick to be judgmental on both sides. Gug is a good guy. (I met him at SoxFest a couple of years ago when he joined the Windy City Sox Fans while I was working their booth.) However, in his zeal to defend a friend, he went as much over the top as the skeptics did. Again, we all need to remember that this is a very anonymous medium. We can't see each other (unless we arrange to meet in the "real world"), and newcomers who make claims are naturally viewed with skepticism.

To those who wanted hsc to give up her sources: that's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. Not long ago I posted something here that a source told me about a Sox coach. A member of this coach's family practically demanded by IM that I reveal the name of this person. No way would I ever do that.

It turns out hsc's source was correct. Instead of arguing about all of this, we should be thanking hsc!

So, thanks for the info., hsc. You are who and what you claimed to be. But please understand why people would be skeptical!

chisox06
12-05-2002, 07:50 PM
Frank to the Expos! The deal will take place on Friday but its done trust me

Hey everyone just sit down and relax :gulp:

DSpivack
12-05-2002, 08:51 PM
New WSI member here...How about we stop talking about the message board itself and talk about the White Sox themselves? Or is that just too depressing? Trying to find out any information I can when I am down here in college in Georgia, with Braves complaining Glavine is gone, and Maddux might be, as well. Ha ha to them.

Adios,

Dan Spivack

Daver
12-05-2002, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by DSpivack
New WSI member here...How about we stop talking about the message board itself and talk about the White Sox themselves? Or is that just too depressing? Trying to find out any information I can when I am down here in college in Georgia, with Braves complaining Glavine is gone, and Maddux might be, as well. Ha ha to them.

Adios,

Dan Spivack

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

Jerry_Manuel
12-05-2002, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by daver
Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

Did you guys set up an auto response system? :D:

TornLabrum
12-05-2002, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by DSpivack
New WSI member here...How about we stop talking about the message board itself and talk about the White Sox themselves? Or is that just too depressing? Trying to find out any information I can when I am down here in college in Georgia, with Braves complaining Glavine is gone, and Maddux might be, as well. Ha ha to them.

Adios,

Dan Spivack

Welcome, Dan. I don't know how much experience you've had with message boards like this, but trust me, there is always going to be some kind of talk back and forth about the opinions expressed, etc. I say this from experience here, on the AOL Sox message boads, and on the White Sox email list.

When people interact over a period of time, they get to know each other and the boards begin to take on the personalities of the contributors. The three groups I'm involved with all have distinct differences, and believe it or not, this is one of the more on-topic groups I've seen.

TornLabrum
12-05-2002, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by chisox06
Frank to the Expos! The deal will take place on Friday but its done trust me

Hey everyone just sit down and relax :gulp:

Okay, I know what teal means, but what does red mean?

PaleHoseGeorge
12-05-2002, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by hsc1
well george an apology usually consists of the words " i'm, and sorry" most commonly put together to form a short sentence.....and is also followed by some type of bite taken out of ones pride, just long enough to admit their wrong doings......i did not use this message board to spred any type of rumor... i posted what i knew for fact to be true....i should not have to name any source, that violates a trust, nor would i even consider naming names ......and the use of i believe or i wouldnt be surprised indicates an attempt at a rumor dont you think?......i call it like i see it or hear it.....and i wouldnt have posted it unless i knew it to be fact.......you dont have to worry though, i wont be using your precious message boards for any furture news and notes.. since im not in the click of first hand knowlege around here i dont feel i need to share with you who are already in the know of things.......

Such nonsense.

First, you DID receive an apology, whether you're big enough to admit it or not. I'm big on enforcing personal responsibility, and anyone who jumped on you and didn't offer an apology is probably in for more trouble themselves.

Second, like everyone else, you are not entitled to spread rumors here. You may honestly think you're information is 100 percent true, but in an anonymous forum like this, to permit anyone to spread whatever they wish--without foundation--is totally beyond the pale.

Please note I did not insist you reveal sources. To the contrary, I asked you to qualify those stories with "I believe..." or "I wouldn't be surprised..." Since you already have a record for being right in these matters, you're certainly welcome to present your previous track record for being right. This is more than fair.

Instead, what I'm reading from you above is a sense of entitlement to come here and behave in a manner I wouldn't permit from others. And that, HSC, is bull**** that just ain't gonna down here.

If you can't abide, don't post. Nobody is holding a gun to your head--and I mostly certainly am not swayed by your silly threat.

guillen4life13
12-05-2002, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Let me second that. WSI fans are die-hards to the core.

The thing that seems to be getting lost in all of this, hsc, is that anyone can claim to have factual information because of the anonymous nature of the internet. People are bound to be skeptical at first.

Another thing that has gotten lost is that hsc did come here on Monday and say the trade would be announced on Tuesday. That is something that could raise a red flag, but there seemed to be no reaction to that, only to the fact that the deal didn't come off on Monday.

People were far too quick to be judgmental on both sides. Gug is a good guy. (I met him at SoxFest a couple of years ago when he joined the Windy City Sox Fans while I was working their booth.) However, in his zeal to defend a friend, he went as much over the top as the skeptics did. Again, we all need to remember that this is a very anonymous medium. We can't see each other (unless we arrange to meet in the "real world"), and newcomers who make claims are naturally viewed with skepticism.

To those who wanted hsc to give up her sources: that's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. Not long ago I posted something here that a source told me about a Sox coach. A member of this coach's family practically demanded by IM that I reveal the name of this person. No way would I ever do that.

It turns out hsc's source was correct. Instead of arguing about all of this, we should be thanking hsc!

So, thanks for the info., hsc. You are who and what you claimed to be. But please understand why people would be skeptical!

Well said. I think that a great amount of people on this board have become a little to angry (or that is what it seems to me).

Chill out! :gulp:

DSpivack
12-05-2002, 11:07 PM
Though the free agent season certainly is not over, it is highly unlikely KW will go out and get anyone major, which leads to a question:
Based on the roster currently, how do you think the White Sox will do in '03?

I cannot see them as consistent winning team. Their offense is above average to good, with Konerko, Mags, Lee, and a hopefully rejuvenated Big Hurt. Their bullpen, even with this trade that I don't particularly like, still is not bad, with Koch, Marte, Osuna, and others. Buehrle is definetely one of the best pitchers in the AL now. But can Garland, Wright, Biddle and Rauch carry the rest of the rotation? They all have to improbe amazingly for this to happen. Hopefully it does, but I highly doubt it.

81 Wins seems very likely again, and really isn't all that horrible, but is just boring and dissapointing again. Which is why KW must go out and get starting pitching, which he probably won't, and which Reinsdorf wouldn't pay for, anyway. Oh well. My grumblings tonight.

All I can say now is Go Illini.

ma-gaga
12-05-2002, 11:10 PM
Without going through everything. It seems to me that Lipman made a couple of caustic statements, the worst was something like, 'if you were a real reporter, you'd be fired by now.'

Then, sure enough the trade came through. Lip apologized, and the GUG either missed it, or didn't care or find it sincere enough, and blasted Lipman and everyone else who gave HSC crap.

Personally I like it when someone knows a little more about the WSox and comes here and states an early trade a day (or two) before it actually happens. I agree, senseless, baseless rumors (ie. J.Paul for Vlad) are pointless and have no place here. However, good ideas for improving the team should be welcomed at all times.

kermittheefrog
12-05-2002, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by DSpivack
New WSI member here...How about we stop talking about the message board itself and talk about the White Sox themselves? Or is that just too depressing? Trying to find out any information I can when I am down here in college in Georgia, with Braves complaining Glavine is gone, and Maddux might be, as well. Ha ha to them.

Adios,

Dan Spivack

WELCOME DAN! This is none other than Ritchie. This is really a fun board so I wouldn't worry about the argument.

voodoochile
12-06-2002, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Well said. I think that a great amount of people on this board have become a little to angry (or that is what it seems to me).

Chill out! :gulp:

It is always thus in the off-season where people disagree about what the team needs are and what the priorities should be. There are also the disagreements about whether a given trade was good or bad and whether the team overpaid or not. During the season everyone is united in their desire to see the Sox win and their anger when they lose. This time of year there is nothing to distract us and unlike last year, the fans don't even have a fun Bears season to talk about...

A Twins Fan
12-06-2002, 02:02 PM
think some of you are missing the larger point here...namely that together you have all created a sterling example of human nature who's depth ranges from enlightened rationalizations to 2nd grade name calling.

You should understand that this post has been read and linked by many people -- the site that I was made aware of your Koch-Foulke soiree describes it as having it all: "dejection, suspense, damnation and redemption. It's long, but if you're into angst and discord (and who amongst us isn't when it comes to the White Sox), click away." (I won't name the exact site so as not to subject the webmaster to needless flaming email...and I think that all of you seem to be above that sort of thing anyway.)

I would highly recommend that if you have any friends or family with even the barest understandings of baseball (explain the trade outcome beforehand), direct them to this site and have them read it. It provides a socialogical insight and nostalgia that is difficult to obtain without travelling back to high school or the like.

This thread is the ultimate guilty pleasure. It's like watching a soap opera or reading a bad romance novel, except part of the excitement is that you know how it is going to end.

For all of these reasons, I say, "Thank you, White Sox Interactive community." You all deserve to take a bow.

>>>Dan

ps -- Insert predictable "Twins fan" joke here.

OfficerKarkovice
12-06-2002, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by A Twins Fan
think some of you are missing the larger point here...namely that together you have all created a sterling example of human nature who's depth ranges from enlightened rationalizations to 2nd grade name calling.

You should understand that this post has been read and linked by many people -- the site that I was made aware of your Koch-Foulke soiree describes it as having it all: "dejection, suspense, damnation and redemption. It's long, but if you're into angst and discord (and who amongst us isn't when it comes to the White Sox), click away." (I won't name the exact site so as not to subject the webmaster to needless flaming email...and I think that all of you seem to be above that sort of thing anyway.)

I would highly recommend that if you have any friends or family with even the barest understandings of baseball (explain the trade outcome beforehand), direct them to this site and have them read it. It provides a socialogical insight and nostalgia that is difficult to obtain without travelling back to high school or the like.

This thread is the ultimate guilty pleasure. It's like watching a soap opera or reading a bad romance novel, except part of the excitement is that you know how it is going to end.

For all of these reasons, I say, "Thank you, White Sox Interactive community." You all deserve to take a bow.

>>>Dan

ps -- Insert predictable "Twins fan" joke here.

Wow...impressive. But my head hurts now :D:

RichH55
12-06-2002, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by A Twins Fan
think some of you are missing the larger point here...namely that together you have all created a sterling example of human nature who's depth ranges from enlightened rationalizations to 2nd grade name calling.

You should understand that this post has been read and linked by many people -- the site that I was made aware of your Koch-Foulke soiree describes it as having it all: "dejection, suspense, damnation and redemption. It's long, but if you're into angst and discord (and who amongst us isn't when it comes to the White Sox), click away." (I won't name the exact site so as not to subject the webmaster to needless flaming email...and I think that all of you seem to be above that sort of thing anyway.)

I would highly recommend that if you have any friends or family with even the barest understandings of baseball (explain the trade outcome beforehand), direct them to this site and have them read it. It provides a socialogical insight and nostalgia that is difficult to obtain without travelling back to high school or the like.

This thread is the ultimate guilty pleasure. It's like watching a soap opera or reading a bad romance novel, except part of the excitement is that you know how it is going to end.

For all of these reasons, I say, "Thank you, White Sox Interactive community." You all deserve to take a bow.

>>>Dan

ps -- Insert predictable "Twins fan" joke here.


A damn fine first post

Cheryl
12-06-2002, 02:37 PM
Hi Dan! Welcome to WSI!

[Ohmigawd, guys--we've got sociologists studying us! Isn't that exciting?]

Paulwny
12-06-2002, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl


[Ohmigawd, guys--we've got sociologists studying us! Isn't that exciting?]

I'm starting to feel like a white lab rat.

duke of dorwood
12-06-2002, 02:51 PM
I thought you were Whitey Herzog

doublem23
12-06-2002, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by A Twins Fan
think some of you are missing the larger point here...namely that together you have all created a sterling example of human nature who's depth ranges from enlightened rationalizations to 2nd grade name calling.

You should understand that this post has been read and linked by many people -- the site that I was made aware of your Koch-Foulke soiree describes it as having it all: "dejection, suspense, damnation and redemption. It's long, but if you're into angst and discord (and who amongst us isn't when it comes to the White Sox), click away." (I won't name the exact site so as not to subject the webmaster to needless flaming email...and I think that all of you seem to be above that sort of thing anyway.)

I would highly recommend that if you have any friends or family with even the barest understandings of baseball (explain the trade outcome beforehand), direct them to this site and have them read it. It provides a socialogical insight and nostalgia that is difficult to obtain without travelling back to high school or the like.

This thread is the ultimate guilty pleasure. It's like watching a soap opera or reading a bad romance novel, except part of the excitement is that you know how it is going to end.

For all of these reasons, I say, "Thank you, White Sox Interactive community." You all deserve to take a bow.

>>>Dan

ps -- Insert predictable "Twins fan" joke here.

I can't help but get the feeling that we've been just a tad insulted, though...

Oh well. :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

HawkDJ
12-06-2002, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I can't help but get the feeling that we've been just a tad insulted, though...

Oh well. :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

Once again I have to state how amusing this is that it was all starting by Me saying the Sox aren't going after anybody.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-06-2002, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by A Twins Fan
....You should understand that this post has been read and linked by many people -- the site that I was made aware of your Koch-Foulke soiree describes it as having it all: "dejection, suspense, damnation and redemption. It's long, but if you're into angst and discord (and who amongst us isn't when it comes to the White Sox), click away." (I won't name the exact site so as not to subject the webmaster to needless flaming email...and I think that all of you seem to be above that sort of thing anyway.)


Eureka! I have found it! Lafayette, we are here!

The psuedo-intellectuals at TwinsGeek.com are the ones who linked to this thread. You can see for yourself here (http://twinstakes.bonnes.com/) .

It's actually a nice site; I wouldn't give them trouble. It's far superior to the garbage that usually passes for a "baseball fan site." And I agree with their webmaster. You have to be a bit of a geek to run a site like this, and it is definitely kinda sad. Just ask Mrs. PHG.

:gulp:

TornLabrum
12-06-2002, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by A Twins Fan
think some of you are missing the larger point here...namely that together you have all created a sterling example of human nature who's depth ranges from enlightened rationalizations to 2nd grade name calling.

You should understand that this post has been read and linked by many people -- the site that I was made aware of your Koch-Foulke soiree describes it as having it all: "dejection, suspense, damnation and redemption. It's long, but if you're into angst and discord (and who amongst us isn't when it comes to the White Sox), click away." (I won't name the exact site so as not to subject the webmaster to needless flaming email...and I think that all of you seem to be above that sort of thing anyway.)

I would highly recommend that if you have any friends or family with even the barest understandings of baseball (explain the trade outcome beforehand), direct them to this site and have them read it. It provides a socialogical insight and nostalgia that is difficult to obtain without travelling back to high school or the like.

This thread is the ultimate guilty pleasure. It's like watching a soap opera or reading a bad romance novel, except part of the excitement is that you know how it is going to end.

For all of these reasons, I say, "Thank you, White Sox Interactive community." You all deserve to take a bow.

>>>Dan

ps -- Insert predictable "Twins fan" joke here.

Oh, yeah?

Daver
12-06-2002, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by HawkDJ2k2
Once again I have to state how amusing this is that it was all starting by Me saying the Sox aren't going after anybody.

So this is all your fault.











.






:)

Lip Man 1
12-06-2002, 08:34 PM
Not trying to reopen wounds but I suddenly remembered something that was posted earlier on this thread.

I went back and found it, it is post #101...

"Somebody on whitesox.com messageboards, supposedly the same person who had the inside info on the Koch trade, said they expected Frank to sign with the O's later this week...."

Any thoughts?

Lip

RedPinStripes
12-06-2002, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Not trying to reopen wounds but I suddenly remembered something that was posted earlier on this thread.

I went back and found it, it is post #101...

"Somebody on whitesox.com messageboards, supposedly the same person who had the inside info on the Koch trade, said they expected Frank to sign with the O's later this week...."

Any thoughts?

Lip

And that just had to be added in here huh?

TornLabrum
12-06-2002, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Not trying to reopen wounds but I suddenly remembered something that was posted earlier on this thread.

I went back and found it, it is post #101...

"Somebody on whitesox.com messageboards, supposedly the same person who had the inside info on the Koch trade, said they expected Frank to sign with the O's later this week...."

Any thoughts?

Lip

Hey Lip! If you don't want to reopen old wounds, why are you carrying that scalpal? :D:

Lip Man 1
12-06-2002, 09:07 PM
Gang:

My point was simply to show how dangerous dealing in "specifics" are, especially if you are not directly involved in the process.

You always give yourself some "wiggle room," and you give yourself an out by stating something like "someone who works in the Sox marketing department told me..." or "a friend who works in the clean up crew said they were passing by Kenny Williams' office and heard..."

This way you get the rumor out but don't leave yourself open to take a beating (deserved or not) and you don't compromise your source.

Lip

RedPinStripes
12-06-2002, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Gang:

My point was simply to show how dangerous dealing in "specifics" are, especially if you are not directly involved in the process.

You always give yourself some "wiggle room," and you give yourself an out by stating something like "someone who works in the Sox marketing department told me..." or "a friend who works in the clean up crew said they were passing by Kenny Williams' office and heard..."

This way you get the rumor out but don't leave yourself open to take a beating (deserved or not) and you don't compromise your source.

Lip

Until there were vulgar posts, what was the reason to bash since the "rumor" was true? What does it matter? Everyone got an early tip on the trade before the press had a clue.

Lip Man 1
12-06-2002, 09:24 PM
Red:

As you know their were some vulgar posts (get up guy) attacking the board and this site.

Some folks also expressed sincere regret that HSC was seriously considering leaving this site. I understand that, I was guilty of attacking her and apologized for it.

But to be totally fair if HSC is to be given credit for tipping us off on the Koch / Foulke deal (and deservedly so) shouldn't something also be said about the Thomas report? (I assuming they came from the same source...)

Just wondering...

Lip

FarWestChicago
12-06-2002, 09:28 PM
Give it a rest, Lip. No need to keep it going.

Lip Man 1
12-06-2002, 09:31 PM
West:

OK... I was just trying to be fair.

Lip

FarWestChicago
12-06-2002, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
OK... Thank you.

RedPinStripes
12-06-2002, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Red:

As you know their were some vulgar posts (get up guy) attacking the board and this site.

Some folks also expressed sincere regret that HSC was seriously considering leaving this site. I understand that, I was guilty of attacking her and apologized for it.

But to be totally fair if HSC is to be given credit for tipping us off on the Koch / Foulke deal (and deservedly so) shouldn't something also be said about the Thomas report? (I assuming they came from the same source...)

Just wondering...

Lip

I cant back the Thomas deal. The Suntimes was reporting thomas was talking to the O's, but never said he was expected to sign. I dont know where the thomas report came from. She never said it was for sure though unlike the Foulke trade.

Giving up a source gets people in trouble with the white sox. A few friends of mine who are season ticket holders and know some of the players or family let some things leak out, and when it's seen on a message board and someone gives up thier source, there are emails sent or phone calls that dont show much appreciation for putting info out in public before the press knows about it. I tell a few people in private when i hear something, but i never put it in public. I knew Schu was quitting a week before it was announced. I never said anything because i didnt need anything happening to radio station i was running at the time or the person who told me about it.

I'm sure you've dealt with that being a reporter.

RedPinStripes
12-06-2002, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Give it a rest, Lip. No need to keep it going.

Oops . didnt see your post as i kept it going. :)

FarWestChicago
12-06-2002, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Oops . didnt see your post as i kept it going. :) You've seen it now. Not that I expect you to behave. :D:

RedPinStripes
12-06-2002, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
You've seen it now. Not that I expect you to behave. :D:

I was just getting warmed up too! After a long day of aggravation, i miss arguing with bmr. he was too easy. lol

Lip Man 1
12-06-2002, 10:04 PM
Red:

What station were you running? What are you doing now and how long have you been in the media business?

Lip

RedPinStripes
12-06-2002, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Red:

What station were you running? What are you doing now and how long have you been in the media business?

Lip

It's not media. it's pirate radio garbage on the internet. :D:

the old one used to be all over this site. email me i'll fill ya in.

CredeFan24@attbi.com

Jjav829
12-07-2002, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
Without going through everything. It seems to me that Lipman made a couple of caustic statements, the worst was something like, 'if you were a real reporter, you'd be fired by now.'

Then, sure enough the trade came through. Lip apologized, and the GUG either missed it, or didn't care or find it sincere enough, and blasted Lipman and everyone else who gave HSC crap.

Personally I like it when someone knows a little more about the WSox and comes here and states an early trade a day (or two) before it actually happens. I agree, senseless, baseless rumors (ie. J.Paul for Vlad) are pointless and have no place here. However, good ideas for improving the team should be welcomed at all times.

Let me chime in here. I agree with ma-gaga here. I like hearing rumors before a trade happens. I am a hot stove person. That said there are plenty of stupid rumors that circulate that have little to no truth, so you have to have some way to trust the source. Personally, I believe rumors that I read here a hell of a lot more than something I read on an ESPN board. Granted that most members don't really post new rumors here, just things reported by others in the newspapers, etc. But If I see a new rumor posted here by a regular member I am going to believe they have some motivation to post it unlike an ESPN board poster who just makes up some rumor. I'll admit I didn't fully believe hsc when she posted the rumor, but I also believe that she has earned some credibility as a poster, so it's not like she would go around posting a made up rumor just to get her kicks. Keep in mind here we are talking about a board here where we have serious Sox fans, not trolls going around spreading rumors that they come up with themselves.

She did not have to come here and post about the Koch deal. Furthermore she did not have to tell anyone about it and could have kept it to herself. But she chose to go to all of the Sox boards that she frequently visits and inform the Sox fans of what she knew. If you didn't want to believe what she said, you didn't have to. Like I said before, I didn't believe her, but I figured that she has to have some motivation to post what she heard, so I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But to come on here with this crap of "what is your source" blah blah blah? Whats the point? So you're trying to show how you are so great because your "in the media" and because she isn't so you obviously know more than her? Give me a break.

TornLabrum
12-07-2002, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Let me chime in here. I agree with ma-gaga here. I like hearing rumors before a trade happens. I am a hot stove person. That said there are plenty of stupid rumors that circulate that have little to no truth, so you have to have some way to trust the source. Personally, I believe rumors that I read here a hell of a lot more than something I read on an ESPN board. Granted that most members don't really post new rumors here, just things reported by others in the newspapers, etc. But If I see a new rumor posted here by a regular member I am going to believe they have some motivation to post it unlike an ESPN board poster who just makes up some rumor. I'll admit I didn't fully believe hsc when she posted the rumor, but I also believe that she has earned some credibility as a poster, so it's not like she would go around posting a made up rumor just to get her kicks. Keep in mind here we are talking about a board here where we have serious Sox fans, not trolls going around spreading rumors that they come up with themselves.

She did not have to come here and post about the Koch deal. Furthermore she did not have to tell anyone about it and could have kept it to herself. But she chose to go to all of the Sox boards that she frequently visits and inform the Sox fans of what she knew. If you didn't want to believe what she said, you didn't have to. Like I said before, I didn't believe her, but I figured that she has to have some motivation to post what she heard, so I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But to come on here with this crap of "what is your source" blah blah blah? Whats the point? So you're trying to show how you are so great because your "in the media" and because she isn't so you obviously know more than her? Give me a break.

This is exactly the kind of thing I hate to see on a board, and it happens when people go over the top with their comments. The problem is that hsc introductory post was the Koch story. No one knew her from Adam, and as far as I remember, the one person to vouch for her was someone claiming to be the "get up guy." No one had any way of knowing if either of them were who they were claiming to be except for their own testimony.

It is not unknown for people to make things up on the internet. I used to be an IRCop on an IRC network where the guy who basically ran things fell hook, line, and sinker for some clown who claimed that he was a bigshot for Netscape. He wasn't, as most of us had guessed. But who could tell for sure, except for the holes some of us found in his story.

This is the point I've been trying to make all along. We can only tell whether someone is who they claim to be by letting events pass. I found it fun speculating on the possibility of the Foulke-for-Koch trade. I kept in the back of my mind that the rumor might be one made up out of whole cloth, but that events would play things out.

What happened was that people were too quick to jump all over hsc when Monday passed, and a lot of crow had to be eaten less than 24 hours later.

I'd like to give some advice as one who has been in this world for over half a century and as one who has been using the internet for going on a decade. It's better to let events take shape and if things don't seem to be as a person claims, hold off jumping on them. If they are making things up, they won't come back anyway. If they aren't, then you won't have to eat your words if things get postponed a bit as they did this week.

I just hope hsc is around to read the support she's been getting. And I hope she lets gug know we're not all quick to jump all over anyone who makes a claim.

On the other hand, I hope hsc is also around to read this: If someone jumps all over you, that's just the way of the internet. People are a whole lot braver here than they are in real life. (I know because I sure am!) It is silly to let a few negative comments lead to your saying, "That's the last time I'll ever post something I know."

There are always people who won't believe things until they see them. They're called skeptics. I teach science, and one of the things I teach is to approach all claims with a healthy dose of skepticism. Leaving in a snit isn't the way to deal with it. You've established credibility. Feel free to post all you want within board guidelines.

And no, we won't ask for your sources.

And Lip has already admitted that was a mistake, folks, so why don't we drop that issue, too!

hold2dibber
12-07-2002, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
This is exactly the kind of thing I hate to see on a board, and it happens when people go over the top with their comments. The problem is that hsc introductory post was the Koch story. No one knew her from Adam, and as far as I remember, the one person to vouch for her was someone claiming to be the "get up guy." No one had any way of knowing if either of them were who they were claiming to be except for their own testimony.

It is not unknown for people to make things up on the internet. I used to be an IRCop on an IRC network where the guy who basically ran things fell hook, line, and sinker for some clown who claimed that he was a bigshot for Netscape. He wasn't, as most of us had guessed. But who could tell for sure, except for the holes some of us found in his story.

This is the point I've been trying to make all along. We can only tell whether someone is who they claim to be by letting events pass. I found it fun speculating on the possibility of the Foulke-for-Koch trade. I kept in the back of my mind that the rumor might be one made up out of whole cloth, but that events would play things out.

What happened was that people were too quick to jump all over hsc when Monday passed, and a lot of crow had to be eaten less than 24 hours later.

I'd like to give some advice as one who has been in this world for over half a century and as one who has been using the internet for going on a decade. It's better to let events take shape and if things don't seem to be as a person claims, hold off jumping on them. If they are making things up, they won't come back anyway. If they aren't, then you won't have to eat your words if things get postponed a bit as they did this week.

I just hope hsc is around to read the support she's been getting. And I hope she lets gug know we're not all quick to jump all over anyone who makes a claim.

On the other hand, I hope hsc is also around to read this: If someone jumps all over you, that's just the way of the internet. People are a whole lot braver here than they are in real life. (I know because I sure am!) It is silly to let a few negative comments lead to your saying, "That's the last time I'll ever post something I know."

There are always people who won't believe things until they see them. They're called skeptics. I teach science, and one of the things I teach is to approach all claims with a healthy dose of skepticism. Leaving in a snit isn't the way to deal with it. You've established credibility. Feel free to post all you want within board guidelines.

And no, we won't ask for your sources.

And Lip has already admitted that was a mistake, folks, so why don't we drop that issue, too!

Perfect post, TornLabrum, well said.

DSpivack
12-09-2002, 02:36 AM
Hmmmmmmm....back to the idea that someone thought we were now like lab rats here, isn't that kinda what being a Sox fan is all about? Am I the only one that feels like I'm rooting for some, strange cockamamie experiment that some kook (KW) will think will work? I would say he's kinda like a mad scientist, though even those are still intelligent and insane.

As for Jon Lieber, as long as he is cheap enough, why not go after him? What's the worst that could happen? He couldn't possibly be worse than that other former Cub signing (I refuse to say his name).

Anyways, it's 3:30am and I still have an English paper to write for tomorrow. (Yes, I am in college)

Talk to y'all later!

D. Spivack

Boocs2@AOL.com
Dspivac@learnlink.emory.edu

WinningUgly!
12-09-2002, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by DSpivack


As for Jon Lieber, as long as he is cheap enough, why not go after him? What's the worst that could happen? He couldn't possibly be worse than that other former Cub signing (I refuse to say his name).



"Go ahead...say it!"
:jaime

hose
12-09-2002, 05:44 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DSpivack

As for Jon Lieber, as long as he is cheap enough, why not go after him? What's the worst that could happen? He couldn't possibly be worse than that other former Cub signing (I refuse to say his name).


Sounds like Liebers pride was hurt by the Cubs, some team will sign him.

TornLabrum
12-09-2002, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by hose
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DSpivack

As for Jon Lieber, as long as he is cheap enough, why not go after him? What's the worst that could happen? He couldn't possibly be worse than that other former Cub signing (I refuse to say his name).


Sounds like Liebers pride was hurt by the Cubs, some team will sign him.

Less than a year after Tommy John surgery?

lowesox
12-13-2002, 01:17 PM
Here's a guy who's value is pretty low right now but could sky-rocket. This is the kind of player Schueler would have brilliantly snatched up. Shawn Estes would be another good pick. Same thing with Lieber.

I'd love to see Colon as part of the starting rotation if it weren't for the fact that he reminds me of the Indians, and that KW would surely overpay drastically for him.

DSpivack
04-22-2004, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Here's a guy who's value is pretty low right now but could sky-rocket. This is the kind of player Schueler would have brilliantly snatched up. Shawn Estes would be another good pick. Same thing with Lieber.

I'd love to see Colon as part of the starting rotation if it weren't for the fact that he reminds me of the Indians, and that KW would surely overpay drastically for him.

Sorry for bringing back another old post but yeah...

MRKARNO
04-22-2004, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by DSpivack
Sorry for bringing back another old post but yeah...

Just dont do it. Start a new thread with the quote and a link and make your comment.