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Lip Man 1
11-26-2002, 04:52 PM
The Sporting News now has a list of players that they say is on the trading block and are being actively shopped by their current teams. How accurate all this is, I have no idea, but here is their list just for information:

Michael Young - 2b - Rangers
Carlos Delgado - 1b - Blue jays
Neifi Perez - SS - Royals
Joe Randa - 3b - Royals
Steve Cox - 1b - Devil Rays
Craig Paquette - In - Tigers
Damion Easley - 2b - Tigers
Brook Fordyce - C - Orioles
Ben Grieve - Of - Devil Rays
Raul Mondesi - Of - Yankees
Frank Catalanotto - Of - Rangers
Jose' Cruz Jr. - Of - Blue Jays
Ellis Burks - Dh - Indians
Sterling Hitchcock - P - Yankees
Sidney Ponson - P - Orioles
Ryan Drese - P - Indians
Scott Schoeneweis - P - Angels

Keith Foulke - P - White Sox

Matt Anderson - P - Tigers
Mike Lowell - 3b - Marlins
Fernando Vina - 2b - Cardinals
Orlando Cabrera - Ss - Expos
Erubiel Durazo - 1b - D'backs
rey Ordonez - Ss - Mets
Mark Grudzielanek - 2b - Dodgers
Jeremy Giambi - 1b / Dh / Of - Phillies
Fernando Tatis - 3b - Expos

Eli Marrero - C - Cardinals

Todd Hundley - C - Cubs
J. D. Drew - Of - Cardinals

Brian Giles - Of - Pirates

Larry Walker - Of - Rockies

Bartolo Colon - P - Expos

Livan Hernandez - P - Giants
Brett Tomko - P - Padres
Kevin Jarvis - P - Padres
Antonio Alfonseca - P - Cubs
Scott Sauerbeck - P - Pirates
Byung Hyun Kim - P - D'backs

You can bet the house the Sox won't get ANY of them (even the ones who could help!)

Lip

Iguana775
11-26-2002, 08:44 PM
in the mag, they said that marte was the closer. i never heard that.

Vsahajpal
11-26-2002, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The Sporting News now has a list of players that they say is on the trading block and are being actively shopped by their current teams. How accurate all this is, I have no idea, but here is their list just for information:

Michael Young - 2b - Rangers
Carlos Delgado - 1b - Blue jays
Neifi Perez - SS - Royals
Joe Randa - 3b - Royals
Steve Cox - 1b - Devil Rays
Craig Paquette - In - Tigers
Damion Easley - 2b - Tigers
Brook Fordyce - C - Orioles
Ben Grieve - Of - Devil Rays
Raul Mondesi - Of - Yankees
Frank Catalanotto - Of - Rangers
Jose' Cruz Jr. - Of - Blue Jays
Ellis Burks - Dh - Indians
Sterling Hitchcock - P - Yankees
Sidney Ponson - P - Orioles
Ryan Drese - P - Indians
Scott Schoeneweis - P - Angels

Keith Foulke - P - White Sox

Matt Anderson - P - Tigers
Mike Lowell - 3b - Marlins
Fernando Vina - 2b - Cardinals
Orlando Cabrera - Ss - Expos
Erubiel Durazo - 1b - D'backs
rey Ordonez - Ss - Mets
Mark Grudzielanek - 2b - Dodgers
Jeremy Giambi - 1b / Dh / Of - Phillies
Fernando Tatis - 3b - Expos

Eli Marrero - C - Cardinals

Todd Hundley - C - Cubs
J. D. Drew - Of - Cardinals

Brian Giles - Of - Pirates

Larry Walker - Of - Rockies

Bartolo Colon - P - Expos

Livan Hernandez - P - Giants
Brett Tomko - P - Padres
Kevin Jarvis - P - Padres
Antonio Alfonseca - P - Cubs
Scott Sauerbeck - P - Pirates
Byung Hyun Kim - P - D'backs

You can bet the house the Sox won't get ANY of them (even the ones who could help!)

Lip

Thanks. Is that in the print edition?

SI1020
11-26-2002, 09:15 PM
I live in Pittsburgh and the Giles rumor has been off and on for about 2 years now. Baseball is on life support here and a Giles trade would go over like a lead balloon IMO, unless they got someone (s) really good. Perhaps now that Littlefield has traded for Simon he thinks he has some leeway to make a deal for Giles. I don't think so, but we shall see. As far as Foulke's name appearing on the list, I hope the Sox don't trade him unless someone makes a really good offer. Given KW's track record, I doubt that will happen.

NewyorkSoxFan
11-26-2002, 10:38 PM
Does anyone have any thoughts about Jose Cruz Jr. in left. Especially if you want to trade CLee. I have always liked him even in Seattle, he just can't seem to settle anywhere? What are your thoughts out their people?


NYSF

MarkEdward
11-26-2002, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
Does anyone have any thoughts about Jose Cruz Jr. in left. Especially if you want to trade CLee. I have always liked him even in Seattle, he just can't seem to settle anywhere? What are your thoughts out their people?


NYSF

Way too expensive, but he'd be easy to acquire since Ricciardi has been trying to unload him. Carlos Lee is a much better option.

NewyorkSoxFan
11-27-2002, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Way too expensive, but he'd be easy to acquire since Ricciardi has been trying to unload him. Carlos Lee is a much better option.

I don't know what he is making, but he is a better defender than carlos is. Although he hit 245 18hr 70rbi/carlos 264 26hr 80rbi. Maybe he is not the answer but pitching and defense will usually win, look at the twins. Their left fielder had a career year (Jones 300 27hr 85rbi's. But they had an outfield that could go get the ball.

So I am not saying that Cruz Jr. is the answer but someone like that, who can play very good defense is a good not great hitter. We have enough guys who are marginal defenders who really fit the mold of DH's more than anything. Konerko, CLee, Thomas, Leifer.


NYSF

cornball
11-27-2002, 08:50 AM
Cruz made 3.7 MM last year, JD Drew has me curious but with his agent it will never happen, Drew made 3.1MM last year.

Bobby Thigpen
11-27-2002, 09:30 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing Marrero and Vina in Chicago. I also wouldn't mind seeing Randa on the Sox, but with Crede finally here that is a moot point. What would everyone think about Tomko? He had a pretty decent year for a team that was pretty bad. How old is he? I don't think he's very old, but I could be wrong. I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox get him. I doubt it would cost us that much.

maurice
11-27-2002, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
I also wouldn't mind seeing Randa on the Sox, but with Crede finally here that is a moot point.

Agreed. Where were all these 3Bs when we needed one?

Sweeney will be pretty...um...peeved if they trade Randa.

MarkEdward
11-27-2002, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
I don't know what he is making, but he is a better defender than carlos is. Although he hit 245 18hr 70rbi/carlos 264 26hr 80rbi. Maybe he is not the answer but pitching and defense will usually win, look at the twins. Their left fielder had a career year (Jones 300 27hr 85rbi's. But they had an outfield that could go get the ball.

Actually, by some measures, Lee has been the better defensive player. And Cruz isn't great defensively: his range factor and fielding percentage are both below average for a left fielder.

And the Twins didn't win defense. They were ranked sixth in the AL in defensive efficiency (Sox were ranked second).

So I am not saying that Cruz Jr. is the answer but someone like that, who can play very good defense is a good not great hitter. We have enough guys who are marginal defenders who really fit the mold of DH's more than anything. Konerko, CLee, Thomas, Leifer.
NYSF

Ah, yes. Just what the Sox need. Bring on Niefi Perez! Let's get Rey Ordonez!

NewyorkSoxFan
11-27-2002, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Actually, by some measures, Lee has been the better defensive player. And Cruz isn't great defensively: his range factor and fielding percentage are both below average for a left fielder.

And the Twins didn't win defense. They were ranked sixth in the AL in defensive efficiency (Sox were ranked second).



Ah, yes. Just what the Sox need. Bring on Niefi Perez! Let's get Rey Ordonez!


What are you smoking!! Carlos is not a better left fielder than he is. He is playing a very tough left field in toronto, nothing like C. Park. He has also been a right fielder as well, showing he has versatility. If you want to talk about his hitting, I'll give you that, but please don't tell me he is a better left fielder.

And as far as the Twins are concerned I guess you missed all the homers they took back over the wall last season. Our infielders cant handle a bunt play on defense, and you wonder why we constantly give up 4 and 5 outs an inning.

Especially when you have young pitchers do you need good defense, the can't handle having to pitch over mistake after mistake.

NYSF

Soxheads
11-27-2002, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
What are you smoking!! Carlos is not a better left fielder than he is. He is playing a very tough left field in toronto, nothing like C. Park. He has also been a right fielder as well, showing he has versatility. If you want to talk about his hitting, I'll give you that, but please don't tell me he is a better left fielder.

And as far as the Twins are concerned I guess you missed all the homers they took back over the wall last season. Our infielders cant handle a bunt play on defense, and you wonder why we constantly give up 4 and 5 outs an inning.

Especially when you have young pitchers do you need good defense, the can't handle having to pitch over mistake after mistake.

NYSF

I think he forgot the teal. At least I hope he did.

MarkEdward
11-27-2002, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
What are you smoking!! Carlos is not a better left fielder than he is. He is playing a very tough left field in toronto, nothing like C. Park. He has also been a right fielder as well, showing he has versatility. If you want to talk about his hitting, I'll give you that, but please don't tell me he is a better left fielder.

First, I'd like to hear your reasoning on why Toronto's left field is much harder to play in than Comiskey's left field.

Second, let's take a glance at their defensive stats (yes, I understand most defensive metrics are crude, but stay with me):

Fielding Percentage (through 2001):
Lee (384 games)- .980
Cruz (178 games)- .975

Range Factor (through 2001):
Lee- 1.92
Cruz- 1.76

Rate2 (a Prospectus stat, where 100 is the average) Through 2002:
Lee- 103
Cruz- 100

Third, Cruz has never played right field. He's played plenty in center, where he is a little below average. And on the subject of versatility: Jeff Liefer can play left field, right field, third base, *and* first base. Does that make him a good defender?

Fourth, remember the price. Cruz has no significant advantage over Lee, so it'd be pointless to get him.


And as far as the Twins are concerned I guess you missed all the homers they took back over the wall last season. Our infielders cant handle a bunt play on defense, and you wonder why we constantly give up 4 and 5 outs an inning.

Well, the Sox only had 97 errors on the year (fifth fewest in the AL), so they weren't "constantly" giving four or five outs an inning.

Especially when you have young pitchers do you need good defense, the can't handle having to pitch over mistake after mistake.

NYSF

That I'd agree on, to an extent. The Sox were 11th in strikeouts this past season in the AL. Don't know if anyone has read Voros McCracken's work (great Sox fan, by the way), but he's concluded that aside fom K's and BB's, pitchers don't have much control over the hits they give up. A better defense could help out our pitchers (not saying we should acquire Perez and Ordonez).