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Jerry_Manuel
11-23-2002, 05:11 PM
Gammons (http://espn.go.com/gammons/s/2002/1123/1465346.html)

I'll just list a few that I found interesting.

"How about enforcing the rules on transactions? How does Francisco Rodriguez, who wasn't even on the (Angels') 40-man roster on Sept. 15, manage to get on the playoff roster?
An AL executive

1. Teams that allow public relations to dictate personnel and organizational decisions.

I cannot believe what the Phillies have done this offseason," says one general manager. "But I almost hope they do end up signing Jim Thome for six years and $90 million, Tom Glavine for four years, David Bell for four years, then wonder what happened three years from now.


"They put all this pressure on themselves by jumping out and tying their credibility to how much money they can spend, without any concern about Thome's back or playing the field in a couple of years.

kermittheefrog
11-23-2002, 05:27 PM
Peter Gammons did a list of 25 things wrong with the game of baseball and surprisingly I think it's dead on. He hits on pretty much all of the problems with how the game is played.

http://msn.espn.go.com/gammons/s/2002/1123/1465346.html

Jjav829
11-23-2002, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Peter Gammons did a list of 25 things wrong with the game of baseball and surprisingly I think it's dead on. He hits on pretty much all of the problems with how the game is played.

http://msn.espn.go.com/gammons/s/2002/1123/1465346.html

Wow, surprisingly I have agree with Gammons as well. Although most of it was from GM's that he talked to.

cheeses_h_rice
11-23-2002, 05:39 PM
How about this comment?

24. One National League GM insists "we need stricter consequences for an intentional walk. Should an intentional walk advance all baserunners? Fans should be allowed to enjoy Barry Bonds more, even if it beats us."

If they did this, I'm sure you wouldn't see an increase in pitches 2-3 feet outside the strike zone to hitters like Bonds, just to avoid being classified as 'intentional'.

Daver
11-23-2002, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
How about this comment?



If they did this, I'm sure you wouldn't see an increase in pitches 2-3 feet outside the strike zone to hitters like Bonds, just to avoid being classified as 'intentional'.

To quote Milt Pappas "The game sucks nowadays"

Jjav829
11-23-2002, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
How about this comment?



If they did this, I'm sure you wouldn't see an increase in pitches 2-3 feet outside the strike zone to hitters like Bonds, just to avoid being classified as 'intentional'.

Yeah, really. If they were ever going to do something like that we would just see more unintentional intentional walks and more HBP's. The guy wears so much armor, might as well just hit him then if you can't give him a free pass.

ScottyTheSoxFan
11-23-2002, 05:47 PM
they mention paying closers too much but they dont touch on steroids. big surprise.

hempsox
11-23-2002, 05:50 PM
The only thing that i didn't see on the list would be to schedule a number of games throughout the season as doubleheaders. Tell me a day/night dh wouldn't be feasible on the national holidays or perhaps late in the season when the rosters are expanded (which I agree should be abolished).
Players would prolly object but maybe they wouldn't mind it if they knew that they wouldn't be playing in november.

MarkEdward
11-23-2002, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by ScottyTheSoxFan
they mention paying closers too much but they dont touch on steroids. big surprise.

Um, maybe because there is no steroid problem in baseball?

PaleHoseGeorge
11-23-2002, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by daver
To quote Milt Pappas "The game sucks nowadays"

Boy, is Milt Pappas the most bitter old man you've ever heard, or what? The guy is still pissing about the ball four call that left him with only a no-hitter and short of a perfect game.

It's been 30 years, Milt. GIVE IT UP!

p.s.
The pitch was low. If Milt was honest, he'd admit he was expecting a charity call from the homeplate ump.

Daver
11-23-2002, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Boy, is Milt Pappas the most bitter old man you've ever heard, or what? The guy is still pissing about the ball four call that left him with only a no-hitter and short of a perfect game.

It's been 30 years, Milt. GIVE IT UP!

p.s.
The pitch was low. If Milt was honest, he'd admit he was expecting a charity call from the homeplate ump.

All of that is true,but I do agree with some of his veiws about the state of the game today.

And that line makes for a great quote. :redneck

kermittheefrog
11-23-2002, 07:23 PM
How about 2 bases for the batter if it's a four pitch walk?

longshot7
11-24-2002, 04:22 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
"While we're at it," adds one AL executive, "how about enforcing the rules on transactions? How does Francisco Rodriguez, who wasn't even on the (Angels') 40-man roster on Sept. 15, manage to get on the playoff roster?"


Frankie made it on the playoff roster because two Angels pitchers that played for them during the season got injured - Aaron Sele and Dennis Cook. It makes sense to me - you have to be able to replace your injured guys. Who knew Frankie would be so lights-out?

23. "Uniforms," says one AL executive, "that aren't uniform. What's the definition of 'uniform

Agreed. No one should be able to put their FIRST NAME on their uniform. See a certain Mariners right-fielder....

PaleHoseGeorge
11-24-2002, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
23. "Uniforms," says one AL executive, "that aren't uniform. What's the definition of 'uniform

Agreed. No one should be able to put their FIRST NAME on their uniform. See a certain Mariners right-fielder....

Actually, I find the players wearing their pant-legs anywhere from just beneath the knee down to the bottom of their ankle far more obnoxious than Ichiro's name.

Barry Bonds is the worst. He looks like a frickin' drum major out there. Somebody hand him a baton!

doublem23
11-24-2002, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Um, maybe because there is no steroid problem in baseball?

LOL....

I won't even talk about the steroid problems I knew about in high school.

RKMeibalane
11-25-2002, 10:04 AM
I think the intentional walk should be eliminated entirely. It detracts from the game. If Barry Bonds comes to bat in a tie-game in the ninth inning, it should be up to the pitcher to get him out. If that doesn't happen, so be it. This is probably an extreme solution, but I would much rather see players and teams forced to deal with the opposition, instead of just avoiding them by walking everyone.

Blueprint1
11-25-2002, 10:49 AM
the intentional walk is part of the game. It needs to be part of the game. If your whole batting order is not good enough to drive in the runs you shoudnt win the game. Getting rid of the intentional walk would make baseball even less of a team game. Indivdual hitters would become more important. As of right now a team can have a great hitter (A-Rod) and the team can be really bad. If the rest of the players around this player can't drive in runs why would you pitch to this player? the intentional walk is part of the game a very important part. The last thing i want to see is more superstar power in baseball. It was hard enough dealing with the Bonds vs Angles world series. I know its fun to see "super stars" hit homeruns but this is a team game lets keep it that way. If it means walking players so be it. Get some players that can hit around that player and they won't get walked

Randar68
11-25-2002, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by longshot7
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel

23. "Uniforms," says one AL executive, "that aren't uniform. What's the definition of 'uniform

Agreed. No one should be able to put their FIRST NAME on their uniform. See a certain Mariners right-fielder....

Actually, in Asia, most countries (China, Japan and Korea, for instance) write and say their names surname first, given name second. When we, as American's re-construe their names, we re-order them to surname last, given name first. Ichiro Suzuki is like saying Bonds Barry to him.

While it is still his "given" name, not surname, it is his last name, so to speak.

maurice
11-25-2002, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Ichiro Suzuki is like saying Bonds Barry to him. While it is still his "given" name, not surname, it is his last name, so to speak.

This is semantics.

In America, your "last" name is your "family" name; in Japan, your "first" name is your "family" name. Barry Bonds' family name is "Bonds," while Ichiro Suzuki's family name is "Suzuki."

To be "uniform," uniforms should state only a player's "family" name. Ichiro Suzuki's jersey should say "Suzuki." Due to the large number of players named "Suzuki" in Japan, it's not very helpful to put "Suzuki" on the back of a uniform. That's not an issue in this country.

oldcomiskey
11-25-2002, 04:06 PM
oh please--weve had 3 players that I can think of that had other than thier last names on the uniform
Ken Harrelson==had Hawk on his Indian uniform
Vida Blue--had Vida on his Giants uniform
and Ichiro--whats the big deal about this....

and what do you expect the Angels to do? go in two players short and like the poster said earlier--who knew how good he was gonna be---would anyone complain if he pitched like navarro---?

Soxheads
11-25-2002, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by maurice
This is semantics.

In America, your "last" name is your "family" name; in Japan, your "first" name is your "family" name. Barry Bonds' family name is "Bonds," while Ichiro Suzuki's family name is "Suzuki."

To be "uniform," uniforms should state only a player's "family" name. Ichiro Suzuki's jersey should say "Suzuki." Due to the large number of players named "Suzuki" in Japan, it's not very helpful to put "Suzuki" on the back of a uniform. That's not an issue in this country.

No, his family name is "Ichiro", just like Yao Ming's family name is "Yao". It is correct on their uniforms.

maurice
11-25-2002, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by me
This is semantics.

In America, your "last" name is your "family" name; in Japan, your "first" name is your "family" name. Barry Bonds' family name is "Bonds," while Ichiro Suzuki's family name is "Suzuki."

To be "uniform," uniforms should state only a player's "family" name. Ichiro Suzuki's jersey should say "Suzuki." Due to the large number of players named "Suzuki" in Japan, it's not very helpful to put "Suzuki" on the back of a uniform. That's not an issue in this country.

Originally posted by Soxheads
No, his family name is "Ichiro"

It's not polite to just make things up like that.

The fact is, Suzuki is an extremely common family name in Japan (think motor sports). The uniform issue was reported on extensively when he first came into the league. For example, the AP (http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/052601/spo_ichiro.shtml) reported:

And like Michael and Mario and other superstars, he's become known by just his first name (pronounced "EEE-cheh-row"). It's even on the back of his uniform. It's a carry-over from Japan, where Suzuki is a common name.

The Seattle Times web page offers a comprehensive bio, including a short discussion of his father, Nobuyuki Suzuki. (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/sports/mariners/spotlight/ichiro/bio/)


What the Mariners have done is the equivalant of outfitting a player named "John Smith" with a jersey that says "John" instead of "Smith." This from a league that sometimes prevents players from altering their uniforms in tribute to deceased teammates. If they're going to be this arbitrary, they might as well go full XFL and let players put "hehateme" on their jerseys.

Soxheads
11-25-2002, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by maurice
It's not polite to just make things up like that.

The fact is, Suzuki is an extremely common family name in Japan (think motor sports). The uniform issue was reported on extensively when he first came into the league. For example, the AP (http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/052601/spo_ichiro.shtml) reported:



The Seattle Times web page offers a comprehensive bio, including a short discussion of his father, Nobuyuki Suzuki. (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/sports/mariners/spotlight/ichiro/bio/)


What the Mariners have done is the equivalant of outfitting a player named "John Smith" with a jersey that says "John" instead of "Smith." This from a league that sometimes prevents players from altering their uniforms in tribute to deceased teammates. If they're going to be this arbitrary, they might as well go full XFL and let players put "hehateme" on their jerseys.

I guess what I was getting at is that people from Japan, China etc. usually put their family name first. If the family name is in fact "Suzuki", a lot of people have messed it up.

Where the hell is Nellie when you need him?

Soxheads
11-25-2002, 05:36 PM
Well, you are in fact right.

Suzuki is his family name... (http://www.citypaper.com/2001-05-30/upper.html)

Didn't see the AP link there, sorry. :smile:

Soxheads
11-25-2002, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Soxheads
Well, you are in fact right.

Suzuki is his family name... (http://www.citypaper.com/2001-05-30/upper.html)

Didn't see the AP link there, sorry. :smile:

This is the way I'm used to seeing it: Japanese Names (http://www.kyoto-su.ac.jp/information/famous/)

PaleHoseGeorge
11-25-2002, 07:29 PM
Gammons is such a dope. He quotes the anonymous A.L. executive complaining, "Uniforms," says one AL executive, "that aren't uniform. What's the definition of 'uniform?' "

Does Gammons clarify what the executive is complaining about? Of course not. He leaves it to his readers to figure it out. This guy is a complete dope.

If the executive was complaining about the ridiculous trend towards pants lengths that now range 24 inches on a single team, he may have a point.

OTOH, if this executive was whining about Ichiro's name, he's nothing but a xenophobe--and a hypocrite, too--as our own "Hawk" Harrelson had his first name on his jersey 30 years ago. Gammons leaves us to guess what he is.

:boston
"The next cogent thought I express will be my first!*"

*not counting endless babbling about Boston and the A.L. East

Ol Aches & Pains
11-25-2002, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
[QUOTENo one should be able to put their FIRST NAME on their uniform. See a certain Mariners right-fielder....

Oh, please. Ichiro is one of the few things that's right about baseball. If there were more players like him, the game would be a lot more exciting than it is now.

guillen4life13
11-25-2002, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by Ol Aches & Pains
Oh, please. Ichiro is one of the few things that's right about baseball. If there were more players like him, the game would be a lot more exciting than it is now.

Aye.

maurice
11-26-2002, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Soxheads
Didn't see the AP link there, sorry.

No problem.


Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
OTOH, if this executive was whining about Ichiro's name, he's nothing but a xenophobe--and a hypocrite, too--as our own "Hawk" Harrelson had his first name on his jersey 30 years ago.

I wouldn't go that far. Perhaps the unnamed executive also believes that putting "Hawk" on a jersey is improper. He's not speaking for MLB, and there's been a lot of turnover in MLB ownership in the last 30 years.