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Soxheads
11-21-2002, 09:56 PM
Frank Thomas has been expressing a desire to play defense again, an aspiration that likely is part of an attempt to broaden his free-agent opportunities.

If Thomas does return to the White Sox, manager Jerry Manuel said Tuesday that Thomas will get his wish. While Paul Konerko will remain the regular first baseman, Manuel said Thomas will get more time there.



Sun-Times: Thomas wants to play the field (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox20.html)

FanOf14
11-22-2002, 08:56 AM
That scares me...Thomas has choked at first for a while now. I wonder if this isn't just something to get the NL teams interested in him.

duke of dorwood
11-22-2002, 08:57 AM
Seen this movie before.

:jerry

Hmmmmmmm, more tinkering options

rmusacch
11-22-2002, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by FanOf14
That scares me...Thomas has choked at first for a while now. I wonder if this isn't just something to get the NL teams interested in him.

Ya Think? :)

FarmerAndy
11-22-2002, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by FanOf14
That scares me...Thomas has choked at first for a while now. I wonder if this isn't just something to get the NL teams interested in him.

I don't doubt that he's trying to draw interest from N.L. teams. However, I believe the reason he's choked at first is simply because he hardly plays there anymore. If you only trot him out there 4 times a year, he's probably gonna be rusty. If he were to go to an N.L. team and play 1B everyday, I don't think he'd look quite so bad. I'm not saying he'll ever be gold glove material, far from it. But I seriously doubt he'd be any worse defensively than say, Fred McGriff, who's been allowed to stink it up at 1B for years now without taking too much crap for it.

Frank's problem at first has always been that he can't throw well. (When trying for a force out at second, the ball may end up in left field.) He also has a hard time fielding bunts. As far as his glove goes, I never thought he was all that bad. He has pretty good range to the left and to the right. Even since '99, when Konerko became the regular 1B, I've seen Frank make some great diving plays that might have been out of reach for Paulie. (Note: I'm in no way trying to imply that Frank Thomas is a better 1B than Paul Konerko.)

34 Inch Stick
11-22-2002, 12:20 PM
The best way to steal on the Sox with Frank playing 1B is to draw a pickoff throw to first. The ball will never get close to 2B.

maurice
11-22-2002, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by FanOf14
I wonder if this isn't just something to get the NL teams interested in him.


Also could have something to do with him being benched through the bulk of interleague play.

WhiteSox = Life
11-22-2002, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy
Even since '99, when Konerko became the regular 1B, I've seen Frank make some great diving plays that might have been out of reach for Paulie. (Note: I'm in no way trying to imply that Frank Thomas is a better 1B than Paul Konerko.)

Paul Konerko is a vacuum cleaner at first. He'll make 98% of the easy to medium-difficulty plays. The tougher ones, he'll do mediocre on. Paul is also slow on his feet and doesn't have the greatest of reactions. Frank has a little bit better range. . Though Thomas may make the tougher plays, he has a little bit better reaction and is 3 inches taller than Konerko. But Thomas can't make all the easy to medium plays consistently enough, or at least, as well as Konerko does. That coupled with Konerko being able to fire to second or home, even third a lot better than Thomas, makes Konerko the everyday White Sox first basemen.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-22-2002, 07:53 PM
Look, debating the defensive utility of firstbasemen (especially A.L. firstbasemen) is sooooooo beyond the point.

Firstbasemen are put on this Earth to provide power and as much OBP as possible. That's why the position's defensive needs are so limited. Basically you stand around 50 percent of the game waiting to receive somebody else's peg. It's perfect for slow-footed behemoths who otherwise have no place to play on the team, short of becoming a DH.

Paul Konerko can only manage to rank seventh among A.L. firstbasemen because six other teams have behemoths that slug the ball better and get on base more. That's why Paul Konerko (so far) is nothing but an AVERAGE everyday firstbasemen.

Please take the blinders off.

guillen4life13
11-23-2002, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Look, debating the defensive utility of firstbasemen (especially A.L. firstbasemen) is sooooooo beyond the point.

Firstbasemen are put on this Earth to provide power and as much OBP as possible. That's why the position's defensive needs are so limited. Basically you stand around 50 percent of the game waiting to receive somebody else's peg. It's perfect for slow-footed behemoths who otherwise have no place to play on the team, short of becoming a DH.

Paul Konerko can only manage to rank seventh among A.L. firstbasemen because six other teams have behemoths that slug the ball better and get on base more. That's why Paul Konerko (so far) is nothing but an AVERAGE everyday firstbasemen.

Please take the blinders off.

agreed. However, I think that Paul Konerko is better than #7.

Let me think of who would be ahead of him:

Giambi
Palmeiro
Olerud


who else would be up there (i know i'm missing one or two guys, but Konerko seems like he would come in at 4).

voodoochile
11-23-2002, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
agreed. However, I think that Paul Konerko is better than #7.

Let me think of who would be ahead of him:

Giambi
Palmeiro
Olerud


who else would be up there (i know i'm missing one or two guys, but Konerko seems like he would come in at 4).

Well, depending on where Thome ends up, it might drop Paul to at least #5...

RKMeibalane
11-23-2002, 09:51 AM
I would probably put Mike Sweeney ahead of Konerko as well. He's easy to overlook because he plays on a bad team.

guillen4life13
11-23-2002, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I would probably put Mike Sweeney ahead of Konerko as well. He's easy to overlook because he plays on a bad team.

i donno. i mean, I agree that Sweeney is a really, really good 1B, but (maybe I'm biased, but aren't we all?) I really think that Paul Konerko is the better player.

guillen4life13
11-23-2002, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Well, depending on where Thome ends up, it might drop Paul to at least #5...

is this rating system based on OPS? because honestly, I think Konerko is more of an all around player than Thome. How many RBI did Thome have last year? Last I knew, he didn't crack 100. But i'm not really sure.

OfficerKarkovice
11-23-2002, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
is this rating system based on OPS? because honestly, I think Konerko is more of an all around player than Thome. How many RBI did Thome have last year? Last I knew, he didn't crack 100. But i'm not really sure.

Thome had 118 RBI's last year...he is a better player than Paul Konerko unfortunately. You also have to consider Carlos Delgado who nobody really talked about last year but he is one of the best 1B in all of MLB.

HITMEN OF 77
11-23-2002, 01:03 PM
I think Konerko is a better 1st baseman than Thome. Konerko is younger, hits the ball to all fields and a great clubhouse leader. Konerko still had a great year even with an injury over the last 1/3rd of the year and would have surpased Thome's stats by far if not for that.. It could be I'm highly biased as well though. Should we keep Frank????........I think we should, he could come back to "hurt" us later.

oldcomiskey
11-23-2002, 01:40 PM
first of all why isnt the tongue copywrited-----

and second anybody who thinks Frank needs to go should be shot

PaleHoseGeorge
11-23-2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
i donno. i mean, I agree that Sweeney is a really, really good 1B, but (maybe I'm biased, but aren't we all?) I really think that Paul Konerko is the better player.

I hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting his entire post on this subject, but here is dadawg's post (taken from the "Diamond Mind" thread) on the relative value of Konerko vs. other A.L. firstbasemen.

For anybody who still thinks Paul Konerko is anything but an AVERAGE everyday firstbasmen, read 'em and weep.

The Players with at least 300 AB at 1B who had a higher OPS then Pauly: (in order)
Thome
Giambi
Sweeney
Palmeiro
Delgado
Olerud

Teams with a better OPS at 1B (In Order)
Clev
KC
Yankees (Maybe this is why they want to trade Johnson)
Toronto
Texas
Seatlle

Overall OPS
Yankees
Texas
Boston
White Sox
Anaheim
A's
Twins
Seatlle

Another intersting tibit is from the seventh inning on the White Sox lead the AL in OPS. Vs Power pitchers the Sox have .779 OPS while vs Finesse they have .791 but four slots in the standings. Pre All Star game the Sox had a .773 OPS and afterwards .803.

maurice
11-25-2002, 12:40 PM
Sorry...I love Paulie, but anyone who thinks he's better than Thome and Sweeney needs to lay off the koolaide and pick up the box scores. Thome and Sweeney are two of the top ten offensive players in the AL, despite playing for crappy teams. Paulie isn't even the best offensive player on the Sox. Heck, after next year, he might not even be the second best.