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Lip Man 1
11-19-2002, 01:18 PM
'They'll love you for a while, but you better win. Enjoy yourself for a while, but you need to win.'"--Jerry Manuel (aka Manager Gandhi)


Geez if that's the way it is in Chicago, then exactly WHY is Gandhi still here?????

Two "winning" seasons in five years and one of those years had a grand total of 83 victories. Also 0-3 in post season play.

Lip

Dadawg_77
11-19-2002, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
'They'll love you for a while, but you better win. Enjoy yourself for a while, but you need to win.'"--Jerry Manuel (aka Manager Gandhi)


Geez if that's the way it is in Chicago, then exactly WHY is Gandhi still here?????

Two "winning" seasons in five years and one of those years had a grand total of 83 victories. Also 0-3 in post season play.

Lip

Lip what is the context of the quote? Is he talking about feelings from upstairs or the stands?

duke of dorwood
11-19-2002, 03:46 PM
I think he was alerting the new Cub mis-manager to what he will face here in the papers. Good thing this zero isnt in New York or philly if he thinks he has it bad here.

RKMeibalane
11-19-2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
I think he was alerting the new Cub mis-manager to what he will face here in the papers. Good thing this zero isnt in New York or philly if he thinks he has it bad here.

Agreed. I don't know what Manuel's problem is. We are harder on him than any of the papers are. If he thinks people were calling for his head last season, then he needs to get his head out of his rear end and realize that things could get much worse for him, especially if Ken Williams keeps adding his "goons" to the coaching staff. That, and he continues "tinkering" with the lineup, thereby decreasing the Sox chances of winning.

MisterB
11-19-2002, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Agreed. I don't know what Manuel's problem is. We are harder on him than any of the papers are.

I think that's his point. In SF the media was critical of Baker (though not excessively so), but the fans were overwhelmingly behind him and most wanted him back. In Chicago, the fans will turn on him way before the media does (especially the Cubune).

Lip Man 1
11-19-2002, 06:05 PM
Yes, that was advice that Manuel was giving Baker when the two talked over the phone recently.

and I agree with The Duke, Manuel would have been destroyed or run out of New York, Boston or Philly LONG before he had a chance to last five years.

Lip

RichH55
11-19-2002, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Yes, that was advice that Manuel was giving Baker when the two talked over the phone recently.

and I agree with The Duke, Manuel would have been destroyed or run out of New York, Boston or Philly LONG before he had a chance to last five years.

Lip

Lip you constantly bash management for not putting a good product on the field....every move by another team is a way to point out Sox futility, hell even Sirotka to the cubs was a stroke of genius that left you thinking Sox management was both the anti-christ and foolish beyond comprehension....yet you expect the manager to win with bad hands(as I think it would be safe to categorize the way you think about the sox) he has been dealt? Wouldnt going to the playoffs under the Schuelers, KWs, JRs of your nightmare scenarios be cause to give him some credit? Didnt you give the Cubs credit for hiring a guy who won manager of the year? Didnt Jerry M win that(IIRC)? Well I applaud you ability to stay on topic(to the point of extremes), at some point wouldnt some of these arguments overlap?

Lip Man 1
11-19-2002, 07:27 PM
Rich:

I never said it was ENTIRELY Manager Gandhi's fault did I?

But more to the point a competent manager could have done a BETTER job even with the bad hands he was dealt.

A good manager (i.e. LaRussa, Weaver, Martin, LaSorda) would have told the GM to get the hell out of his clubhouse and to stop sticking his nose where it doesn't belong (making the field manager's job all the more difficult), a manager who had confidence in himself and his ability, would have made stronger demands of ownership to start getting him what he needs, publicly if necessary. Finally a quality manager (in my opinion) when he said he was going to "bench" somebody (i.e. Clayton, "The Butcher" Lee) would have actually meant it and not reinstated them two or three days later.

Lastly a manager who had any brains at all wouldn't have made this ludicrous statement to the Chicago newspapers (even if he actually believed it!) "I don't care if we finish last in fielding..." (and that certainly shows in the way the Sox execute fundamentals both offensively and defensively.)

Just my opinion.

Lip