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View Full Version : All Quiet on the Frank front?


RichH55
11-19-2002, 05:42 AM
I haven't heard a ton about Frank since he has become an FA...some on again, off again low level flirtation with the O's(mostly rumors, not that much concrete) and name dropping Boston....Neither Boston nor Baltimore has settled their GM situations and alot of the "big name" FAs out there like Thome and Floyd aren't making quick decesions which hurts Frank's leverage. December 7th isn't all that far away and I think we are going to luck back into having Frank here, not having to move Lee to DH, and not having to worry about Rowand's health or lack of ability to a large extent. Am I offbase here?

RichH55
11-19-2002, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
I haven't heard a ton about Frank since he has become an FA...some on again, off again low level flirtation with the O's(mostly rumors, not that much concrete) and name dropping Boston....Neither Boston nor Baltimore has settled their GM situations and alot of the "big name" FAs out there like Thome and Floyd aren't making quick decesions which hurts Frank's leverage. December 7th isn't all that far away and I think we are going to luck back into having Frank here, not having to move Lee to DH, and not having to worry about Rowand's health or lack of ability to a large extent. Am I offbase here?


The fact that Thomas has to try and use Gammons to get his name back into the spotlight would seem to bode well for us as well, correct?

hold2dibber
11-19-2002, 07:56 AM
Today's Trib reports that Frank is getting much interest out there and concludes that he will be back with the Sox. Interestingly, it also says that Frank hasn't returned a message left for KW for him several weeks ago; apparently, Frank is not a big KW fan (but then again, other than JR, who is?).

jeremyb1
11-19-2002, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
I haven't heard a ton about Frank since he has become an FA...some on again, off again low level flirtation with the O's(mostly rumors, not that much concrete) and name dropping Boston....Neither Boston nor Baltimore has settled their GM situations and alot of the "big name" FAs out there like Thome and Floyd aren't making quick decesions which hurts Frank's leverage. December 7th isn't all that far away and I think we are going to luck back into having Frank here, not having to move Lee to DH, and not having to worry about Rowand's health or lack of ability to a large extent. Am I offbase here?

i think its a pretty sure thing that frank's not going anywhere.

Jerry_Manuel
11-19-2002, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Today's Trib reports that Frank is getting much interest out there and concludes that he will be back with the Sox. Interestingly, it also says that Frank hasn't returned a message left for KW for him several weeks ago; apparently, Frank is not a big KW fan (but then again, other than JR, who is?).

Why should Thomas deal with Williams, a guy who doesn't want him around?

RKMeibalane
11-19-2002, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Why should Thomas deal with Williams, a guy who doesn't want him around?

Agreed. Williams would like nothing better than to see Frank Thomas never set foot in Comiskey Park again. As long as he is around, Thomas serves as a reminder of what the Chicago White Sox used to be, back when they dominated the American League in the early-to-mid nineties.

Williams has made it clear that he wants to run this ballclub his way, but that won't happen as long as someone with Thomas' reputation remains in the clubhouse. Frank has "put his foot in his mouth" several times over the course of his career, but I think people would listen if he spoke at length about the problems Williams has created since he took over as GM. Thomas is highly respected by his peers, and many players, I'm sure, would heed his warnings to avoid the White Sox and Ken Williams.

Furthermore, Thomas represents the one issue that Williams and Reinsdorf don't agree on. I think JR would like to see Frank finish his career in Chicago, if no other reason, so Thomas doesn't make him look foolish by having a successful and productive season somewhere else.

Williams, on the other hand, doesn't want Frank around. IIRC, it was Williams, not Reinsdorf, who acutally invoked the "Diminished Skills Clause" in Thomas' contract. As long as Frank stays, JR and KW won't be completely on the same page. This has the potential to result in other disagreements, which could lead to Williams' firing. And believe me, that man won't get another GM job for a long, long time if the Sox fire him.

Daver
11-19-2002, 10:31 PM
[i]

Williams, on the other hand, doesn't want Frank around. IIRC, it was Williams, not Reinsdorf, who acutally invoked the "Diminished Skills Clause" in Thomas' contract. As long as Frank stays, JR and KW won't be completely on the same page. This has the potential to result in other disagreements, which could lead to Williams' firing. And believe me, that man won't get another GM job for a long, long time if the Sox fire him. [/B]

Jerry Reinsdorf was the only one with the authority to invoke that clause,Kenny Williams is just the mouthpiece on this deal.

Lip Man 1
11-19-2002, 11:15 PM
Daver:

I don't know if that's the case. Remember Williams told Paul Sullivan that "he" invoked the clause and that JR agreed with him.

It may just be a matter of semantics though.

Lip

NewyorkSoxFan
11-20-2002, 07:44 AM
Agreed. Williams would like nothing better than to see Frank Thomas never set foot in Comiskey Park again. As long as he is around, Thomas serves as a reminder of what the Chicago White Sox used to be, back when they dominated the American League in the early-to-mid nineties.






I think we may be overstating the point a bit. They had solid
teams in the 90's but "dominate" is a strong word. The Blue Jays were dominating, the Yankees have dominated, and so have the Braves. We won one division title in the decade, far from dominant.

NYSF

baggio202
11-20-2002, 11:46 AM
another team that has the cash and could be a player in the thomas sweepstakes is anaheim..they have brad fullmer as DH...he made 3.75 million last year and is looking for 5 million in arbitration and he will probably get it....there is alot of positive talk on the angels board about getting thomas...their fans want to see the angels move fullmer and go after thomas...

if they could get frank for maybe 5 million plus incentives and find a way to move fullmer..they would be crazy not to..frank in the middle of that line up would see alot of good pitches

bc2k
11-20-2002, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
another team that has the cash and could be a player in the thomas sweepstakes is anaheim..they have brad fullmer as DH...he made 3.75 million last year and is looking for 5 million in arbitration and he will probably get it....there is alot of positive talk on the angels board about getting thomas...their fans want to see the angels move fullmer and go after thomas...

if they could get frank for maybe 5 million plus incentives and find a way to move fullmer..they would be crazy not to..frank in the middle of that line up would see alot of good pitches \

I find that quite ironic. KW would like to move Thomas so the Sox can be more Angel-like where a group of no-names unite as a team. And now the Angels want Thomas.

RKMeibalane
11-20-2002, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
\

I find that quite ironic. KW would like to move Thomas so the Sox can be more Angel-like where a group of no-names unite as a team. And now the Angels want Thomas.

No, bc2k, KW would like to move Thomas because it allows the Sox to retain money, which Reinsdorf will happily pocket. Quit trying to portray Thomas as the anti-Christ. Your act is getting old.

voodoochile
11-20-2002, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
No, bc2k, KW would like to move Thomas because it allows the Sox to retain money, which Reinsdorf will happily pocket. Quit trying to portray Thomas as the anti-Christ. Your act is getting old.

I didn't get that off of his post. I thought he was commenting on KW and KW's perception of the situation.

Iwritecode
11-20-2002, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
No, bc2k, KW would like to move Thomas because it allows the Sox to retain money, which Reinsdorf will happily pocket. Quit trying to portray Thomas as the anti-Christ. Your act is getting old.

If Thomas was the anti-Christ why would the World Champion Angels want him?

and why is this starting to sound like a religous debate...? :?:

NewyorkSoxFan
11-20-2002, 05:15 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Iwritecode
[B]If Thomas was the anti-Christ why would the World Champion Angels want him?

Don't worry the beloved Big Hurt will be back next summer. He working out harder than ever, and he even wants to play the field again. Let's see what we get for a pissed off Big hurt. :angry:


NYSF

Jjav829
11-20-2002, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
No, bc2k, KW would like to move Thomas because it allows the Sox to retain money, which Reinsdorf will happily pocket. Quit trying to portray Thomas as the anti-Christ. Your act is getting old.

You know, I've gotta say this. As much as bc2k may try to portray Thomas as the anti-Christ (or so you say), you try to portray him as Christ himself. Your act is equally just as old. Give it up. Im tired of the seemingly obligatory references in every post to Thomas being the greatest hitter in White Sox history.

Really, if Thomas killed someone tommorrow would you post something like... "Frank Thomas can not go to jail! The greatest hitter in White Sox history cannot be behind bars!"?

NewyorkSoxFan
11-20-2002, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
You know, I've gotta say this. As much as bc2k may try to portray Thomas as the anti-Christ (or so you say), you try to portray him as Christ himself. Your act is equally just as old. Give it up. Im tired of the seemingly obligatory references in every post to Thomas being the greatest hitter in White Sox history.

Really, if Thomas killed someone tommorrow would you post something like... "Frank Thomas can not go to jail! The greatest hitter in White Sox history cannot be behind bars!"?

Bravo!!
I second this motion. No one finds it interesting that their is maybe 2 teams that will even give him a sniff. So everybody is wrong about Frank. Now Frank grants an interview to gammons to try to get his name out their.

NYSF

RKMeibalane
11-20-2002, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
You know, I've gotta say this. As much as bc2k may try to portray Thomas as the anti-Christ (or so you say), you try to portray him as Christ himself. Your act is equally just as old. Give it up. Im tired of the seemingly obligatory references in every post to Thomas being the greatest hitter in White Sox history.

Really, if Thomas killed someone tommorrow would you post something like... "Frank Thomas can not go to jail! The greatest hitter in White Sox history cannot be behind bars!"?

You have got to be kidding me. I do not include references to Thomas being the "greatest hitter in franchise history" in all of my posts. I have said that before, as have several others. However, I do realize that Frank's value as of this moment is questionable, especially since he cannot play the field often, if at all. There is also the queston of whether or not he will be able to establish consistency next season, wherever he ends up.

Please do not insult me by assuming that I will defend anything and everything Thomas does. I know full well that he has made an ass of himself in the past, and I don't defend him when he behaves improperly. Unlike bc2k, I am capable of presenting objective arguments when discussing the Chcago White Sox. Do not group me with him. Furthermore, you know nothing about me, so do not speak to me as though I am five years old.

Jjav829
11-20-2002, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
You have got to be kidding me. I do not include references to Thomas being the "greatest hitter in franchise history" in all of my posts. I have said that before, as have several others. However, I do realize that Frank's value as of this moment is questionable, especially since he cannot play the field often, if at all. There is also the queston of whether or not he will be able to establish consistency next season, wherever he ends up.

Please do not insult me by assuming that I will defend anything and everything Thomas does. I know full well that he has made an ass of himself in the past, and I don't defend him when he behaves improperly. Unlike bc2k, I am capable of presenting objective arguments when discussing the Chcago White Sox. Do not group me with him. Furthermore, you know nothing about me, so do not speak to me as though I am five years old.

All you do is defend Frank. I have never, never seen you say one bad thing about Frank. Anytime something happens with him you quickly jump to his defense. Frank is criticized too much, Frank gets a bad rap, everyone hates Frank, boohoo. Your one of these people who acts as if Frank Thomas can do nothing wrong. It's just old. You may not even realize that your doing this, and it is really annoying, so I figured I would point it out.

BTW, what in the hell does me not knowing anything about you, have to do with me telling you how annoying your posts can be?

voodoochile
11-20-2002, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
Bravo!!
I second this motion. No one finds it interesting that their is maybe 2 teams that will even give him a sniff. So everybody is wrong about Frank. Now Frank grants an interview to gammons to try to get his name out their.

NYSF

Well, some of that is due to Frank's bad press, but more of it is probably due to his salary demands. I do understand that there are not many teams who will offer the $40M guaranteed he has coming to him - more so in today's economic climate.

I am not saying I agree with those teams, but hey - I'm a fan...

RKMeibalane
11-20-2002, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
All you do is defend Frank. I have never, never seen you say one bad thing about Frank. Anytime something happens with him you quickly jump to his defense. Frank is criticized too much, Frank gets a bad rap, everyone hates Frank, boohoo. Your one of these people who acts as if Frank Thomas can do nothing wrong. It's just old. You may not even realize that your doing this, and it is really annoying, so I figured I would point it out.

BTW, what in the hell does me not knowing anything about you, have to do with me telling you how annoying your posts can be?

I have not always defended Frank. When Konerko criticized him, I didn't defend him, because he was wrong not to take part in pregame drills. I also did not defend him for not sliding into home plate numerous times during the season. In fact, I made fun of him for it. I do not act as though Frank Thomas can do no wrong. Do not insult me by saying otherwise, because you have read but a small fraction of my posts since I started visiting this board.

I do defend Frank on a regular basis, but so do several others. I am also not the only one who has criticized bc2k. Now, I think it would be better for both of us if we let this matter drop. I don't have a problem with you, and I hope you don't have one with me.

RedPinStripes
11-20-2002, 10:23 PM
Careful Jjav,

Some might call you "A closet Cub fan "if you dont worship the ground Frank walks on.

Great post BTW.

guillen4life13
11-20-2002, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I do defend Frank on a regular basis, but so do several others. I am also not the only one who has criticized bc2k. Now, I think it would be better for both of us if we let this matter drop. I don't have a problem with you, and I hope you don't have one with me.

good call.

and i could also be accused of defending every move that frank makes, etc. i'm not gonna lie to you: most of you guys know a helluva lot more about frank and his past than i do. i never really started following this team closely until the 2000 playoffs, when i was 12 years old. all i can say is that i've seen frank hit many times before, and i remember the newspaper headlines and stories from the early-mid '90s that praised and respected him for his skills, and didn't really talk about what he said. do i support his walkout pre 2001? hell no, but i will say that he ended up coming back, and had he not been injured, might have produced at the same clip as he did in 2000.

jeremyb1
11-21-2002, 01:12 PM
found this on the sportsline webpage:

Thomas, however, has told several of his teammates that he has received "several interesting offers" from other clubs. Baltimore and Boston were rumored to be teams most interested in Thomas, but the 34-year-old veteran said there are more than that.

i have to think if frank had really received any deals that were at all comperable to what were paying him he wouldve lept on them. based on whats been reported id actually be suprised to hear hes received any concrete deals at all so far. it sounded like hed only talked to baltimore. youd have to think any worthwhile deals frank would receive would be heavily based on incentives which would allow him to make nearly as much as hes making with us if he performs at an mvp level.

White Stocking
11-21-2002, 01:57 PM
You're right on, Frank recently came out and stated he wishes to play the field again (Suntimes). However, this is probably more of a hail mary to any N.L. teams that might take a chance on him. I have heard metion of Ron Schueler getting the GM job in Boston, and if you read enough into it, he might bring the Hurt to wear a Red Sox jersey.

voodoochile
11-21-2002, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by White Stocking
You're right on, Frank recently came out and stated he wishes to play the field again (Suntimes). However, this is probably more of a hail mary to any N.L. teams that might take a chance on him. I have heard metion of Ron Schueler getting the GM job in Boston, and if you read enough into it, he might bring the Hurt to wear a Red Sox jersey.

Welcome to WSI, White Stocking...

I think your are correct in the playing the field ploy, but why not? I mean if he can get into top shape, why would an NL team rule him out as a first baseman? How many 1B in any league are there for their defense anyway?

bc2k
11-21-2002, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
No, bc2k, KW would like to move Thomas because it allows the Sox to retain money, which Reinsdorf will happily pocket. Quit trying to portray Thomas as the anti-Christ. Your act is getting old.

Woah, I leave for one day and this thread heats up like Frank Thomas once the Sox are eliminated from the playoffs.

In my previous post about the Angels, I was not trying to sound anti-Thomas. I honestly thought I was writing in an unbiased light. But perhaps since I usually don't think very highly of Frank, maybe I unconsciously made a negative comment about Thomas.

Or perhaps because I've sputterd an uncountable number of anti-frank posts in the past, many WSI posters assume every post that bc2k makes about Thomas must be anti-Thomas.

hold2dibber
11-21-2002, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Woah, I leave for one day and this thread heats up like Frank Thomas once the Sox are eliminated from the playoffs.

Ha! I'm about as big of a Big Hurt supporter as there is, but that's funny.

White Stocking
11-21-2002, 03:48 PM
I agree with you and thanks for the welcome. In the White Sox case, Pauly is obvioulsy the better fielder so I don't want to see any plays taken away from Konerko, but if Frank took off to another team who wasn't as solidified at first - he could play the field. Frank was never a terrible defensive player, he managed for ten years and is actually very good at picking balls out of the dirt, but his downfall is throwing accuracy. Everytime he has to turn a 3-6 Double Play I cringe. If he gets his swing back like he's capable - he'll ofset the 10-15 erros he would most likely commit. Speaking of defensive liablities - I'm assuming the Sox are going back to Valentine full-time at Short?? He's got to get that average up this year....



QUOTE]Originally posted by voodoochile
Welcome to WSI, White Stocking...

I think your are correct in the playing the field ploy, but why not? I mean if he can get into top shape, why would an NL team rule him out as a first baseman? How many 1B in any league are there for their defense anyway? [/QUOTE]

Dadawg_77
11-21-2002, 04:58 PM
Here is a question, how many times does a 3-6-3 happen in a MLB game? That is Frank major weakness in the field, and there is the old saying the ball will find your weak spot. But what is the percentage of plays that a first baseman needs to throw the ball?

RichH55
11-21-2002, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Here is a question, how many times does a 3-6-3 happen in a MLB game? That is Frank major weakness in the field, and there is the old saying the ball will find your weak spot. But what is the percentage of plays that a first baseman needs to throw the ball?


Very few times(IMO)....and Frank would convert some of those as well...so take that for whats its worth

cornball
11-21-2002, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Here is a question, how many times does a 3-6-3 happen in a MLB game? That is Frank major weakness in the field, and there is the old saying the ball will find your weak spot. But what is the percentage of plays that a first baseman needs to throw the ball?


You need a first baseman that can throw for the obvious reason of fielding a bunt, turning the double play and the first baseman is the cutoff man for the outfield.

When Frank was having arm troubles a few years ago....practically every game when he was in the field it was a factor.

But he will be back, no team will want to pay his salary.