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jeremyb1
11-17-2002, 11:43 PM
from phil rogers:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-021116rogersbakercolumn,0,6879372.column?coll=cs%2 Dcubs%2Dheadlines

there is only one thing we can say definitively about Baylor's approach: He'll get the absolute most out of Wood, Prior and Clement.

No manager pushes his starters harder.

In San Francisco, Baker's starters threw 120 or more pitches more times than any other team in the majors in three of the last four seasons. The only exception came in 2001, when Arizona workhorses Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling had 18 extended outings between them.

During these four seasons, Livan Hernandez and the other Giants starters worked 120-plus pitches 87 times. That's 50 more than the Cubs, who have proceeded with caution since Wood tore a ligament in his elbow after being ridden hard in 1998, his rookie-of-the-year season.

It would seem to make sense to pull back after compromising such a terrific talent early in his career. That's why it seemed especially alarmingóor just one "L" stop short of totally whacked outówhen Kimm allowed Prior to throw 136 pitches in a meaningless game last August.

But there's an odd thing about the workload Baker has given the Giants' starters. It seemed to make them stronger.


and the fact that they're stronger is the reason that livan hernandez now throws 88 when he used to throw 95? i would've guessed that it was because he was horribly overworked. roger's writing here also fails to realize the difference between reuter throwing 120 pitches near 40 and a young pitcher like prior or zambrano throwing that many pitches. i thought nothing in the world could make me as gleeful as when kerry wood had tommy john surgery but if prior had it that would make me even happier and now its a very realisitic possibility. don't worry...he has good mechanics so his arm is invincible. hahaha.

DVG
11-18-2002, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
from phil rogers:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-021116rogersbakercolumn,0,6879372.column?coll=cs%2 Dcubs%2Dheadlines



i thought nothing in the world could make me as gleeful as when kerry wood had tommy john surgery but if prior had it that would make me even happier and now its a very realisitic possibility. don't worry...he has good mechanics so his arm is invincible. hahaha.


Let me get this straight...you actually are happy that Kerry Wood
suffered a career-threatening injury and you also want Mark
Prior to do the same? What kind of sick, immature idiot are you,
anyway? Grow up, little boy.

jeremyb1
11-18-2002, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by DVG
Let me get this straight...you actually are happy that Kerry Wood
suffered a career-threatening injury and you also want Mark
Prior to do the same? What kind of sick, immature idiot are you,
anyway? Grow up, little boy.

oh give me a break. its not like i wished death or serious injury on kerry wood. he tore a ligament in his elbow that meant he couldn't pitch effectively for two years. big deal. would you say the same thing if i wished kerry wood had a bad season next year? how is that any different? what do you want me to say? i love the cubs and hopefully they'll win the world series next year so that someone in this town will win a world series? please. its just a game. its not like its some complete random occurance anyways. its cause and effect. people in the cubs organization decided to let kerry wood throw 120 pitches per game when he was 20 years old and the result of that kind of wear and tear on a young pitchers arm will result in damage. what do you want me to cry for a drunk driver that runs into a tree and midly bruises his knee? there are consequences to people's actions. maybe kerry wood isn't to blame and its only the cubs organization that abused him but how sorry can you really feel for anyone getting paid millions of dollars to play baseball? even if a player on our own team like buehrle had a serious injury (knock on wood), i would feel bad first and foremost because of the effects it would have on the team's record. i would only feel badly for buehrle on a personal level because i happen to like him since he plays for my team and i think he's a good guy. if albert belle was hurt when he was on the sox would i feel bad for him on a personal level? honestly, no, i wouldn't. he's not a very good person as he chases after kids with his car and throws baseballs at reporters and he made millions of dollars playing baseball. forgive me if i don't cry a river of tears for him or for kerry wood.

MarkEdward
11-18-2002, 01:47 PM
Most of Baker's staff in San Francisco was veterans, so it' OK to push them a little farther. I'm sure he won't take the same approach with the Cubs' pitchers.

Oh, and wishing injury on a player (even a Cubbie) is really low.

Jjav829
11-18-2002, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
oh give me a break. its not like i wished death or serious injury on kerry wood. he tore a ligament in his elbow that meant he couldn't pitch effectively for two years. big deal. would you say the same thing if i wished kerry wood had a bad season next year? how is that any different? what do you want me to say? i love the cubs and hopefully they'll win the world series next year so that someone in this town will win a world series? please. its just a game. its not like its some complete random occurance anyways. its cause and effect. people in the cubs organization decided to let kerry wood throw 120 pitches per game when he was 20 years old and the result of that kind of wear and tear on a young pitchers arm will result in damage. what do you want me to cry for a drunk driver that runs into a tree and midly bruises his knee? there are consequences to people's actions. maybe kerry wood isn't to blame and its only the cubs organization that abused him but how sorry can you really feel for anyone getting paid millions of dollars to play baseball? even if a player on our own team like buehrle had a serious injury (knock on wood), i would feel bad first and foremost because of the effects it would have on the team's record. i would only feel badly for buehrle on a personal level because i happen to like him since he plays for my team and i think he's a good guy. if albert belle was hurt when he was on the sox would i feel bad for him on a personal level? honestly, no, i wouldn't. he's not a very good person as he chases after kids with his car and throws baseballs at reporters and he made millions of dollars playing baseball. forgive me if i don't cry a river of tears for him or for kerry wood.

There is a big difference between not feeling sorry for someone who has an injury, and wishing for someone to be injured. No one says you have to cry for Kerry Wood because he was injured, and that if Mark Prior is injured you have to cry for him either. But to say that you are happy because they are injured? This is the reason that there are so many crazy fans. Let's take this further. Would you be happy if Mark Prior was paralyzed, knowing that he wouldn't pitch again? What about if Sammy Sosa was killed tommorrow? Would that make you "gleeful"?

That puts you right in there with the classless fans from Philly and all other teams. I can understand disliking a team, and I dislike the Cubs as much as most Sox fans. But to wish for a guy to be hurt, or be happy when he is hurt, especially with a serious injury? That puts you right in with the Eagles fans who cheered when Michael Irvin was carted off the field, when he could have been paralyzed.

This is a game. You might want to learn that. Dislike the team, not the players. You are talking about real people here. Real people who when they take their uniforms off have to go home to their spouse and children. Ask yourself this. How would you feel if someone else was happy because your child/parent (depending on how old you are) was injured tommorrow, and someone came and laughed at you because of it? Or said they were happy because your loved one was hurt? I would suspect that you would probably get pretty pissed off.

Root against a team. Root against any player you want, but don't bring this crap about being happy that a player suffers a serious injury.

Vsahajpal
11-18-2002, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Most of Baker's staff in San Francisco was veterans, so it' OK to push them a little farther. I'm sure he won't take the same approach with the Cubs' pitchers.




That is correct, had Phil Rogers done a l'il research he'd have not written the column. When Dusty has had a young starter (Joe Nathan, Ryan Jensen) he's been quite cautious.

Iwritecode
11-18-2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
That is correct, had Phil Rogers done a l'il research he'd have not written the column. When Dusty has had a young starter (Joe Nathan, Ryan Jensen) he's been quite cautious.

:moron

Pfft! Stats and research are for wussies. Unbiased and unobjective journolists like me don't need that stuff. The "facts" that I make up work just as well...

Cheryl
11-18-2002, 02:30 PM
How long do you think Dusty will last. He'll come in and act like a real manager. SamMe won't put up with that, and Baker will be gone. Just like Baylor.

bc2k
11-18-2002, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
from phil rogers:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-021116rogersbakercolumn,0,6879372.column?coll=cs%2 Dcubs%2Dheadlinesi thought nothing in the world could make me as gleeful as when kerry wood had tommy john surgery but if prior had it that would make me even happier and now its a very realisitic possibility. don't worry...he has good mechanics so his arm is invincible. hahaha.

I agree with you jeremy. I hate the Cubs. I want the Cubs to fail every season. Sometimes, in order for them to fail, their good players have to get injured. And since my ultimate goal is to see them fail, I'm happy as well when the premier Cubs players get injured. It's not like we are the ones hurting the Cubs players. We are not the cause of their injuries.

voodoochile
11-18-2002, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
I agree with you jeremy. I hate the Cubs. I want the Cubs to fail every season. Sometimes, in order for them to fail, their good players have to get injured. And since my ultimate goal is to see them fail, I'm happy as well when the premier Cubs players get injured. It's not like we are the ones hurting the Cubs players. We are not the cause of their injuries.

Even so, any fan with an ounce of class knows that you don't root for nor celebrate another teams injuries, even more so when it has no bearing on your teams performance. Rooting for a defense to knockout the opposing QB in a football game is one thing. Most people I know will do that so long as it doesn't involve permanent injury to said QB, but what the heck do we gain as Sox fans if Baker ruins Prior's arm? Is it good for the game? Does it help the Sox?

No, it only makes small minded people feel better about themselves. Can't win the big one? Root for your rivals to get injured... *** is that all about?

guillen4life13
11-18-2002, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by bc2k


I agree with you jeremy. I hate the Cubs. I want the Cubs to fail every season. Sometimes, in order for them to fail, their good players have to get injured. And since my ultimate goal is to see them fail, I'm happy as well when the premier Cubs players get injured. It's not like we are the ones hurting the Cubs players. We are not the cause of their injuries.

I can't believe this. No matter how much glory these guys get, these guys are real people. You hate the cubs... that's fine. don't hate their players. they've done nothing to hurt you.

I'm sure you got pissed off when many cubs fans gloated about frank thomas' injury. oh wait, you hate frank thomas, and were probably happy about that injury as well. hmmm.

i don't think you'd be happy if I, or the people on this board were to gloat and show happiness at an injury you suffer.

Here is what you have to understand: these baseball players are doing their job (and they just happen to have an extremely fun, and high paying job). They may hate their team as well, but they have to do their job, so they do. because you don't like their employer, you would be happy for them to tear all of the ligaments in their body? I don't understand you.

there might be some people on this board who might personally relate to what i'm about to say here: you are the type of person who would be happy because thousands of people are losing their jobs(anderson, enron, lucent technologies, etc.) you would say, "well, their employers are corrupt, so all of their employees must be *******s also! to the poorhouse they go! whoopee!"

This may not be how you feel, but i'm just applying the same concept to it. or better yet, here's another example.

I bet you would be all for nuking cuba because of fidel castro, their communist leader. meanwhile, castro would fly elsewhere, survive the blast, and live on, while all of the civilians of cuba would die off.

that is my interpretation of your logic.

WinningUgly!
11-18-2002, 04:36 PM
I never root for sCrUB injuries...it's more fun when they lose at full strength! http://www.themorlocks.com/talk/images/smiles/gene.gif

jeremyb1
11-18-2002, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
There is a big difference between not feeling sorry for someone who has an injury, and wishing for someone to be injured. No one says you have to cry for Kerry Wood because he was injured, and that if Mark Prior is injured you have to cry for him either. But to say that you are happy because they are injured? This is the reason that there are so many crazy fans. Let's take this further. Would you be happy if Mark Prior was paralyzed, knowing that he wouldn't pitch again? What about if Sammy Sosa was killed tommorrow? Would that make you "gleeful"?


that was exactly my point. tommy john surgery is not a serious injury, it is only a serious baseball injury. if i hate the lakers and wish that kobe bryant has an ingrown toe nail and has to sit out a game so that the lakers lose is that some horrible act on my part? it was said that most agree that its not a big deal to root for a quarterback to be knocked out of a game as long as the injury is not career threatening. i wouldn't root for kerry wood to get hit in the face with a line drive because that's a very dangerous potentially career threatening which can cause serious pain and misery. tommy john surgery is different. it merely prevents a player to throw the ball as he's otherwise capable for 2 years. its not a serious injury and if anyone other than someone who must throw for a living had the injury they probably wouldn't even have it operated on. it can be prevented in most cases if teams keep their young pitchers on a pitch count and make sure they use good safe mechanics. its not an issue of me wishing the player harm on a personal level its an issue of me hoping that the cubs struggle as a team. i don't think that's completely unreasonable. the player still gets paid his salary and recovery is quite good these days. i wouldn't wish a situation like sirotka has been placed in on anyone where multiple surgeries are required and they are not recovered. i don't think its morally repugnant for me to wish that a pitcher can't pitch for a season and a half. its a part of the game. we've paid the price for our '00 season since parque, baldwin, howry, and sirotka all had surgery. for the most part we didn't even abuse these pitchers. i don't think its unreasonable for me to wish that prior developes an injury if the cubs abuse him. i wish that for any team with the exception of ours simply because i have so much invested in the white sox. however, i think that for the sake of the pitchers teams have to learn at some point that its incredibly irresponsible to throw young pitchers a great deal and that if they abuse their pitchers they will develop injuries. that's the way it works. you can't avoid the consequences of your actions.

voodoochile
11-18-2002, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
that was exactly my point. tommy john surgery is not a serious injury, it is only a serious baseball injury. if i hate the lakers and wish that kobe bryant has an ingrown toe nail and has to sit out a game so that the lakers lose is that some horrible act on my part? it was said that most agree that its not a big deal to root for a quarterback to be knocked out of a game as long as the injury is not career threatening. i wouldn't root for kerry wood to get hit in the face with a line drive because that's a very dangerous potentially career threatening which can cause serious pain and misery. tommy john surgery is different. it merely prevents a player to throw the ball as he's otherwise capable for 2 years. its not a serious injury and if anyone other than someone who must throw for a living had the injury they probably wouldn't even have it operated on. it can be prevented in most cases if teams keep their young pitchers on a pitch count and make sure they use good safe mechanics. its not an issue of me wishing the player harm on a personal level its an issue of me hoping that the cubs struggle as a team. i don't think that's completely unreasonable. the player still gets paid his salary and recovery is quite good these days. i wouldn't wish a situation like sirotka has been placed in on anyone where multiple surgeries are required and they are not recovered. i don't think its morally repugnant for me to wish that a pitcher can't pitch for a season and a half. its a part of the game. we've paid the price for our '00 season since parque, baldwin, howry, and sirotka all had surgery. for the most part we didn't even abuse these pitchers. i don't think its unreasonable for me to wish that prior developes an injury if the cubs abuse him. i wish that for any team with the exception of ours simply because i have so much invested in the white sox. however, i think that for the sake of the pitchers teams have to learn at some point that its incredibly irresponsible to throw young pitchers a great deal and that if they abuse their pitchers they will develop injuries. that's the way it works. you can't avoid the consequences of your actions.

Oh, I see, because the Sox had a lot of injuries, it is okay to wish for it on another team. You're wrong, plain and simple. Rooting for potentially career threatening injuries for players who play the game you profess to love is assinine. The fact that you see nothing wrong with it is worse. Any injury that requires 1-2 years to recover from is career threatening. Just because you believe it is now "just another injury" doesn't make you right.

Plain and simple... grow up.

Jjav829
11-18-2002, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
that was exactly my point. tommy john surgery is not a serious injury, it is only a serious baseball injury. i wouldn't root for kerry wood to get hit in the face with a line drive because that's a very dangerous potentially career threatening which can cause serious pain and misery. tommy john surgery is different. it merely prevents a player to throw the ball as he's otherwise capable for 2 years. its not a serious injury and if anyone other than someone who must throw for a living had the injury they probably wouldn't even have it operated on. it can be prevented in most cases if teams keep their young pitchers on a pitch count and make sure they use good safe mechanics. its not an issue of me wishing the player harm on a personal level its an issue of me hoping that the cubs struggle as a team.

Your still rooting for a player to suffer a serious injury. Tommy John surgery isn't exactly a minor injury. Ask Jeremi Gonzalez. You are talking about an injury that does come with the potential of never pitching again. Yes it has become more successful, but your still talking about a big risk. So your basically rooting for the person to suffer an injury that carries of risk of them not being able to perform at their job ever again. Would you want someone hoping that you get injured and can never perform your job again?

Rooting for a player to struggle IS different from rooting for a player to be injured. If you hate the Cubs or any team you root against the name of the front of the jersey, not the name on the back.

Daver
11-18-2002, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
That is correct, had Phil Rogers done a l'il research he'd have not written the column. When Dusty has had a young starter (Joe Nathan, Ryan Jensen) he's been quite cautious.

Pitchers don't pitch enough these days anyway...........

jeremyb1
11-18-2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Oh, I see, because the Sox had a lot of injuries, it is okay to wish for it on another team. You're wrong, plain and simple. Rooting for potentially career threatening injuries for players who play the game you profess to love is assinine. The fact that you see nothing wrong with it is worse. Any injury that requires 1-2 years to recover from is career threatening. Just because you believe it is now "just another injury" doesn't make you right.

Plain and simple... grow up.

if that's the way you feel about it that's fine with me. you won't see me jumping from the stands and attacking kerry wood with a crowbar anytime soon. i don't control whether or not he is injured the player and the team does. i'm not going to lie and say i think its unfair or that it upsets me when the cubs mistreat their players and suffer the consequences. i'm not going to get any pleasure about the minimal suffering it causes the cubs players but i will enjoy any suffering it causes the cubs organization because they're responsible. that's the way i feel and if it upsets you that's unfortunate but we don't all have the same morals. i don't feel like i'd be crossing the line unless i were to wish a player serious physical harm which seriously undermines the quality of their personal life not just their professional life. you draw it elsewhere. so be it.

voodoochile
11-18-2002, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
if that's the way you feel about it that's fine with me. you won't see me jumping from the stands and attacking kerry wood with a crowbar anytime soon. i don't control whether or not he is injured the player and the team does. i'm not going to lie and say i think its unfair or that it upsets me when the cubs mistreat their players and suffer the consequences. i'm not going to get any pleasure about the minimal suffering it causes the cubs players but i will enjoy any suffering it causes the cubs organization because they're responsible. that's the way i feel and if it upsets you that's unfortunate but we don't all have the same morals. i don't feel like i'd be crossing the line unless i were to wish a player serious physical harm which seriously undermines the quality of their personal life not just their professional life. you draw it elsewhere. so be it.

See, I think that losing the ability to perform a job that you love enough to become good enough to do it on a professional level can be devastating to a person. More so when they are young and just starting to come into their own. You're right not everyone shares the same morals, but if you took a poll of sports fans, I would bet you are in the distinct minority. Just the responses to this thread alone should tell you that, but I probably won't make you change your mind, only hope to make you think...

jeremyb1
11-18-2002, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
See, I think that losing the ability to perform a job that you love enough to become good enough to do it on a professional level can be devastating to a person. More so when they are young and just starting to come into their own. You're right not everyone shares the same morals, but if you took a poll of sports fans, I would bet you are in the distinct minority. Just the responses to this thread alone should tell you that, but I probably won't make you change your mind, only hope to make you think...

you're right that there's a chance it could end a players career and i don't wish that for anyone but its rather unlikely. if you gave me the power to decide whether or not someone like mark prior would have tommy john surgery i wouldn't decide that he would have to hurt his arm. however, i don't have that power and knowing that his chance of recovery would be very high and that it would hurt the cubs chances of success i would not be unhappy with that result by any means.

jeremyb1
11-19-2002, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13

there might be some people on this board who might personally relate to what i'm about to say here: you are the type of person who would be happy because thousands of people are losing their jobs(anderson, enron, lucent technologies, etc.) you would say, "well, their employers are corrupt, so all of their employees must be *******s also! to the poorhouse they go! whoopee!"

This may not be how you feel, but i'm just applying the same concept to it. or better yet, here's another example.

I bet you would be all for nuking cuba because of fidel castro, their communist leader. meanwhile, castro would fly elsewhere, survive the blast, and live on, while all of the civilians of cuba would die off.

that is my interpretation of your logic.

no offense but i think your interpretations of my logic are among the most illogical, convoluted analogies i've ever heard. i don't consider there to be even a slight similarity to a baseball player like prior who has made 15 million dollars by the age of 22 and has an injury which will keep him out for 18 months with a less than 10 percent chance he won't pitch again and an employee working for enron in a position such as a secretary making only 30,000 a year who is forced to go on unemployment because he or she worked for a corrupt boss. prior does have control over how much he throws, boras has been known to complain to teams when they overuse his clients putting their carreer in jeopardy.

i also think its highly inaccurate and it poor taste to continue to compare my remarks to someone wishing for or even participating in someone else's death especially when i said in the first post i made clarifying my original post " its not like i wished death or serious injury on kerry wood." again, any comparison between the death of poor helpless citizens in cuba and a 2 year layoff of a millionare baseball player is completely assinine.

guillen4life13
11-19-2002, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
no offense but i think your interpretations of my logic are among the most illogical, convoluted analogies i've ever heard. i don't consider there to be even a slight similarity to a baseball player like prior who has made 15 million dollars by the age of 22 and has an injury which will keep him out for 18 months with a less than 10 percent chance he won't pitch again and an employee working for enron in a position such as a secretary making only 30,000 a year who is forced to go on unemployment because he or she worked for a corrupt boss. prior does have control over how much he throws, boras has been known to complain to teams when they overuse his clients putting their carreer in jeopardy.

i also think its highly inaccurate and it poor taste to continue to compare my remarks to someone wishing for or even participating in someone else's death especially when i said in the first post i made clarifying my original post " its not like i wished death or serious injury on kerry wood." again, any comparison between the death of poor helpless citizens in cuba and a 2 year layoff of a millionare baseball player is completely assinine.

ok. i understand exactly where you're coming from, and a i have a couple things to say.

1) since i wrote that post, you have said much more that may make me have a different opinion of what you were saying. in other words, sorry.

2) i took what i interpreted to be your ideals, inflated them, and applied them to other situations. again, at the time, that is what i thought from seeing what you had posted.

i'm not going to write any in depth things about my opinion, except to say that i'm behind voodoo on this one all the way for the most part. again, sorry.

jeremyb1
11-19-2002, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
ok. i understand exactly where you're coming from, and a i have a couple things to say.

1) since i wrote that post, you have said much more that may make me have a different opinion of what you were saying. in other words, sorry.

2) i took what i interpreted to be your ideals, inflated them, and applied them to other situations. again, at the time, that is what i thought from seeing what you had posted.

i'm not going to write any in depth things about my opinion, except to say that i'm behind voodoo on this one all the way for the most part. again, sorry.

not a problem. i don't let debates online get to me anymore i just look at them as good fun more than anything else. no hard feelings whatsoever.

pudge
11-21-2002, 12:37 PM
Okay, I just have to add that this whole thread is really sad... as much as I like to think the Sox have the hip alternative fans of the Chicago baseball scene, I can see that the Sox are like all other teams - they have a lot of idiotic fans.... wishing for an injury to a guy like Wood or Prior is so wrong I can't even begin to describe it... these guys are great pitchers, and above and beyond the idea of the Sox winning a title, I love the game of baseball and the history it has.... I love to watch a guy like Wood or Prior pitch, even if he is on my most-hated team. I don't want to see the Cubs win a World Series, but I give them credit for getting guys like Wood and Prior. I can root for a guy like Prior to become a HOF pitcher and root for the Cubs to suck at the same time, but that's because I'm a mature individual who has respect for the game the exceptional athletes that play it. Enough said.

jeremyb1
11-21-2002, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by pudge
Okay, I just have to add that this whole thread is really sad... as much as I like to think the Sox have the hip alternative fans of the Chicago baseball scene, I can see that the Sox are like all other teams - they have a lot of idiotic fans.... wishing for an injury to a guy like Wood or Prior is so wrong I can't even begin to describe it... these guys are great pitchers, and above and beyond the idea of the Sox winning a title, I love the game of baseball and the history it has.... I love to watch a guy like Wood or Prior pitch, even if he is on my most-hated team. I don't want to see the Cubs win a World Series, but I give them credit for getting guys like Wood and Prior. I can root for a guy like Prior to become a HOF pitcher and root for the Cubs to suck at the same time, but that's because I'm a mature individual who has respect for the game the exceptional athletes that play it. Enough said.

you prove your tolenance as a person by calling me an immature idiot which of course i appretiate. iím glad you can be as evenhanded as you are. baseball is a little bit more emotional for me. i love my team with all my heart and i hate our rivals. i have strong feelings. characterizing me as some kind of a soulless moron who would throw batteries at jd drew or jump onto the field and attack tom gamboa is a leap. you can worry about me all you want but i think its a waste of time. whatís the big deal about me disliking players on opposing teams? in some ways thatís the point of baseball to me, to have deepseated feelings about players you truly like and dislike. i happen to dislike the cubs and as a result most all of their players. i donít really think thatís a problem. iím supposed to dislike the cubs as a sox fan. iím not going to try to hurt prior. i wouldnít be disrespectful enough to go to a cubs came and start screaming that i hope he blows out his arm. whatís the big deal about my personal feeling towards mark prior? maybe i donít appretiate the game of baseball as much as you. thatís fine with me. i place my love of the whitesox far ahead of my love of the game. i can guarantee you youíll never see me at the park taunting my teams players. if i had a dollar for everytime i went to a sox game last year and sat near fans taunting royce clayton or even a player like julio ramirez... you tell me what the bigger problem is.

voodoochile
11-21-2002, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
you prove your tolenance as a person by calling me an immature idiot which of course i appretiate. iím glad you can be as evenhanded as you are. baseball is a little bit more emotional for me. i love my team with all my heart and i hate our rivals. i have strong feelings. characterizing me as some kind of a soulless moron who would throw batteries at jd drew or jump onto the field and attack tom gamboa is a leap. you can worry about me all you want but i think its a waste of time. whatís the big deal about me disliking players on opposing teams? in some ways thatís the point of baseball to me, to have deepseated feelings about players you truly like and dislike. i happen to dislike the cubs and as a result most all of their players. i donít really think thatís a problem. iím supposed to dislike the cubs as a sox fan. iím not going to try to hurt prior. i wouldnít be disrespectful enough to go to a cubs came and start screaming that i hope he blows out his arm. whatís the big deal about my personal feeling towards mark prior? maybe i donít appretiate the game of baseball as much as you. thatís fine with me. i place my love of the whitesox far ahead of my love of the game. i can guarantee you youíll never see me at the park taunting my teams players. if i had a dollar for everytime i went to a sox game last year and sat near fans taunting royce clayton or even a player like julio ramirez... you tell me what the bigger problem is.

Can you please show where he used the comment about you being the equivalent of Lique? Heck, show the comment where he says you like to throw batteries. Heck, show where he calls you a soulless moron. Heck, show how his comments were intentionally directed at you - after all there are other people who agree with you in this thread, albeit only a few.

Me thinks you are to sensative. It is obvious that many people disagree with you, perhaps it is time you got over it and let it drop, but that just my opinion and is no way intended to represent a comment from a moderator, strictly from me...

jeremyb1
11-21-2002, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Can you please show where he used the comment about you being the equivalent of Lique? Heck, show the comment where he says you like to throw batteries. Heck, show where he calls you a soulless moron. Heck, show how his comments were intentionally directed at you - after all there are other people who agree with you in this thread, albeit only a few.

Me thinks you are to sensative. It is obvious that many people disagree with you, perhaps it is time you got over it and let it drop, but that just my opinion and is no way intended to represent a comment from a moderator, strictly from me...

well i assumed since iím the one that has about a dozen posts in this thread (i only counted one person agreeing with me maybe missed the rest) and the one who started the thread that i was being addressed. if thatís incorrect he can feel free to correct me and iíll retract my entire post.

he says that in light of the ďwrongĒ comments made in this thread (referring specifically to my comments) that he can see that the sox have idiotic fans like other teams. it was someone else in a different post that referred to ďthe fans in philadelphiaĒ. some of it was obviously an exageration on my part if going only by the comments he made in his post but what i said was in line with what others have posted in this thread and its pretty undeniable that he refers to me as immature and an idiot and by referring to the fans other teams i think that in some ways that implies actions carried out by fans of other teams which have received press (ie throwing batteries at jd drew, attacking chad krueter at wrigley, etc.). maybe i read a little bit too much into it. it wasnít my intent to suggest that heíd actually said that about me only that that was the manner in which some people are discussing it.

i assure you iím not as offended by this as it probably seems. i do feel obligated to respond to comments which mischaracterize my statements and lable me as some classless idiot fan. i understand the importance of not taking things too seriously on a message board and i donít really give this board any thought outside of the 20 minutes or so i spend here each day. however, when i am here i donít see the need for people to critisize me as a person instead of my statements. i donít think its appropriate to call someone an idiot on a message board just because you disagree with someone. does it bother me on a personal level? no. but the principle is enough for me to respond.

Jjav829
11-21-2002, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1


I am not trying to sound like a jerk here, but seriously, can you start capitalizing the first letter in every sentence and using that enter button a little more so your text is not just one giant block of letters?

I do not want to sit here and stare at one giant block of letters and try to pick out the periods. You are getting better on the paragraphs thing but still please capitalize. It would help a lot. Thank you.

guillen4life13
11-21-2002, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Im not trying to sound like a jerk here, but seriously, can you start capitalizing the first letter in every sentence and using that enter button a little more so your text isn't just one giant block of letters?

I don't want to sit here and stare at one giant block of letters and try to pick out the periods. Your getting better on the paragraphs thing but still please capitalize. It would help a lot. Thank you.

no offense, but this is an internet message board, and most people i know (not just kids... my parents and everyone i correspond with by email) don't capitalize in their messages. look at it almost like a chat room... people don't capitize in those unless it's to emphasize a point.



now, in your defense, using the enter button every once in a while would make posts much easier to read.

Jjav829
11-21-2002, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
no offense, but this is an internet message board, and most people i know (not just kids... my parents and everyone i correspond with by email) don't capitalize in their messages. look at it almost like a chat room... people don't capitize in those unless it's to emphasize a point.



now, in your defense, using the enter button every once in a while would make posts much easier to read.

Thats because this is different from a chat room. In a chat room you are typing a line. Here you are typing a lot more. When your typing so many lines you use Capital letters to start your sentence so the start of the sentence stands out from the end of the previous sentence.

I know Im not the only one here who finds it annoying as I have seen it suggested before. If he does nott want to that is fine. But I would like to read what he says and see what points he makes. But I am not going to read one giant block of letters.

As for your emails, I do not know who you talk to but everyone I talk to has mastered the art of a capital letter starting a setence and a period ending the sentence. Go write a paper without capital letters for a college professor (hell even in high school) and see what kind of grade you get.

Soxheads
11-21-2002, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Thats because this is different from a chat room. In a chat room your typing a line. Here your typing a lot more. When your typing so many lines you use Capital letters to start your sentence so the start of the sentence stands out from the end of the previous sentence.

I know Im not the only one here who finds it annoying as I've seen it suggested before. If he doesn't want to thats fine. But I would like to read what he says and see wants points he makes. But Im not going to read one giant block of letters.

As for your emails, I don't know who you talk to but everyone I talk to has mastered the art of a capital letter starting a setence and a period ending the sentence. Go write a paper without capital letters for a college professor (hell even in high school) and see what kind of grade you get.

While we are on the language lesson, you should be using the word "you're", not "your" in place of "you are".

Jjav829
11-21-2002, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Soxheads
While we are on the language lesson, you should be using the word "you're" not "your" in place of "you are".

Thank you spineless one. I will go back and edit that and make sure that I use you are in the future since I really should not use contractions at all, all in an effort to make you happy.

Daver
11-21-2002, 05:41 PM
Is this the WSI version of English 101?

Just checking,in caseI have give out a test next week.


:)

Soxheads
11-21-2002, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Thank you spineless one. I will go back and edit that and make sure that I use you are in the future since I really should not use contractions at all, all in an effort to make you happy.

How is this nitpicking any different than your nitpicking?

Jjav829
11-21-2002, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by daver
Is this the WSI version of English 101?

Just checking,in caseI have give out a test next week.


:)

Actually 105. :smile:


BTW, when is the next essay due? :)

Soxheads
11-21-2002, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by daver
Is this the WSI version of English 101?

Just checking,in caseI have give out a test next week.


:)

Ther should be a space after that comma!

Jjav829
11-21-2002, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by Soxheads
How is this nitpicking any different than your nitpicking?

Well if my usage of "your" instead of "you are" gives you troubles while reading my messages then I will try to stop using "your" when I should use "you are".

I did not say he had to. I just asked him to capitalize, because I know others have a problem reading those types of messages. For that matter I did not make any comments about your messages.

Soxheads
11-21-2002, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Well if my usage of "your" instead of "you are" gives you troubles while reading my messages then I will try to stop using "your" when I should use "you are".

I did not say he had to. I just asked him to capitalize, because I know others have a problem reading those types of messages. For that matter I did not make any comments about your messages.

Well, it's just one of my pet peeves.

Daver
11-21-2002, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Actually 105. :smile:


BTW, when is the next essay due? :)

Monday Morning,first thing.

A 10,000 word dissertation on J.Krishnamurti's "We are the World"

Enjoy!

Jjav829
11-21-2002, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by daver
Monday Morning,first thing.

A 10,000 word dissertation on J.Krishnamurti's "We are the World"

Enjoy!

Sounds good! I'll get right on it!

pudge
11-21-2002, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
well i assumed since iím the one that has about a dozen posts in this thread (i only counted one person agreeing with me maybe missed the rest) and the one who started the thread that i was being addressed. if thatís incorrect he can feel free to correct me and iíll retract my entire post.

he says that in light of the ďwrongĒ comments made in this thread (referring specifically to my comments) that he can see that the sox have idiotic fans like other teams. it was someone else in a different post that referred to ďthe fans in philadelphiaĒ. some of it was obviously an exageration on my part if going only by the comments he made in his post but what i said was in line with what others have posted in this thread and its pretty undeniable that he refers to me as immature and an idiot and by referring to the fans other teams i think that in some ways that implies actions carried out by fans of other teams which have received press (ie throwing batteries at jd drew, attacking chad krueter at wrigley, etc.). maybe i read a little bit too much into it. it wasnít my intent to suggest that heíd actually said that about me only that that was the manner in which some people are discussing it.

i assure you iím not as offended by this as it probably seems. i do feel obligated to respond to comments which mischaracterize my statements and lable me as some classless idiot fan. i understand the importance of not taking things too seriously on a message board and i donít really give this board any thought outside of the 20 minutes or so i spend here each day. however, when i am here i donít see the need for people to critisize me as a person instead of my statements. i donít think its appropriate to call someone an idiot on a message board just because you disagree with someone. does it bother me on a personal level? no. but the principle is enough for me to respond.

I appreciate that you've stood up for yourself against a swarm of criticism, and I did not intend to imply that you are a lousy fan or would personally injure any player. I DO think there's a degree of immaturity in how you feel, but I'm glad that you're (<--I did it right, but that's cause I'm an NU J-Grad ;) a passionate Sox fan, we need as many as we can get. I don't know your age, but age is relative, all I can say is that when I was younger I probably would have felt the same as you, but now winning sports games is just not big enough for me to want to see some great athlete like Prior get injured, or anybody else for that matter. Sorry I got riled up from this thread, just had to throw my opinion out there, but I appreciate all opinions. Thanks.

guillen4life13
11-21-2002, 06:29 PM
This is not school... I've had enough of school for today as it is... and I have enough homework to do, in which I use correct capitalization.

Not once in the past 6 years have I used incorrect capitalization (unless it was a typographical error) in school unless it was mixing up words like "Earth" with "earth" (because both mean different things in different contexts). Your implications that I am a bad student lack foundation.

I don't mean to sound stuck up, but ever since I started school, I have been one of the top students in my class, and highly regarded by teachers for the intellect they see, and have seen in me in the past. My peers look to me to correct their english papers for spelling, gramatical, and punctuation errors. Let me just say that I don't consider myself stupid. Throughout my time in the public school system of Oak Park, (which is not exactly known as a town full of dumb students in its school system) I have had one of the top 5 report card ranks of my grade.

Therefore, I do not appreciate you making hasty assumptions about my schoolwork, as that is not what these boards are meant for.

It may be an annoyance to a few of you, but to my knowledge, most people on this board do not care about capitalization. These boards are meant to display our ideas and thoughts, not use perfect english. If this annoys you, I'm sorry. I refuse to make my posts seem like english persuasive papers. As far as I'm concerned, under these circumstances, capitalization is not important. I am not being (or supposed to be) graded or evaluated on my grammar and punctuation on these boards.

Let us drop the whole english thing before anyone gets angry, because you seem like you are getting frustrated, and I am starting to get there.

btw thanks Soxheads for sticking up for us.

jeremyb1
11-21-2002, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
I am not trying to sound like a jerk here, but seriously, can you start capitalizing the first letter in every sentence and using that enter button a little more so your text is not just one giant block of letters?

I do not want to sit here and stare at one giant block of letters and try to pick out the periods. You are getting better on the paragraphs thing but still please capitalize. It would help a lot. Thank you.

iím working on using more paragraphs. the caps are really hard for me. i type a lot on the internet and i think iíve been typing in lower case letter on the internet for at least five years if not ten. reaching for the shift button seems like so much work when you donít have to so i never really use it unless i absolutely have to. iíll work on using even more paragraphs though to meet you halfway.

jeremyb1
11-21-2002, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by pudge
I appreciate that you've stood up for yourself against a swarm of criticism, and I did not intend to imply that you are a lousy fan or would personally injure any player. I DO think there's a degree of immaturity in how you feel, but I'm glad that you're (<--I did it right, but that's cause I'm an NU J-Grad ;) a passionate Sox fan, we need as many as we can get. I don't know your age, but age is relative, all I can say is that when I was younger I probably would have felt the same as you, but now winning sports games is just not big enough for me to want to see some great athlete like Prior get injured, or anybody else for that matter. Sorry I got riled up from this thread, just had to throw my opinion out there, but I appreciate all opinions. Thanks.

iím willing to admit that to a certain degree it probably is immature but thatís how i look at sports, as fun. i like the fact that its the one area where you can be somewhat unreasonable and emotional and that you can get really pissed at someone just because they like a different team than you do and you donít like the way they go about it. also, i am only 19 but i hope iím this passionate and in some ways petty about baseball for the rest of my life. for me its the only way to be.

Jjav829
11-21-2002, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13

Let us drop the whole english thing before anyone gets angry, because you seem like you are getting frustrated, and I am starting to get there.


Who says that I am getting frustrated? Im just trying to give some advice to a poster. I did not say anything towards you. I am not trying to be Mr. Grammar (or Grammer as some people spell it when they criticize others GrammAr). I am just asking to please try to use a capital letter at the start of a sentence. I COULDN'T care less whether you use commas, apostrophes, etc. I would just like to be able to actually read a post clearly.

Wow, where is Nellie when you need him? :smile:

Daver
11-21-2002, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829


Wow, where is Nellie when you need him? :smile:

Or Cheryl,they form the WSI grammar police.............

Iwritecode
11-22-2002, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
iím working on using more paragraphs. the caps are really hard for me. i type a lot on the internet and i think iíve been typing in lower case letter on the internet for at least five years if not ten. reaching for the shift button seems like so much work when you donít have to so i never really use it unless i absolutely have to. iíll work on using even more paragraphs though to meet you halfway.

Moving your little finger 3/10 of an inch to hold the shift key seems like a lot of work? If you've ever learned proper typing technique it becomes almost automatic. Just saying...

jeremyb1
11-22-2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Moving your little finger 3/10 of an inch to hold the shift key seems like a lot of work? If you've ever learned proper typing technique it becomes almost automatic. Just saying...

well obviously, i was being somewhat faceticious. but its not completely effortless to capitalize words. its certainly easier not to. more than anything i'm just in the habit of not using capitalization in informal settings.

guillen4life13
11-22-2002, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
well obviously, i was being somewhat faceticious. but its not completely effortless to capitalize words. its certainly easier not to. more than anything i'm just in the habit of not using capitalization in informal settings.

also, some people haven't learned correct typing technique (I have, but I'm just sayin).

as jeremyb1 says, this is supposed to be an informal setting.

also, there is another reason that I tend to not use the shift key. my little fingers are both extremely warped, and relatively weak (i've been playing either piano or guitar all of my life... and i kept using the wrong positions for those fingers). Also, my keyboard on this computer is EXTREMELY resistant... so that adds to my problems.